Speculation: Trade Ideas and Free Agency XIII

[Digitalbooya]

Haula and Schroeder both got playoff time and they didn't do much with it, Carter played 1 game in the playoffs, so don't know what you're talking about there.

He stuck with Dubnyk in the next game and we won that series, we weren't going to win that blowout. We didn't come out.

And what the hell would you have done with the lines? The guy gets **** on for mixing up the lines and he gets **** on for keeping the lines the same. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I still can't wrap my head around how Cooke played more games than both of those guys. He provides no offense and above average defense whereas Haula and Schroeder at least have some jump and scoring touch.

After the second or third goal, when the game was still within reach, he failed to pull him from the game. He left him out there to fail and he did.

Oh idk, maybe:

Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Zucker-Granlund-Pominville
Vanek-Haula-Nino
Schroeder-Brodziak-Bergenheim

or

Parise-Koivu-Pominville
Zucker-Granlund-Nino
Vanek-Coyle-Bergenheim
Schroeder-Brodziak-Haula

Anything other than watching your team get pounded while sending the same lines out there again and again.

 

[Spurgeon]

I still can't wrap my head around how Cooke played more games than both of those guys. He provides no offense and above average defense whereas Haula and Schroeder at least have some jump and scoring touch.

After the second or third goal, when the game was still within reach, he failed to pull him from the game. He left him out there to fail and he did.

Oh idk, maybe:

Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Zucker-Granlund-Pominville
Vanek-Haula-Nino
Schroeder-Brodziak-Bergenheim

or

Parise-Koivu-Pominville
Zucker-Granlund-Nino
Vanek-Coyle-Bergenheim
Schroeder-Brodziak-Haula

Anything other than watching your team get pounded while sending the same lines out there again and again.

Because Haula was absolute dog **** this year, everybody knows that. The guy wasn't good and he didn't deserve playing time whatsoever. He still got some.

Schroeder got in a few times and again, he was pretty invisible. He also didn't match up against the Blues very well.

Cooke didn't even have a bad playoff series either, he was productive and wasn't a negative imo. He is a guy that is useful for playoff hockey.

And let's not cherry pick one game. We know what Dubnyk can do and I wouldn't have liked to see him pulled after 2 goals. Sure, maybe after the 3rd. The team wasn't winning that game though especially the way the guys in front of Dubnyk were playing, so who cares?

And you're complaining about his lineups, while placing Bergenheim in there. That guy was useless, c'mon man. You must have forgotten, but he did change up the lines on multiple occasions, nobody played good that series and it wasn't all Yeo's fault. It was the vets. It was the young guys. It was Dubnyk. Nobody played well.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Because Haula was absolute dog **** this year, everybody knows that. The guy wasn't good and he didn't deserve playing time whatsoever. He still got some.

Schroeder got in a few times and again, he was pretty invisible. He also didn't match up against the Blues very well.

Cooke didn't even have a bad playoff series either, he was productive and wasn't a negative imo. He is a guy that is useful for playoff hockey.

And let's not cherry pick one game. We know what Dubnyk can do and I wouldn't have liked to see him pulled after 2 goals. Sure, maybe after the 3rd. The team wasn't winning that game though especially the way the guys in front of Dubnyk were playing, so who cares?

And you're complaining about his lineups, while placing Bergenheim in there. That guy was useless, c'mon man. You must have forgotten, but he did change up the lines on multiple occasions, nobody played good that series and it wasn't all Yeo's fault. It was the vets. It was the young guys. It was Dubnyk. Nobody played well.

You'd have Cooke in over both those guys? Remember when our 4th line used to carry us because other teams couldn't match the quality? The Schroeder-Brodziak-Fontaine 4th line was the best 4th line for over half a season. Fontaine gets injured in game 6 vs STL, is replaced by Cooke and suddenly our 4th line goes to **** and we get swept. Well done.

We'll never know if we would have won that game cause we didn't have a chance with Dubnyk playing shaky as all hell. It was 3-1 with 18+ minutes to go in the 2nd period. If you've been watching these playoffs you should know that a 2 goal lead isn't safe at all, especially with 2/3 of a hockey game remaining.

Do you remember why Bergenheim was brought in? He was brought in because he is a guy that turns it up in the playoffs. In his 3 games he may not have scored but he was generating offense and maintaining pressure. Hard to judge a player when he only plays in 3/10 of the games meanwhile Matt Cooke is playing. And no he did not switch the lines up on multiple occasions. I'm pretty sure he didn't change the lines in game until game 4. Sorry but Yeo is often times slow to react to anything. Not saying we should fire him but he is far from the perfect coach (with PP line problems) that you make him out to be.

