Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Part VI)

[Habs Halifax]

You don’t gonna have Muzzin with what you want a give. You will need to use probably 2 pieces in that category: 1st pick Suzuki Romanov Poehling Brook

I disagree that it takes 2 of Romanov, Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, 1st.

Patch > Muzzin in terms of value and we had one hell of a hard time getting Suzuki. We got lucky with the Tatar circumstance and how they wanted to flip his cap space for a more expensive Patch who they felt produces more. Cost them Suzuki and a 2nd. Finding circumstance like this is very difficult. There are very few NHL GM's who are willing to trade assets like we have at the top.

Juulsen's value is thrown under the bus and most don't understand how good this kid is. He's a shut down type that plays smart and physical game and is NHL ready. NHL GM's don't value him like some of our Habs fans do. Fleury is similar value but I think Juulsen is better cause he is NHL ready.

Ylonen could be a top 3 prospect on 20 NHL teams prospect pool. A Ylonen and two 2nd's would be a very attractive offer to the Kings. Yeah, it hurts in terms of futures but we can afford this. Maybe we can include Olofsson and see if they like him instead of Ylonen. We have plenty of options.

Muzzin is not Karlsson value with 1.5 years left. The 1st and a prospect is a reasonable ask from the Kings. Some Leafs fans are willing to do Liljegren and a late 1st but they keep Sandin. Who has more value? Juulsen or Liljegren? Why are the Leafs able to keep Sandin and dangle Liljegren? Cause they want to keep their best prospect. Habs will to and so will many other teams.

 

[thegoalie39]

I disagree that it takes 2 of Romanov, Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, 1st.

Patch > Muzzin in terms of value and we had one hell of a hard time getting Suzuki. We got lucky with the Tatar circumstance and how they wanted to flip his cap space for a more expensive Patch who they felt produces more. Cost them Suzuki and a 2nd. Finding circumstance like this is very difficult. There are very few NHL GM's who are willing to trade assets like we have at the top.

Juulsen's value is thrown under the bus and most don't understand how good this kid is. He's a shut down type that plays smart and physical game and is NHL ready. NHL GM's don't value him like some of our Habs fans do. Fleury is similar value but I think Juulsen is better cause he is NHL ready.

Ylonen could be a top 3 prospect on 20 NHL teams prospect pool. A Ylonen and two 2nd's would be a very attractive offer to the Kings. Yeah, it hurts in terms of futures but we can afford this. Maybe we can include Olofsson and see if they like him instead of Ylonen. We have plenty of options.

Muzzin is not Karlsson value with 1.5 years left. The 1st and a prospect is a reasonable ask from the Kings. Some Leafs fans are willing to do Liljegren and a late 1st but they keep Sandin. Who has more value? Juulsen or Liljegren? Why are the Leafs able to keep Sandin and dangle Liljegren? Cause they want to keep their best prospect. Habs will to and so will many other teams.

Do not want to pay a 1st for Muzzin would rather get a cheaper version of Muzzin like Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson from the Blues and try and get Schenn when his value is lower he scores a lot of PP goals something Montreal needs and he is not a rental....Blues are a good fit especially if Bergevin is willing to trade someone like Primeau who you do not need with Price signed and Harris and Reilly and a second round pick.

 

[Vachon23]

1st pick + Juulsen could probably interest them but it will take at least a 1st or a premium prospect in the deal

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do not want to pay a 1st for Muzzin would rather get a cheaper version of Muzzin like Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson from the Blues and try and get Schenn when his value is lower he scores a lot of PP goals something Montreal needs and he is not a rental....Blues are a good fit especially if Bergevin is willing to trade someone like Primeau who you do not need with Price signed and Harris and Reilly and a second round pick.

1st is off the table. I agree. But a Ylonen and two 2nd's for Muzzin will stack up very well with any other offer some other GM provides. If they want a more NHL ready asset. Juulsen or Fleury fits. If they want something else. Maybe Olofsson fits.

Habs didn't even get a 1st from our Patch return. Yeah, Tatar is doing well but his trade value was not very good at the time of the trade. They had to retain to unload him and it cost them Suzuki and a 2nd. Why didn't the Habs get the 1st in the sign and trade value return?

I don't care if teams ask for our top prospects. It's unrealistic and no other team is giving a grade A prospect and a 1st. They might get a 1st and grade B but not both.

 

[Runner77]

1st pick + Juulsen could probably interest them but it will take at least a 1st or a premium prospect in the deal

Why would we want to pay this for Muzzin? Too many red flags and it doesn't bring us that much more ahead. I'd rather we muzzle the Muzzin talk and stay the course.

 

[Habs Halifax]

1st pick + Juulsen could probably interest them but it will take at least a 1st or a premium prospect in the deal

When negotiation get down to the wire...

1) Ylonen or Olofsson and two 2nd's
2) Juulsen, 2nd, Ikonen
3) Juulsen, Lindgren, Ikonen

I have full confidence this measures up to any other offer A GM gives. Remember, our 1st is not a late first. Teams like the Leafs will be giving late first and Liljegren who is not trending any better than Fleury. If we offer them a better trending prospect and two 2nd's. It's the same value or more!

