Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXVII

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AKL

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I don’t recall hearing anything about a new head coach. Are we going with Evanson or someone new. Has BG commented on this at all?

Well I’d imagine they’ll wait for the season to finish first
 

BagHead

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Perhaps Guerin had something to do with Boudreau finally pulling his head out of his ass? Perhaps the Wild looking like a completely different team when the good players actually got the playing helped Guerin decide who the real problem was?

To give Boudreau any sort of credit for Fiala is beyond ridiculous.

Did I ever say I was giving Boudreau credit for Fiala breaking out? Fiala gets credit for that. I think I made that reasonably clear when I said the players were the ones that deserved the credit for pulling themselves out of it. Same goes for them deserving the credit, if credit is the right word, for when they were playing miserably. He played himself into that 1st line position (and in the early year, his 4th line position), and I already showed above that the ice-time rising wasn't a sudden thing, but gradual. Guerin didn't say to Bruce one day "Play him more, or else-" and that is obvious by the flow of the numbers. Or maybe Guerin did do that and Bruce refused, because there is no sudden jump in ice time that I can see, except between Bruce and Evason by ~1.5 minutes per game. The way the numbers read, it appears Bruce simply started to trust him more as time went on, and Evason clearly trusted him even more than that.

I want to be clear here, you deserve credit for what you do, I deserve credit for what I do, and that same basic rule applies to nearly every situation with this team. I say nearly as a way of leaving the door open for rare exceptions. This, I believe, is not one of those.
 

2Pair

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Did I ever say I was giving Boudreau credit for Fiala breaking out? Fiala gets credit for that. I think I made that reasonably clear when I said the players were the ones that deserved the credit for pulling themselves out of it. Same goes for them deserving the credit, if credit is the right word, for when they were playing miserably. He played himself into that 1st line position (and in the early year, his 4th line position), and I already showed above that the ice-time rising wasn't a sudden thing, but gradual. Guerin didn't say to Bruce one day "Play him more, or else-" and that is obvious by the flow of the numbers. Or maybe Guerin did do that and Bruce refused, because there is no sudden jump in ice time that I can see, except between Bruce and Evason by ~1.5 minutes per game. The way the numbers read, it appears Bruce simply started to trust him more as time went on, and Evason clearly trusted him even more than that.

I want to be clear here, you deserve credit for what you do, I deserve credit for what I do, and that same basic rule applies to nearly every situation with this team. I say nearly as a way of leaving the door open for rare exceptions. This, I believe, is not one of those.
Here's the problem with your argument. Fiala never "deserved" to be a healthy scratch. Fiala never "deserved" to be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes. Parise never "deserved" to be leading the forwards in ice time. The fact that it took Boudreau 50 games to figure even that much out, doesn't make him a good coach. Continuing to put players in roles where they continue to fail is pretty much the definition of terrible coaching.
 

BagHead

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Here's the problem with your argument. Fiala never "deserved" to be a healthy scratch. Fiala never "deserved" to be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes. Parise never "deserved" to be leading the forwards in ice time. The fact that it took Boudreau 50 games to figure even that much out, doesn't make him a good coach. Continuing to put players in roles where they continue to fail is pretty much the definition of terrible coaching.

Well, I can really only say two things to this. First, coaches are human, and so nobody is going to immediately forget the immediate past and give a player playing a good game, or even a string of two or three good games 18 minutes per night, when they had been playing 4th line quality in the games leading up to that. We're risk averse creatures, so I can't expect any coach, so long as they're human, to not be at least slightly risk averse. The second thing I'll say, is that if you think Fiala was playing better than 4th line quality in the first 8 games of the season, you and I were watching different players. He had flashes of skill alongside some truly miserably puck management. Players who are unskilled but good at puck management, and players who are very skilled and bad at puck management end up on the 4th line in the NHL.
 

2Pair

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Well, I can really only say two things to this. First, coaches are human, and so nobody is going to immediately forget the immediate past and give a player playing a good game, or even a string of two or three good games 18 minutes per night, when they had been playing 4th line quality in the games leading up to that. We're risk averse creatures, so I can't expect any coach, so long as they're human, to not be at least slightly risk averse. The second thing I'll say, is that if you think Fiala was playing better than 4th line quality in the first 8 games of the season, you and I were watching different players. He had flashes of skill alongside some truly miserably puck management. Players who are unskilled but good at puck management, and players who are very skilled and bad at puck management end up on the 4th line in the NHL.
You can play the "human nature" card all you want. Guess what it means when you allow personal feelings and bias affect your team? It means you're a terrible coach. The talk about Fiala playing like a 4th liner is just an awful take.
 

