Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXVII

[57special]

I'd do that deal. I think that BUF would need a much better player- either Fiala or Kaprizov- coming back. Taking on Skinner and his inflated contract would make for a very bad precedent, as his salary would be a benchmark for our other young players and their agents. Eichel's salary is no problem, as he is an elite C. Skinner....not so much.

 

[2Pair]

For any trade, Buffalo would be looking for:

A young top-6 center
A top pairing RHD
A high end forward prospect
Another high end prospect
1st
Anything else they can get.

The realistic pool that can offer that is quite small. Yes, the Wild do not have tier 1 young centers to offer, but we do have tier 1 RHD and pretty much everything else.

Buffalo doesn't get half of that for Eichel

 

[nickschultzfan]

Buffalo doesn't get half of that for Eichel

I would pay Dumba, JEE, Donato, Boldy, and 1st and feel good about it. Then re-sign Koivu on a 1 year deal.

Fiala-Eichel-Zucc
Parise-Staal-Kaprizov
Greenway-Koivu-Kunin
Foligno-Sturm-Hartman

Suter-Spurgeon
Brodin-Soucy
Hunt-Pateryn/Mennell

Buffalo then adds Cozens to roster and drafts two high end guys in this draft.

 

[Webster]

I would pay Dumba, JEE, Donato, Boldy, and 1st and feel good about it. Then re-sign Koivu on a 1 year deal.

Fiala-Eichel-Zucc
Parise-Staal-Kaprizov
Greenway-Koivu-Kunin
Foligno-Sturm-Hartman

Suter-Spurgeon
Brodin-Soucy
Hunt-Pateryn/Mennell

Buffalo then adds Cozens to roster and drafts two high end guys in this draft.

That lineup looks good, now Zuccarello can finally produce his 60 points with some high end linemates

 

[Digitalbooya]

That lineup looks good, now Zuccarello can finally produce his 60 points with some high end linemates

Being force fed by a 1+ point per game player?

 

[nickschultzfan]

Being force fed by a 1+ point per game player?

Zucc has been bad for Wild, but if we had Eichel, I think he makes a lot of sense as that RW. Eichel will create a bit more space and Zucc can make that extra pass all he wants.

 

[57special]

Zuccarello never made sense for this team.

 

[Webster]

Zuccarello never made sense for this team.

If you want to win you need players of his caliber. But he also needs top level linemates, he can't do it alone. Guerin is fully aware of this, and hopefully he can sign or trade for a really good center. That's going to help a lot. Plus a coach who doesn't hate smaller players like Boudreau did.

 

[2Pair]

I would pay Dumba, JEE, Donato, Boldy, and 1st and feel good about it. Then re-sign Koivu on a 1 year deal.

Fiala-Eichel-Zucc
Parise-Staal-Kaprizov
Greenway-Koivu-Kunin
Foligno-Sturm-Hartman

Suter-Spurgeon
Brodin-Soucy
Hunt-Pateryn/Mennell

Buffalo then adds Cozens to roster and drafts two high end guys in this draft.

That offer isn't even close to what you claimed it would take, and even then it's still too much.

 

[BagHead]

I would pay Dumba, JEE, Donato, Boldy, and 1st and feel good about it. Then re-sign Koivu on a 1 year deal.

Fiala-Eichel-Zucc
Parise-Staal-Kaprizov
Greenway-Koivu-Kunin
Foligno-Sturm-Hartman

Suter-Spurgeon
Brodin-Soucy
Hunt-Pateryn/Mennell

Buffalo then adds Cozens to roster and drafts two high end guys in this draft.

An absolute guess at three seasons from now after that exact trade ('22-23):
Fiala - Eichel - Kaprizov
Greenway - Khovanov - Kunin
Beckman - Sturm - Zuccarello (still a year left after this one)
Parise - Giroux - Swaney/Lodnia

Brodin - Spurgeon
Suter - Menell
Gordeev? - Addison/Soucy

Obviously some trades or signings will be made in the meantime, and this is also assuming nobody gets bought out, so this is certainly wrong, but it really does show off how we need more LD and center depth, but have adequate RD depth. I'm also not huge on the forward depth. Relying on Khovanov, Sturm, Beckman, Grioux and one of Swaney or Lodnia to all make it to the big show is asking a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if more than half of them don't pan out. After these guys the best names among our forward prospects are names like Guskov, Nesterenko, Chaffee, Hentges, Sokolov, Dewar, and Bitten. One or two of those may become long-term NHLers, too, and more than two would be a huge win.




If we don't trade, things don't really look any better:

Fiala - JEE/Khovanov - Kaprizov
Boldy - JEE/Khovanov - Kunin
Greenway/Donato - Sturm - Zuccarello
Parise - Giroux - Swaney/Lodnia

Brodin - Spurgeon
Suter - Dumba
Gordeev? - Addison/Menell/Soucy

We definitely have too many wingers and right defensemen in that scenario, and still not enough centers and left defensemen. After going through this, I'd say I'm comfortable trading away a RD, maybe even Dumba - although I think I'd wait until he bounces back - and trading away a forward, one of Donato or Greenway. I'm less convinced about trading Boldy. I'd be fine with moving him or a 1st, but I don't know about moving him AND a 1st. We have decent prospects now, but we'd need a high percentage of them to pan out in order to not become the next Buffalo. There will be more drafts, and more first round picks, but they likely won't be ready in time to slot into the roster in three years.


I did this whole thing as a thought exercise for myself to see if I like the idea of trading so much value to get a high end center, and... I think I do like it. There are risks involved, but I think the risk of not trading from positions of depth into that particular position of weakness is greater at this time than the risk of actually making the trade is.