 

[Spurgeon]

You'd have Cooke in over both those guys? Remember when our 4th line used to carry us because other teams couldn't match the quality? The Schroeder-Brodziak-Fontaine 4th line was the best 4th line for over half a season. Fontaine gets injured in game 6 vs STL, is replaced by Cooke and suddenly our 4th line goes to **** and we get swept. Well done.

We'll never know if we would have won that game cause we didn't have a chance with Dubnyk playing shaky as all hell. It was 3-1 with 18+ minutes to go in the 2nd period. If you've been watching these playoffs you should know that a 2 goal lead isn't safe at all, especially with 2/3 of a hockey game remaining.

Do you remember why Bergenheim was brought in? He was brought in because he is a guy that turns it up in the playoffs. In his 3 games he may not have scored but he was generating offense and maintaining pressure. Hard to judge a player when he only plays in 3/10 of the games meanwhile Matt Cooke is playing. And no he did not switch the lines up on multiple occasions. I'm pretty sure he didn't change the lines in game until game 4. Sorry but Yeo is often times slow to react to anything. Not saying we should fire him but he is far from the perfect coach (with PP line problems) that you make him out to be.

In the playoffs after the season that Haula had? Absolutely.

The Schroeder-Brodziak-Fontaine line was not the best line for over half a season. It wasn't even together for over half a season, Schroeder played 25 games in the regular season lol. Cooke was also playing games against STL too, so Cooke isn't the reason we got swept.

It could have been 2-1 with the whole game to go, the team did not play well that game and they responded in a helluva a fashion, but let's not give Yeo any credit for that.

I do remember why Bergenheim was brought in, but you want to play a guy that was statistically our worst player after we brought him in for the regular season and scored a single point in 17 games? No. I don't care about past success, it doesn't carry over and it sure as hell didn't carry over into the playoffs. 3 games and a -2. Russo has speculated this might be the last he plays in the ****ing NHL lol, he was garbage. He didn't deserve playing time.

And you've been complaining about Yeo's complacency, but all of these guys were rotating in and out, so again, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[Digitalbooya]

In the playoffs after the season that Haula had? Absolutely.

The Schroeder-Brodziak-Fontaine line was not the best line for over half a season. It wasn't even together for over half a season, Schroeder played 25 games in the regular season lol. Cooke was also playing games against STL too, so Cooke isn't the reason we got swept.

It could have been 2-1 with the whole game to go, the team did not play well that game and they responded in a helluva a fashion, but let's not give Yeo any credit for that.

I do remember why Bergenheim was brought in, but you want to play a guy that was statistically our worst player after we brought him in for the regular season and scored a single point in 17 games? No. I don't care about past success, it doesn't carry over and it sure as hell didn't carry over into the playoffs. 3 games and a -2. Russo has speculated this might be the last he plays in the ****ing NHL lol, he was garbage. He didn't deserve playing time.

And you've been complaining about Yeo's complacency, but all of these guys were rotating in and out, so again, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Responses to the bolded:

1. At least Haula played the majority of the season. Cooke was injured for 53 games and only looks good because of his sky high shooting percentage.

2. You just took what I said completely out of context. Best 4th line for a good stretch of the year. Haula was substituted in for Schroeder prior to his call-up. Didn't Haula play center last year when he did so well? I can remember another Finnish center who didn't play so well when he was moved to wing (Granlund).

3. If you're going to give credit to Yeo for the wins then he damn well deserves credit for the losses. Saying otherwise just makes you a hypocrite.

4. Fontaine and Stewart's injuries were what caused the lineup change! Prior to those he played the same old lineup night in and night out. He watched the PGP line sputter, Zucker lose all his offensive capabilities after the slash, Koivu and Suter fail on the PP constantly (it's a wonder how they scored on the PP!), Granlund sit on the bench during the PP because he can't apparently win a faceoff even though he won 54% or more in 6/10 games, Suter and Vanek (combined -15) get owned because they are either lazy or don't care, and Dubnyk not save a single clutch shot against Chicago. Some of this stuff is on the players and some of it is on the coach. Simple as that.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No coach gets fired because their fans disagree with his lineups. If we stagnate as a 2nd round max team or take sizeable steps back, then it's wide open.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I think anybody watching the Western Conference finals realizes that the Hawks are not a normal team. They have lots of flaws, but I've never seen a team score as many timely goals as that team. Anaheim should have won that series in 5 games and yet it's going a game 7 where I like the Hawks odds.