BagHead

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You can play the "human nature" card all you want. Guess what it means when you allow personal feelings and bias affect your team? It means you're a terrible coach. The talk about Fiala playing like a 4th liner is just an awful take.

If you can find me a robo-coach that can outperform a human coach, I'll gladly take the robo-coach. Bias is a human trait, and every human has it. And every human acts on it.

I liken it to oven mitts. Say you've got this oven mitt that is made out of great material, and it's just a superior oven mitt, but for one problem: it's got a bunch of holes in it. You also have this oven mitt that is kind of crappy, a bit thin overall, but as long as you take stuff out of the oven fast enough, it doesn't burn you. The one with the holes, when you don't catch a hole, has been awesome, but it has burned you a lot. Now, you're patching up the one with the holes, but it takes time. Until you can be reasonably sure that one with the holes in it won't burn you, you'll only use the ones with the holes sparingly, even though it is the better quality material overall.

Anyway, it seems we have a differing opinion on what is reasonable from a coach. That's fine. Like I said in the first post I made, I left the numbers up to show that Bruce was increasing his ice time. I also said that maybe it wasn't quickly enough to satisfy some people. It sounds like you're in that group of people, and you have every right to be.
 

Webster

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Here's the problem with your argument. Fiala never "deserved" to be a healthy scratch. Fiala never "deserved" to be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes. Parise never "deserved" to be leading the forwards in ice time. The fact that it took Boudreau 50 games to figure even that much out, doesn't make him a good coach. Continuing to put players in roles where they continue to fail is pretty much the definition of terrible coaching.

Exactly why Boudreau was fired.

A couple of examples that I believe was part of Guerin's decision. Boudreau never "included" Zuccarello, who told the media he had zero communication with BB. When the Wild have invested a lot in the player, that's a very serious problem.

Something else I think really irritated Guerin, when Pateryn came back from injury and he wasn't allowed to play because Boudreau had messed up the lineup list. Just unacceptable.
 

Obvious Fabertism

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You can play the "human nature" card all you want. Guess what it means when you allow personal feelings and bias affect your team? It means you're a terrible coach. The talk about Fiala playing like a 4th liner is just an awful take.
He was abysmal to start the season, even worse than he was last year. The turnovers weren't just plentiful but also absurd in the decision making and he clearly needed a wake up call.
 

DemidovSaveUs

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He was abysmal to start the season, even worse than he was last year. The turnovers weren't just plentiful but also absurd in the decision making and he clearly needed a wake up call.
I agree that he was bad at the beginning of the year but Parise was even worse and was still getting 20 mins a night. Zuccarello and Staal were equally bad and saw no reduction.
 

Obvious Fabertism

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I agree that he was bad at the beginning of the year but Parise was even worse and was still getting 20 mins a night. Zuccarello and Staal were equally bad and saw no reduction.
All those players have a long track record to back up playing through a slow start; adjusting to the start of the season and a new team is common for veterans where you reasonably think they will play through it and get back to their usual performance, which they did (Zucc is whatever.) Fiala was still in the development and learning phase where there are still plenty of lessons for him to learn in limited ice time. all 4 of them were detriments to the team at the time, but you have to play someone, so why wouldn't you go with the veterans that have demonstrated the ability to perform as stars for the last 10 years over the guy that spent the last 30 games looking like he doesn't belong in the league? It's a no brainer who sits between those 4 in that context, and revisionist to think anyone would have done that differently.
 

Minnesnota

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From November 1st through the end of the season Fiala had 53pts in 56gp.

Whatever bullshit ya'll spewing is just noise in the face of all that.
 
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P10p

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Imo it just comes down to Bruce allowing his ego and his distaste for Fenton to build a bias and unfair internal judgement among fentons acquisitions.
 

TaLoN

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From November 1st through the end of the season Fiala had 53pts in 56gp.

Whatever bullshit ya'll spewing is just noise in the face of all that.
27 points in 37 games in November through January. (including only 4pts in 9 games in January)

26 point in 19 games in February through suspension of play.

He clearly turned his game up a notch in February and his ice time reflected that for the most part. He averaged 16:36 that month, which includes a 12 minute game in a route over Detroit in which he was rested because they were playing the next night. He went over 18mins 5 times, 19 mins 4 times and even had a 21min game.
 

