Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Part VI)

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Habs Halifax

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No they weren't lol. Every expert had them out of the playoffs before the season started and were always waiting for the bubble to burst all year. They exceeded expectations all year.

I believe in this core when they are healthy and I said this over and over again well before the season started. If we were to add Muzzin using assets we can spare and going after Stone real hard in the off season while we keep our top prospects? Dam, I'll buy some of that all day long and every day
 

Vachon23

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For me it will depends if Price continue to play like that. If he does you need to consider buying because if he plays like in 2015 you will always have a chance !
 

Habs Halifax

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Honest question based on hypothetical situation which is not a massive stretch...

- We acquire Muzzin using assets like our 2nd's, Ylonen, Olofsson, Juulsen, Fleury, Ikonen, Lindgen
- We sign Stone for 7 years at $8M. We do have a solid core and are trending well.. he could consider it.
- We keep our top prospects in Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau and hopefully Ylonen.

Why can't we try to win now with Weber's window and the term we have left with Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault? Does these moves greatly affect our future? Not really
 

Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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For me it will depends if Price continue to play like that. If he does you need to consider buying because if he plays like in 2015 you will always have a chance !

Don't worry about Price. He's only 31 and will be very good if he can stay healthy. When Price is Healthy and we focus on a good team D in front of him, it results in what you have been seeing since Dec 1st or when Weber came back. Just imagine the impact of adding a top 4D in Muzzin to the mix. And Romanov soon to come.

Price is good man. People have thrown him under the bus way too much. And he still likes it here in Montreal. Lets support him.
 

yianik

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Jun 30, 2009
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What am I missing ?

I think Muzzin is quite a good player. He also has this season and next before he is a UFA . At that time he is 31 years old.

Are we contending for a Cup this year or next? I say no. Someone thinks differently ? If yes, well okay, lol. So if no ?

Sure we could possibly resign him, I would think 5 or 6 years would be contract length, so we would have him until he is 36 or 37. Gee. Great.

Or we trade him at the next TDL ? Well why get him for just this year ? Or we dont trade him and lose him for nothing, just to get knocked out early in tje post season?

Someone please explain why it makes sense to get Muzzin ?
 

Milhouse40

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Aug 19, 2010
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Yeah, but not touching them doesn't mean permanently. And certainly, it doesn't mean they're expected to become "stars" as your post stated.

Point is, we're an organization that is lacking in quality organizational depth. Why not amass quality disposable organizational depth so that eventually, we can have those trading chips that can tilt the balance between a deal getting done on a player we really want vs. losing out.

I'd like to see us stay the course until after next summer's shopping is done. Ideally we'd need to see these players reach the AHL at least, to see what we really have and then decide if their expected ceiling is likely to be met or not.

Except for one position (Left hand D) i think next summer it will already be the case.

Let's say Poehling and/or Suzuki and/or Brook makes the team next year......Bergevin will have to make a trade for each of those players who wants a spot. No way around it.

Just right now.
Weber is playing well
Petry is playing well
Benn is playing well.

You want to promote Juulsen, have to trade one of the other first. Imagine if Brook is terribly at next camp.
Even Hudon right now has no place with 2 forwards out of the line-up.
Of course, we'll have to wait and see before rushing anything, but it's coming pretty fast.
 

ZUKI

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nhlfan9191

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Just to be fair....Yes we are in a wildcard spot...but only because we're in the best division in the NHL.
We would be fighting for 1st place of our Division if we were in the Metropolitan.....and in the west, AVS are 3rd in their division with only 50 points, Habs have 59.

So the West is weaker this year? We have to play the east to get to the West in the finals so I’m not sure why that’s relevant. No disrespect.
 

John B

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Nov 19, 2016
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What am I missing ?

I think Muzzin is quite a good player. He also has this season and next before he is a UFA . At that time he is 31 years old.

Are we contending for a Cup this year or next? I say no. Someone thinks differently ? If yes, well okay, lol. So if no ?

Sure we could possibly resign him, I would think 5 or 6 years would be contract length, so we would have him until he is 36 or 37. Gee. Great.

Or we trade him at the next TDL ? Well why get him for just this year ? Or we dont trade him and lose him for nothing, just to get knocked out early in tje post season?

Someone please explain why it makes sense to get Muzzin ?
Agreed.

I don't think the Habs would trade him. Habs would use him as an internal rental. I can't remember the last time the Habs were in a playoff spot (which they most likely will be next year) and traded away a key piece of their team because they couldn't resign him. It would've been nice 2 years ago if they would have though (Radulov and Markov).