Yeo had whip the Wild for almost 4 months straight to get them into the 2nd round, and they just didn't have the mental energy to react to Chicago's momentum killing counterattacks.

Yeo could have obviously handled that series better, but the Wild problem is a personnel problem. Where other teams have super stars, the Wild have Koivu, Pominville, and Vanek. Where other contenders have elite goalies, we have Dubs.

 

[Jarick]

If Russo's theories are correct and the Wild trade Spurgeon for Yakupov, they take a big step back IMO. Yakupov may or may not be a 25-goal guy, like a Nino. Which is fine. But we have a ton of questionable 25-goal scorers on the roster. We are stocked at the wing position with mediocre players. You'd swap out a defender who consistently drives play for a guy who historically has been terrible.

And that doesn't address the center position, which is the weakest point on this team. Koivu's a second line center at best who has a pretty clear trend line headed downward. Granlund isn't the electric player we hoped and also seems to be a second line center. Coyle can't win draws and is better suited to the wing. Brodziak is going to walk in free agency and that leaves Haula, who couldn't get into the lineup for half the year.

About the only way I see this team being competitive in the future is to move a veteran like Koivu/Vanek/Pommer or a decent but not great young winger like Nino/Coyle/Zucker for a quality second line center with first line upside.

 

[DANOZ28]

sometimes you have to roll the dice and hope for the best. i really hope the only reason we're considering trading spurgeon is salary cap issues. i like his production and he seems to be a team player with a great attitude.

 

[Spurgeon]

Responses to the bolded:

1. At least Haula played the majority of the season. Cooke was injured for 53 games and only looks good because of his sky high shooting percentage.

2. You just took what I said completely out of context. Best 4th line for a good stretch of the year. Haula was substituted in for Schroeder prior to his call-up. Didn't Haula play center last year when he did so well? I can remember another Finnish center who didn't play so well when he was moved to wing (Granlund).

3. If you're going to give credit to Yeo for the wins then he damn well deserves credit for the losses. Saying otherwise just makes you a hypocrite.

4. Fontaine and Stewart's injuries were what caused the lineup change! Prior to those he played the same old lineup night in and night out. He watched the PGP line sputter, Zucker lose all his offensive capabilities after the slash, Koivu and Suter fail on the PP constantly (it's a wonder how they scored on the PP!), Granlund sit on the bench during the PP because he can't apparently win a faceoff even though he won 54% or more in 6/10 games, Suter and Vanek (combined -15) get owned because they are either lazy or don't care, and Dubnyk not save a single clutch shot against Chicago. Some of this stuff is on the players and some of it is on the coach. Simple as that.

Did I say Yeo wasn't deserving of any criticism???


Not true, Yeo had changed the lineups well before the series against Chicago.

And quit *****ing about the PP that was the leagues best during the playoffs lol. It's irrelevant.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't really think we need to do anything, except draft well, to continue to be competitive. If a potential #1C becomes available, then sure, explore that route, but I'm not really holding my breath on that.

 

[Minnesota]

If Russo's theories are correct and the Wild trade Spurgeon for Yakupov, they take a big step back IMO. Yakupov may or may not be a 25-goal guy, like a Nino. Which is fine. But we have a ton of questionable 25-goal scorers on the roster. We are stocked at the wing position with mediocre players. You'd swap out a defender who consistently drives play for a guy who historically has been terrible.

It's justifiable in my eyes because we likely can't re-sign Spurgeon at the price he's worth. Trading him sooner rather than later allows us to recoop assets, rather than losing him for nothing. Yakupov obviously isn't the ideal return, but he's (theoretically) still got a high ceiling.

 

[gphr513]

And quit *****ing about the PP that was the leagues best during the playoffs lol. It's irrelevant.

The fact that it was the best for a 10 game stretch is kind of irrelevant, to me. And at least one of those PP goals was an ENG to prop that up a bit, maybe 2 I can't remember.

For 82 games it was AWFUL. I think it's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's justifiable in my eyes because we likely can't re-sign Spurgeon at the price he's worth. Trading him sooner rather than later allows us to recoop assets, rather than losing him for nothing. Yakupov obviously isn't the ideal return, but he's (theoretically) still got a high ceiling.

But would you do it this year when you can (likely) get pretty close to the same return after next year?

Also, Edmonton would be beyond foolish to trade Yakupov right now. Either he stays the same, and then the exact same deals will be there next summer; or they keep him and play him with one of RNH/McDavid all year and he significantly ups his value, or he performs at a high level and benefits their team for years to come.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The fact that it was the best for a 10 game stretch is kind of irrelevant, to me. And at least one of those PP goals was an ENG to prop that up a bit, maybe 2 I can't remember.