But I would be asking to talk to Muzzin in terms of if we can re-sign him. Maybe we can put some conditions on giving them something if he re-signs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why would we want to pay this for Muzzin? Too many red flags and it doesn't bring us that much more ahead. I'd rather we muzzle the Muzzin talk and stay the course.

Muzzin = Petry

That's why. Don't put any value into a player with less production cause the entire team is not doing well this year. Muzzin is a shut down top 4D with offensive ability. Very similar value to Petry. Big body who is strong and can score from the back end. He dramically helps our team D shutdown ability in front of Price and he fits. Weber is 33 and 34 with the term Muzzin has left. Ignoring the Weber window entirely is not smart IMO.

What are your red flags?

 

[Vachon23]

Why would we want to pay this for Muzzin? Too many red flags and it doesn't bring us that much more ahead. I'd rather we muzzle the Muzzin talk and stay the course.

Didn’t say I would do it. But Muzzin would help us. With Muzzin I like my chance vs Colombus or the Islanders and I’m not that scared of Pittsburgh. This being said we need a guy that will be with us for a longtime and that’s not Muzzin

 

[Milhouse40]

This is way out of left field ..... but this is a wet dream ive had about a possible acquisition for the habs. Now like all posts in a trade thread , this is a hypothetical ...... but its also incumbent upon a UFA signing :

All i see is trade proposals involving moving some asset for a meh 4d ld.

What if we were to go really big. Not for the trade deadline but for the offseason :

Carey Price to Arizona
Oliver Ekman-Larsson to MTL

now you can add players aand draft picks swap etc but thats the core of the trade I want.

Wed have arguably the best top 2 pairing in the Nhl with him and Weber , all the while keeping Petry and giving our yound D prospect time to grow without rushing them.

Now this all makes sense if we sign Bobrovsky as a UFA , we can even afford to give him his requested 8.5m a year for 4-5 years. He is also a vezina winner with similar stats playing on a arguably worse team his whole career. Not that he would need to be as good with that defense in front of him....

That could lead us to be contenders for the next 3-5 years... and save 2 million of the price contract , and get a real 1LD .

Any thoughts????

Since you've asked.....it's a giant no for me.
OEL is not worth Carey Price, not even close and the Brobovsky is playing this year, i would have a hard time giving him that much money and i don't think any big UFA goalie is crazy enough to sign in Montreal....in fact it's the last place they would want to come.

 

[Runner77]

Didn’t say I would do it. But Muzzin would help us. With Muzzin I like my chance vs Colombus or the Islanders and I’m not that scared of Pittsburgh. This being said we need a guy that will be with us for a longtime and that’s not Muzzin

Agreed there. Price is prohibitive given Bergevin's stance about not trading futures nor our best prospects. Muzzin is not a long term solution and Bergevin is on record about wanting someone who will be part of the team for many years. There are probably other ways to go that we're not seeing right now.

 

[Mrb1p]

So you are willing to ignore the Price/Weber/Petry/Gallagher/Tatar window AND you also can't predict the future but you prefer to do nothing and wait cause you think we will have a better team in 5 years by selling expiring contracts and letting Weber get old?

Not trying to give you a hard time but do you see my point? Why not try to win now and the future? I'm not saying we should trade our top prospects or 1st round picks.

No. I dont see your point. You live in an alternate reality where this aging core is good enough to contend. Youre a reactionnary fan, like most. You see a bubble team and yoy think "Damn were Stone away from a cup!".

Not only is this unlikely to happen, its also not even a guarantee to happen.

Theres no shortcut to competing.

 

[Vachon23]

When negotiation get down to the wire...

1) Ylonen or Olofsson and two 2nd's
2) Juulsen, 2nd, Ikonen
3) Juulsen, Lindgren, Ikonen

I have full confidence this measures up to any other offer A GM gives. Remember, our 1st is not a late first. Teams like the Leafs will be giving late first and Liljegren who is not trending any better than Fleury. If we offer them a better trending prospect and two 2nd's. It's the same value or more!

But I would be asking to talk to Muzzin in terms of if we can re-sign him. Maybe we can put some conditions on giving them something if he re-signs.

We are talking about a top 2 D-man with a 4m Caphit and a ring. Alote of team will want him and they will have offer with a 1st in it no dought

 

[Habs Halifax]

Petry (1 year + Extension for 4 more years) >>> Muzzin for 1.5 years.

Suzuki (2018) << Suzuki (2019). No team is trading this type of value. Vegas miscalculated how good he was pre-trade. Remember they traded him right after camp where they got a good look at him. Maybe we make a similar mistake in trading Ylonen? It's possible but we are strong on wing and we need help at LD (now and in the future). I think we can re-sign Muzzin cause I believe we would be trending well and he would like to stay.

Tatar (Summer of 2018) <<< Tatar (2019)

We didn't even get 1st with Patch.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Not a fan of trading for Muzzin. Would rather go for Fowler.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No. I dont see your point. You live in an alternate reality where this aging core is good enough to contend. Youre a reactionnary fan, like most. You see a bubble team and yoy think "Damn were Stone away from a cup!".