I don't have a problem with improving the LD. I'd be willing to give up any prospect, pick, or player, but only if the player we were getting back was young. Like 25 or younger. Otherwise I would just wait for July 1st and go after Gardiner. Leafs aren't going to be able to afford him, so it's likely he hits the market. He's not as good as Muzzin, but he improves the left side and we give no compensation for it. With or without Muzzin, we lose in the playoffs. Unfortunately LD isn't the only hole on this roster that needs to be filled to put us "over the top".

I would like to say in all sincerity that I like enthusiasm of those who think we have a shot though. It's nice to know that there are some "glass half full" Habs fans out there. Hope you guys are right and we win. It will be the best tasting crow that I've ever had.
 

nhlfan9191

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Aug 4, 2010
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Well, Muzzin is worth what he is worth. You have to give to get. You can prefer not to make any moves and I get that. But I think a large % of our fan base things that we will for sure be better than who we are today in 5 years. I'm not so sure I think this.

Calculated risks. That's what it comes down to. Once you agree on a trade base for Muzzin, you ask for permission to talk to him and see how excited he is to play for the Habs and our team core. Ask him that if he was a UFA this off season, what would you be willing to sign for. If the conversation goes well, it give you confidence you have ability to extend him and you do extend him after July 1st if the deal fits for both sides.

That’s where we disagree. And not a bad thing on you either. You’re willing to run off adrenaline. I’m not. Id be building something bigger or atleast try. No 7th-8th seed will fool me after 25 years of us failing doing the same thing with a hot goalie every year or so. Collect assets. Enough of this crap with being average. We aren’t winning a cup this way.
 

yianik

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Agreed.

I don't think the Habs would trade him. Habs would use him as an internal rental. I can't remember the last time the Habs were in a playoff spot (which they most likely will be next year) and traded away a key piece of their team because they couldn't resign him. It would've been nice 2 years ago if they would have though (Radulov and Markov).

I don't have a problem with improving the LD. I'd be willing to give up any prospect, pick, or player, but only if the player we were getting back was young. Like 25 or younger. Otherwise I would just wait for July 1st and go after Gardiner. Leafs aren't going to be able to afford him, so it's likely he hits the market. He's not as good as Muzzin, but he improves the left side and we give no compensation for it. With or without Muzzin, we lose in the playoffs. Unfortunately LD isn't the only hole on this roster that needs to be filled to put us "over the top".

I would like to say in all sincerity that I like enthusiasm of those who think we have a shot though. It's nice to know that there are some "glass half full" Habs fans out there. Hope you guys are right and we win. It will be the best tasting crow that I've ever had.

I am not knowledgeable on Fowler as last I thought he was a very good D man. If he still is, and it is largely the system put in place by the awful Randy Carlyle, then he is the type of guy that would make sense.

He is a fast skating puck pushing D man who just turned 27 and has 7 years left after this year, meaning he is 34 when the contract ends.

So given our youth the time left on his deal covers when we hopefully have an emergence of some real good players, and possibly are contenders. Adding him would also allow us to move Petry in a year or two as his contract ends in 2021.

So in.my view, it makes a lot more sense to pay more and get Fowler, than pay anything to get Muzzin, simply because of when we may have a real top team.
 

John B

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Would you do it? I'm undecided.

Nurse and Puljujarvi
for
Gallagher, 2019 2nd, Reilly
This one is starting to grow on me a little bit. I know I originally opposed it, but I'm kind of undecided as well now. I would prefer to replace Gallagher with Tatar (since he's a bit older and has a higher cap hit). Unfortunately, Tatar is also doing well for us. So tough call. Nurse would be awesome to add and he's only 23. Getting him and then adding Gardiner on July 1st, and your LD is set.
 
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Mario Lemieux fan 66

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That’s where we disagree. And not a bad thing on you either. You’re willing to run off adrenaline. I’m not. Id be building something bigger or atleast try. No 7th-8th seed will fool me after 25 years of us failing doing the same thing with a hot goalie every year or so. Collect assets. Enough of this crap with being average. We aren’t winning a cup this way.

What are you suggesting ? How many years from now would you try to contend ? With Price and Weber you should try to win in the next 3 years after that they might decline. If you trade Petry, Tatar, Benn, Byron and Shaw this year, habs would not contend in the next 3 years. So what are you guys proposing ? A scorched earth rebuild with Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar, Byron, Shaw all traded ?
 

Milhouse40

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So the West is weaker this year? We have to play the east to get to the West in the finals so I’m not sure why that’s relevant. No disrespect.