For 82 games it was AWFUL. I think it's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

They need to knock it off with the 'vets vs. kids' units.

 

[Dee Oh Cee]

The thing that made me mad wasn't completely teh separation of the units themselves...it was the stubborness of not starting the 2nd unit first sometimes when it was completely apparent they were playing better in a game. There's no rule saying #1PP always has to take the first O-zone draw.

 

[Spurgeon]

The fact that it was the best for a 10 game stretch is kind of irrelevant, to me. And at least one of those PP goals was an ENG to prop that up a bit, maybe 2 I can't remember.

For 82 games it was AWFUL. I think it's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

Yeah, I'm talking about the playoffs though. The PP wasn't a complaint for the playoffs and wasn't a reason we lost.

The PP of the regular season needs fixing and it was one of the things that I think Yeo needs to work on as a coach.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The thing that made me mad wasn't completely teh separation of the units themselves...it was the stubborness of not starting the 2nd unit first sometimes when it was completely apparent they were playing better in a game. There's no rule saying #1PP always has to take the first O-zone draw.

If you only have one guy that you're confident to win the draw, then it kind of does. The difference between starting the first 30-40 seconds in the O-zone and probably getting a pretty good scoring chance vs. having to re-enter the zone right away and maybe getting nothing at all.

That said, I don't think it's huge deal, and at the very least, Koivu could've taken the draw and changed right away.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, I'm talking about the playoffs though. The PP wasn't a complaint for the playoffs and wasn't a reason we lost.

The PP of the regular season needs fixing and it was one of the things that I think Yeo needs to work on as a coach.

Switch out the PP practice time for some damn breakaway drills.

 

[NotYou]

For some reason I woke up this morning concerned about trading Spurgeon and wanting to trade Dumba instead. Maybe it's because most the defensemen in the conference finals are expert puck-movers and high in puck possession. And all the other teams offenses are expert counterattackers. Dumba will certainly get better, and he's offense is awesome, but at the end of the day it is going to be more important to have a defensemen that makes very few mistakes and can move the puck up ice without turning it over. That's Spurgeon.

Regardless, I still think Fletcher's top trade priority is Pominville + Dumba/Spurgeon to Edmonton for Eberle/Yak + pick.

The remaining teams also have someone who can score from the blueline. Dumba can provide that much better than anyone else on the team out in the system given a few more years to develop

 

[Spurgeon]

Switch out the PP practice time for some damn breakaway drills.

Hosted by Brodziak.

 

[BigT2002]

I don't see how you bring in Yak and keep any semblance of the lines. That is too many Top 6 guys you're dealing with IMO. This team needs to trade for a good Center, not a winger.

 

[NotYou]

If Russo's theories are correct and the Wild trade Spurgeon for Yakupov, they take a big step back IMO. Yakupov may or may not be a 25-goal guy, like a Nino. Which is fine. But we have a ton of questionable 25-goal scorers on the roster. We are stocked at the wing position with mediocre players. You'd swap out a defender who consistently drives play for a guy who historically has been terrible.

And that doesn't address the center position, which is the weakest point on this team. Koivu's a second line center at best who has a pretty clear trend line headed downward. Granlund isn't the electric player we hoped and also seems to be a second line center. Coyle can't win draws and is better suited to the wing. Brodziak is going to walk in free agency and that leaves Haula, who couldn't get into the lineup for half the year.

About the only way I see this team being competitive in the future is to move a veteran like Koivu/Vanek/Pommer or a decent but not great young winger like Nino/Coyle/Zucker for a quality second line center with first line upside.

Edmonton would be beyond stupid to do that. Yak's ceiling isn't 25 goals lol, it's 40. Guy was good post eakins as well. I agree that adding a winger doesn't do much, but I'd still do that trade.

Last paragraph...why would the other team do that? Would you trade granlund for a pomminville type player?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Did I say Yeo wasn't deserving of any criticism???


Not true, Yeo had changed the lineups well before the series against Chicago.

And quit *****ing about the PP that was the leagues best during the playoffs lol. It's irrelevant.

Then why are you arguing with me? He'll get the criticism he deserves.

Really? You want to provide any proof to that statement cause all I remember is:
PGP
Zucker-Koivu-Stewart
Vanek-Coyle-Nino
Schroeder/Haula-Brodziak-Fontaine

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Spurgeon
Leopold-Dumba

For a lineup post all star break to when Stewart and Fontaine injured themselves in the playoffs.