Minnesnota

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27 points in 37 games in November through January. (including only 4pts in 9 games in January)
4th in points among all players (only 2pts behind Staal/Parise/Suter for 1st place) while being 8th in ToI for forwards.

He clearly turned his game up a notch in February and his ice time reflected that for the most part. He averaged 16:36 that month, which includes a 12 minute game in a route over Detroit in which he was rested because they were playing the next night. He went over 18mins 5 times, 19 mins 4 times and even had a 21min game.
Only 1 of these games was with Bruce as coach.

Your argument sucks.
 
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AKL

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Sabres' Jack Eichel is 'fed up' with losing after Buffalo misses Stanley Cup Playoffs

If there ever was a center to go all in for...

Please Guerin, make it happen!

I wonder what it would actually cost us to acquire him. I don't believe he'll actually get dealt, but I'm curious. I also can't see Buffalo going back into rebuild mode, so I'd imagine they'd want an established top 6 center back. Maybe a trade between Buffalo and Calgary could materialize, Eichel for Monahan++
 

nickschultzfan

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I wonder what it would actually cost us to acquire him. I don't believe he'll actually get dealt, but I'm curious. I also can't see Buffalo going back into rebuild mode, so I'd imagine they'd want an established top 6 center back. Maybe a trade between Buffalo and Calgary could materialize, Eichel for Monahan++
You overpay the best you can.

Dumba, JEE, Boldy, Beckman, this year's 1st and a future 2nd, plus taking a bad contract off their hands.

We should be in a position to outbid 27 other teams. It is those last 2 that may be up in the air.
 

thestonedkoala

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The previous thread stayed locked (don't know why). But I wanted to re-open this because there are some heavy rumors that Jack Eichel is not happy in Buffalo. He signed a monstrous contract, but he has been grumbling he is tired of losing.

Let's say he is on the block, I'd think Fiala/Kaprizov + Minnesota's 1st + Pittsburgh's 1st would be the starter. I'd think a minor prospect (Beckman or Khovanov) might be in as well.

I don't think the question is is Eichel worth it, but what is the Wild willing to part with if he is on the block?
 

P10p

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The previous thread stayed locked (don't know why). But I wanted to re-open this because there are some heavy rumors that Jack Eichel is not happy in Buffalo. He signed a monstrous contract, but he has been grumbling he is tired of losing.

Let's say he is on the block, I'd think Fiala/Kaprizov + Minnesota's 1st + Pittsburgh's 1st would be the starter. I'd think a minor prospect (Beckman or Khovanov) might be in as well.

I don't think the question is is Eichel worth it, but what is the Wild willing to part with if he is on the block?

If we could turn a 1st, Granlund and Zucker into Eichel and Addison.....

I would definetly throw a Beckman or Khovanov on top to make it happen.
 

Minnesnota

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Dumba - Kunin - Khovanov - Rask + 2020 1st + 2021 1st

for

Eichel + Skinner

Buffalo probably says no but getting rid of Skinner's contract has to be on their mind.

We'd have to move Parise without retaining or we'd be close to f***ed.
 

thestonedkoala

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Dumba - Kunin - Khovanov - Rask + 2020 1st + 2021 1st

for

Eichel + Skinner

Buffalo probably says no but getting rid of Skinner's contract has to be on their mind.

We'd have to move Parise without retaining or we'd be close to f***ed.

I'd think that Buffalo would pass. Kunin + Khovanov + Rask is very meh. Dumba is the biggest piece. I'd think Kaprizv or Fiala would be the main piece.
 

BagHead

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Heavy prices being listed here. I'm not saying I think they're wrong, just heavy. I'd hate to remove the top talents from our team and our top prospects and end up in the exact situation Buffalo is in right now, having one really good center and a team built around him that isn't good. Who knows though, maybe it would turn out differently here.
 

thestonedkoala

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Heavy prices being listed here. I'm not saying I think they're wrong, just heavy. I'd hate to remove the top talents from our team and our top prospects and end up in the exact situation Buffalo is in right now, having one really good center and a team built around him that isn't good. Who knows though, maybe it would turn out differently here.

Buffalo is a weird team; I feel like Minnesota is ran better, but that's just a feeling. Buffalo could turn it around, but they are stuck in Florida mode.
 

nickschultzfan

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For any trade, Buffalo would be looking for:

A young top-6 center
A top pairing RHD
A high end forward prospect
Another high end prospect
1st
Anything else they can get.

The realistic pool that can offer that is quite small. Yes, the Wild do not have tier 1 young centers to offer, but we do have tier 1 RHD and pretty much everything else.
 
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