None taken....and that's true but that's also the bestplace to finish would be 1st wildcard spot and face teams in the metro division.....not that i think we would beat all of them but a better chance than Tampa.
 

John B

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Nov 19, 2016
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What are you suggesting ? How many years from now would you try to contend ? With Price and Weber you should try to win in the next 3 years after that they might decline. If you trade Petry, Tatar, Benn, Byron and Shaw this year, habs would not contend in the next 3 years. So what are you guys proposing ? A scorched earth rebuild with Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar, Byron, Shaw all traded ?
My preference is to see Bergevin build a team that will be a contender for a decade. I'm tired of the short Cup windows. If that means we trade some vets, then so be it. Everybody has their own preferences. For some it's win now, for others it's build now and win later.
 

L4br3cqu3

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Stay the course? I get it. But I think our fan base thinks that we will be better in 5 years than who we are today. There is equal risks to waiting vs adding to the current team core using assets like Juulsen and Ylonen.

Adding Muzzin in a trade using assets we can afford to lose and going after Stone or Panarin with the cap space we have fits Weber at age 33-36 range.

Think about how our team looks like in 5 years. We need to make room for some of our top prospects and some of those vets (Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar) will be gone. Some then reply saying we sell them for more futures. Well that results in more hope and more middle of the pack team core build. We could go 10 more years with the futures strategy and still not be better than who we are today.

Between Juulsen and Ylonen. Ylonen hurts more cause Juulsen can be replaced with either Fleury or Brook. Ylonen is a good piece on wing and aside from Suzuki, it drops off after that. What's your plan? Trade Petry for more futures? Your not going to hit every time with the prospects you think you can steal from the other team (Suzuki for example) and the 1st and 2nd's won't be top 10 picks. There are risks with any plan.

Plan is simple, don't trade futures.

We're not Tampa or Winnipeg, our team isn't stacked up front still, and our farm isn't developed yet.

And we're not only 1 or 2 players away.

We have some successes right now, fine, I prefer to let the team win and lose together, don't mess with the chemistry, and let the kids grow.

In 1 or 2 years, if everything goes as planned, fine, trade surplus 'futures'.

In the meanwhile, trade redundant roster players, not necessarily those who are invaluable right now. Or don't.

Especially don't trade 'futures', we're not there yet.

Patience, don't fall into the same trap we did each time we had a couple shiny picks or prospects.

Build the team, properly.
 

sandviper

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Honest question based on hypothetical situation which is not a massive stretch...

- We acquire Muzzin using assets like our 2nd's, Ylonen, Olofsson, Juulsen, Fleury, Ikonen, Lindgen
- We sign Stone for 7 years at $8M. We do have a solid core and are trending well.. he could consider it.
- We keep our top prospects in Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau and hopefully Ylonen.

Why can't we try to win now with Weber's window and the term we have left with Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault? Does these moves greatly affect our future? Not really

On your point of Muzzin. Depending how many assets we have to give up. I like Muzzin, but not that much. I know he has his detractors, but I prefer Fowler if he is available. Anyhow, back to Muzzin, I’d gladly give up Ikonen and Lindgren.

The rest I’d need to think about but I’d rather hold on to Ylonen and Fleury. To be honest, I’d rather hold on to Juulsen but in this scenario, it will be a headache at the expansion draft (as it sits now, I don’t think Fleury needs protecting).

Think Stone would definitely be worth a look. I think he’d do well under Julien as well. I do like Panarin more, but yeah, that ain’t happening.

Anyhow, I’d throw whatever we can at Karlsson this summer. Yes, he’s a RHD, but he’s worth going after and figuring out how to handle the right side ice time after.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
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What am I missing ?

I think Muzzin is quite a good player. He also has this season and next before he is a UFA . At that time he is 31 years old.

Are we contending for a Cup this year or next? I say no. Someone thinks differently ? If yes, well okay, lol. So if no ?

Sure we could possibly resign him, I would think 5 or 6 years would be contract length, so we would have him until he is 36 or 37. Gee. Great.

Or we trade him at the next TDL ? Well why get him for just this year ? Or we dont trade him and lose him for nothing, just to get knocked out early in tje post season?

Someone please explain why it makes sense to get Muzzin ?
our Two 3rds and Fleury ?

For Muzzin and a 5th?

I’d do it

I’d also like to add a bit of experience and physicality on that fourth. There’s no way I want to enter the playoffs with Agostino AND Chaput.

Zach Smith from Ottawa would certainly interest me!!
 