I love it, you tell me the only flaw with Yeo is the PP. I post that the PP never changed and Koivu and Suter are terrible on the PP and it's wonder how they scored so much in the playoffs... You respond with stop complaining about the PP. Lol, really? If you watched the PP nothing changed but a few lucky bounces. Going 7-23 is a really small sample size to judge. Let's break down the goals

Game 1 vs STL: 2/4
1. Dumba (Spurgeon and Stewart) with a slapper (Wtf is he not doing on the #1 unit Yeo?)
2. Pominville (Parise and Koivu) EMPTY NET power play goal.

Game 2 vs STL: 0/1

Game 3 vs STL: 0/3

Game 4 vs STL: 1/1
1. Spurgeon (Nino and Granlund) - weird, not one player from the top unit...

Game 5 vs STL: 1/2
1. Koivu (Parise and Suter) - wow! It only took the first unit five games and 11 opportunities to score their first goal! (Pominville EN doesn't count for obvious reasons.)

Game 6 vs STL: 0/1

Game 1 vs CHI: 1
1. Parise (Vanek and Koivu) - very weak goal by Crawford not closing his five hole after a rebound nevertheless still counts.

Game 2 vs CHI: 1/2
1. Dumba (Suter and Dubnyk) - still don't know why he's not on the #1 unit...

Game 3 vs CHI: 0/3 in a ONE GOAL GAME

Game 4 vs CHI: 1/3
1. Pominville (Spurgeon and Parise) - Did Yeo finally switch up the PP lines? Too little to late considering this goal happened with under 3 minutes left in the game we were trailing 4-1.

So let's break it down assuming that both units played on every PP (not true for the second unit but bare with me):

1st unit: 4/23 If including EN and when Yeo finally switched up the lines.
2nd unit: 3/23 with way less time.

Complaints: Dumba and Granlund should be on the first unit instead of Koivu and Suter/Pominville/Vanek.

Pominville-Granlund-Parise
Suter/Spurgeon-Dumba

Would be less stationary and more effective.

 

[Spurgeon]

Then why are you arguing with me? He'll get the criticism he deserves.

Really? You want to provide any proof to that statement cause all I remember is:
PGP
Zucker-Koivu-Stewart
Vanek-Coyle-Nino
Schroeder/Haula-Brodziak-Fontaine

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Spurgeon
Leopold-Dumba

For a lineup post all star break to when Stewart and Fontaine injured themselves in the playoffs.

I love it, you tell me the only flaw with Yeo is the PP. I post that the PP never changed and Koivu and Suter are terrible on the PP and it's wonder how they scored so much in the playoffs... You respond with stop complaining about the PP. Lol, really? If you watched the PP nothing changed but a few lucky bounces. Going 7-23 is a really small sample size to judge. Let's break down the goals

Game 1 vs STL: 2/4
1. Dumba (Spurgeon and Stewart) with a slapper (Wtf is he not doing on the #1 unit Yeo?)
2. Pominville (Parise and Koivu) EMPTY NET power play goal.

Game 2 vs STL: 0/1

Game 3 vs STL: 0/3

Game 4 vs STL: 1/1
1. Spurgeon (Nino and Granlund) - weird, not one player from the top unit...

Game 5 vs STL: 1/2
1. Koivu (Parise and Suter) - wow! It only took the first unit five games and 11 opportunities to score their first goal! (Pominville EN doesn't count for obvious reasons.)

Game 6 vs STL: 0/1

Game 1 vs CHI: 1
1. Parise (Vanek and Koivu) - very weak goal by Crawford not closing his five hole after a rebound nevertheless still counts.

Game 2 vs CHI: 1/2
1. Dumba (Suter and Dubnyk) - still don't know why he's not on the #1 unit...

Game 3 vs CHI: 0/3 in a ONE GOAL GAME

Game 4 vs CHI: 1/3
1. Pominville (Spurgeon and Parise) - Did Yeo finally switch up the PP lines? Too little to late considering this goal happened with under 3 minutes left in the game we were trailing 4-1.

So let's break it down assuming that both units played on every PP (not true for the second unit but bare with me):

1st unit: 4/23 If including EN and when Yeo finally switched up the lines.
2nd unit: 3/23 with way less time.

Complaints: Dumba and Granlund should be on the first unit instead of Koivu and Suter/Pominville/Vanek.

Pominville-Granlund-Parise
Suter/Spurgeon-Dumba

Would be less stationary and more effective.

Because it's ridiculous to suggest firing him.

tl;dr the rest

Edit: Oh they're PP complaints. Let's go back to my original post.

And they're all PP related. Easy fixes.

The guy has brought us to the playoffs 3 straight years. He's not going anywhere.

Thanks for reaching an agreement.