Not only is this unlikely to happen, its also not even a guarantee to happen.

Theres no shortcut to competing.

You do get my point. You just want to make stupid personal attacks cause you disagree. You think I thought Tavares was signing with us 100% cause you think i'm living in dream land and you don't understand that I considered the disappointment factor when they say no. It's very disrespectful to think you know what you are doing as a fan and I don't.

We are competing though right now today. Adding Muzzin and Stone by using our surplus of assets and cap space is very possible. Might not end up happening after we try but I don't support doing nothing cause you think we will be the next Leafs or Lightning instead of the next Canes, Oilers, Coyotes, Flyers, etc.

Remember how the Flyers felt about their future 12 months ago? A good core and a very good prospect pool. Do you think they will be cup contenders in a few years?

There are risks with letting our vets window pass by.

 

[Vachon23]

Petry (1 year + Extension for 4 more years) >>> Muzzin for 1.5 years.

Suzuki (2018) << Suzuki (2019). No team is trading this type of value. Vegas miscalculated how good he was pre-trade. Remember they traded him right after camp where they got a good look at him. Maybe we make a similar mistake in trading Ylonen? It's possible but we are strong on wing and we need help at LD (now and in the future). I think we can re-sign Muzzin cause I believe we would be trending well and he would like to stay.

Tatar (Summer of 2018) <<< Tatar (2019)

We didn't even get 1st with Patch.

Right know I think Muzzin value is higher then Petry. Muzzin is big really steady defensively with experience in playoff and he’s more proven then Petry. That’s what contending team will want.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not a fan of trading for Muzzin. Would rather go for Fowler.

Agreed. But Fowler just signed a 8 year deal and he has a 4 team trade list. In terms of reality on being able to acquire... Muzzin >>> Fowler. If you don't like the price to acquire Muzzin, You won't like the price to acquire Fowler.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Right know I think Muzzin value is higher then Petry. Muzzin is big really steady defensively with experience in playoff and he’s more proven then Petry. That’s what contending team will want.

NO... Petry has more term left and is producing more. Arguably Petry is worth more. If you ask me if I would trade them straight up, I'd say no. If you subtract term, Petry = Muzzin.

People devalue Petry cause of who he was when he was 25 or 26. Over the last 3+ seasons, Petry has increased his production and value over and over. He's on pace for a monster season this year two.

 

[Vachon23]

Agreed. But Fowler just signed a 8 year deal and he has a 4 team trade list. In terms of reality on being able to acquire... Muzzin >>> Fowler. If you don't like the price to acquire Muzzin, You won't like the price to acquire Fowler.

But Fowler just had 27. In 4 years he will have the age of Muzzin. For Fowler I’m ready to pay

 

[Habs Halifax]

We are talking about a top 2 D-man with a 4m Caphit and a ring. Alote of team will want him and they will have offer with a 1st in it no dought

Petry is a top 4D who is on pace for a monster season with a cap hit of $5.5M and has one more year in term vs Muzzin. Muzzin's ring means nothing. He was not the leader of that cup team. He was a part of it.

Sorry, we disagree here. Petry = Muzzin with play on the ice but based on the extra year in term, Edge to Petry.

 

[Vachon23]

Petry is a top 4D who is on pace for a monster season with a cap hit of $5.5M and has one more year in term vs Muzzin. Muzzin's ring means nothing. He was not the leader of that cup team. He was a part of it.

Sorry, we disagree here. Petry = Muzzin with play on the ice but based on the extra year in term, Edge to Petry.

It’s mean nothing to you but not for GM and would you trade Petry without a 1st pick or a grade A prospect in the deal ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

But Fowler just had 27. In 4 years he will have the age of Muzzin. For Fowler I’m ready to pay

I'd love to acquire Fowler but in the realistic scale based on he just signed a 8 year contract and he has a 4 team trade list. It's 1/10 in terms of probability. Muzzin on the other hand is near UFA and the Kings are trending badly. They are thinking about unloading him. With Muzzin, it's 7 or 8/10 in terms of probability of acquiring.

 

[Runner77]

But Fowler just had 27. In 4 years he will have the age of Muzzin. For Fowler I’m ready to pay

He's signed long term but there are concerns about how brittle he is and how he doesn't hit. I haven't looked into his injury history but it may be something to take into account given that he wouldn't come cheap: Proposal: - Trade Proposal Thread (Part VI)

 

[Vachon23]

I'd love to acquire Fowler but in the realistic scale based on he just signed a 8 year contract and he has a 4 team trade list. It's 1/10 in terms of probability. Muzzin on the other hand is near UFA and the Kings are trending badly. They are thinking about unloading him. With Muzzin, it's 7 or 8/10 in terms of probability of acquiring.

I know the possibility is low. I would personally go after Jonas Brodin or Ben Hutton if we can’t have Fowler

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s mean nothing to you but not for GM and would you trade Petry without a 1st pick or a grade A prospect in the deal ?

The ring Muzzin has is a minuscule factor.

2014 - 2016: Muzzin > Petry

2016-2019: Petry > Muzzin

Petry has proven himself and it goes well past this season. He also has one more year in term