Habs Halifax

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On your point of Muzzin. Depending how many assets we have to give up. I like Muzzin, but not that much. I know he has his detractors, but I prefer Fowler if he is available. Anyhow, back to Muzzin, I’d gladly give up Ikonen and Lindgren.

The rest I’d need to think about but I’d rather hold on to Ylonen and Fleury. To be honest, I’d rather hold on to Juulsen but in this scenario, it will be a headache at the expansion draft (as it sits now, I don’t think Fleury needs protecting).

Think Stone would definitely be worth a look. I think he’d do well under Julien as well. I do like Panarin more, but yeah, that ain’t happening.

I agree about Ylonen. I’d keep him out of it if I could.

I think we could spare Juulsen and I like him a lot. We just don’t have room for him in our top 4D

I like Fowler more than Muzzin but Fowler just signed a 8 year deal with a 4 team trade list. Muzzin is more realistic IMO. You give your best offer and if it works it works. My keepers are Romanov, Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Primeau. Ylonen as well but if they want him, I consider it.

No idea if Stone or Panarin considers us. But we are trending well and we do have the cap space to go after them.

I’m just not willing to ignore the Weber/Petry/Gallagher/Tatar/Danault window thinking our team in 5 years is for sure better than who we are today
 
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Habs Halifax

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This one is starting to grow on me a little bit. I know I originally opposed it, but I'm kind of undecided as well now. I would prefer to replace Gallagher with Tatar (since he's a bit older and has a higher cap hit). Unfortunately, Tatar is also doing well for us. So tough call. Nurse would be awesome to add and he's only 23. Getting him and then adding Gardiner on July 1st, and your LD is set.

It’s not easy to decide on both sides for sure
 

Habaneros

Habs Cup champs 2010
Oct 31, 2011
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...... yeah ! 3 seasons ago . Now he's the "Flyers unsung hero who just clears waivers ".

because of his salary...no one wants to pay him 2.,35 million....

..Paul Byron was on waivers too..

Remember Devante Smith Pelly in New Jersey?..he was on waivers and got bought out...see him last year in the Stanley Cup..did you see his 7 goals,..?


All i am saying....Weise is a guy who seems to come up big at the right time wearing a Habs jersey......and way better than Byron Frose, Flynn King Martinson..Agastino..Peca Chaput Delarose or Sherback
 
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417

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Feb 20, 2003
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Plan is simple, don't trade futures.

We're not Tampa or Winnipeg, our team isn't stacked up front still, and our farm isn't developed yet.

And we're not only 1 or 2 players away.

We have some successes right now, fine, I prefer to let the team win and lose together, don't mess with the chemistry, and let the kids grow.

In 1 or 2 years, if everything goes as planned, fine, trade surplus 'futures'.

In the meanwhile, trade redundant roster players, not necessarily those who are invaluable right now. Or don't.

Especially don't trade 'futures', we're not there yet.

Patience, don't fall into the same trap we did each time we had a couple shiny picks or prospects.

Build the team, properly.
Exactly...

When we're at a point where we have an excess of futures as tradeable assets, THEN you can make these types of moves.

We're JUST starting to rebuild the depth in the organization's pool of prospects. But we're not quite there yet.

Great post
 

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
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Exactly...

When we're at a point where we have an excess of futures as tradeable assets, THEN you can make these types of moves.

We're JUST starting to rebuild the depth in the organization's pool of prospects. But we're not quite there yet.

Great post

True, but at the same time, with the organization depth we have in some areas today, and the massive cap space, if the right opportunity arises, I'd have no issue with moving some futures for a veteran with a reliable 2-4 years of his peak ahead of him...

1 of brook, Fleury, romanov
1 of ylonen, ikonen, Primeau
Picks... A first and/or 2nds in next two drafts

We could part with a pretty solid package, if it nets us a top 6 fwd or top 4 Dman in that 25-32 range, it could be worth it.

MB needs to be patient AND opportunistic...
 
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HabsWhiteKnightLOL

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Apr 29, 2017
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Honest question based on hypothetical situation which is not a massive stretch...

- We acquire Muzzin using assets like our 2nd's, Ylonen, Olofsson, Juulsen, Fleury, Ikonen, Lindgen
- We sign Stone for 7 years at $8M. We do have a solid core and are trending well.. he could consider it.
- We keep our top prospects in Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau and hopefully Ylonen.

Why can't we try to win now with Weber's window and the term we have left with Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault? Does these moves greatly affect our future? Not really

no , bad idea keep retooling while being competitive.
only make a move if we can find a young lhd to play top pair
build around lockout and expansion draft
 
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