 

[2Pair]

Zuccarello never made sense for this team.

Zuccarello made sense until Boudreau got a hold of him. Boudreau turned him into Thomas Vanek 2.0. Asking players to do things that they aren't capable of doing is a pretty easy way to make them look bad.

 

[57special]

Soucy is a LHD, and would be playing LD instead of Gordeev. It is a bonus that he can play a competent RD, but I don't see him there long term.

 

[BagHead]

Soucy is a LHD, and would be playing LD instead of Gordeev. It is a bonus that he can play a competent RD, but I don't see him there long term.

Oh, my mistake. Well, our LD isn't quite as bad as I thought it was.

 

[57special]

Belpedio can also play LD, even though he is RH'ed.

 

[Spurgeon]

Zuccarello made sense until Boudreau got a hold of him. Boudreau turned him into Thomas Vanek 2.0. Asking players to do things that they aren't capable of doing is a pretty easy way to make them look bad.

Zuccarello made sense in the same sense that Pominville and Moulson did. He's an old winger that we overpaid for.

 

[2Pair]

Zuccarello made sense in the same sense that Pominville and Moulson did. He's an old winger that we overpaid for.

$6M in free agency really isn't an overpay for a 50-60 point player. You can argue if Zuccarello is the player that money should've been spent on, but he isn't overpaid.

It is interesting that you mention Pomiville. Another player that got sunk playing with Parise and then fans bitched about him when he was only scoring 45 points from the 3rd line.

 

[nickschultzfan]

$6M in free agency really isn't an overpay for a 50-60 point player. You can argue if Zuccarello is the player that money should've been spent on, but he isn't overpaid.

It is interesting that you mention Pomiville. Another player that got sunk playing with Parise and then fans bitched about him when he was only scoring 45 points from the 3rd line.

No, Pominville pulled a Rolston and got slow and became a soft, turnover machine. His problem wasn't his 45 points. It was that 45 points didn't justify the net negative he was on the ice.

Happens to most older players.

 

[2Pair]

No, Pominville pulled a Rolston and got slow and became a soft, turnover machine. His problem wasn't his 45 points. It was that 45 points didn't justify the net negative he was on the ice.

Happens to most older players.

Not at all. He seemed to have lost some of his finishing ability the last couple of years, but his skating and two-way game were the same as always. The "turnover machine" take is pretty bad. Pominville was always good with the puck

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

That offer isn't even close to what you claimed it would take, and even then it's still too much.

That’s too much for Eichel? That offer would be beaten instantly.

 

[2Pair]

That’s too much for Eichel? That offer would be beaten instantly.

This is pretty much what is said any time there are rumors/discussions about stars being traded. Then once the trade actually happens we get 29 fan bases talking about how their GM should've offered a much better deal than that.

Matt Dumba would be on the short list of best players that would actually be offered for a guy like Eichel. If a RHD is something that Buffalo was really after, then the Wild would have a fair chance.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

This is pretty much what is said any time there are rumors/discussions about stars being traded. Then once the trade actually happens we get 29 fan bases talking about how their GM should've offered a much better deal than that.

Matt Dumba would be on the short list of best players that would actually be offered for a guy like Eichel. If a RHD is something that Buffalo was really after, then the Wild would have a fair chance.

When was the last time an Eichel-level player was traded at 23yo with tons of contract years left? I don’t know what other star players you’re referring to because that never happens. If Eichel was actually being shopped, there are so many teams that would be willing to sell the house for him. There are maybe 5 players in the world more valuable than him right now.

 

[2Pair]

When was the last time an Eichel-level player was traded at 23yo with tons of contract years left? I don’t know what other star players you’re referring to because that never happens. If Eichel was actually being shopped, there are so many teams that would be willing to sell the house for him. There are maybe 5 players in the world more valuable than him right now.

You really need to stop taking everything you read on this website as gospel. Tyler Seguin was traded at 20 years old. He didn't return shit.

Name a RHD that you think is better value than Dumba that another team would actually offer in a trade for Eichel?

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

You really need to stop taking everything you read on this website as gospel. Tyler Seguin was traded at 20 years old. He didn't return shit.

Name a RHD that you think is better value than Dumba that another team would actually offer in a trade for Eichel?

Tyler Seguin is not the same as Eichel. Seguin has never been as good as Eichel.
Hamilton, Seth Jones, Ekblad, Weber.

instead of just telling people they’re way off, why don’t you say what you think an accepted offer for Eichel would be.

 

[2Pair]

Tyler Seguin is not the same as Eichel. Seguin has never been as good as Eichel.
Hamilton, Seth Jones, Ekblad, Weber.

instead of just telling people they’re way off, why don’t you say what you think an accepted offer for Eichel would be.

Tyler Seguin was traded at 20 years of age and had over 60 NHL goals in 2.5 seasons of play. Eichel was 22 before reaching a point per game season, just like Seguin. Not sure what you're trying to say with the list of names>

The bolded seems a little ironic coming from you in this convo? No?

Personally, I think that Buffalo would be looking for a center to be the main piece coming back which would rule out any chance of the Wild being involved. But the formula for these kinds of trades is fairly consistant-

A young high quality NHL'er- Dumba, Parayko, Monahan, Horvat, Laine etc.
A high end prospect- Boldy, Turcotte, Zegras, Byram, Newhook, etc.
A 1st round pick

Anything beyond that would probably be filler or shit to balance out salary.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd do Dumba + Boldy + 2 first round picks without much thought, but I'd agree that if Buffalo ever traded him, they'd probably require a high end center coming back.