Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXVI

[Bazeek]

Isn’t the knock on Monahan is that some believe he’s not a true center?

That's kind of the knock on all of these guys, even Trocheck who's played there for multiple seasons now.

Nylander worries me as a potentially serious case RNH Syndrome: a pretty good 2C, but some of his more impressive numbers have come from powerplay production and time spent on the wing next to an incredibly potent offensive center. I'm not against making a move for a good 2C, but I'm wary of paying first-line prices for one.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

That's kind of the knock on all of these guys, even Trocheck who's played there for multiple seasons now.

Nylander worries me as a potentially serious case RNH Syndrome: a pretty good 2C, but some of his more impressive numbers have come from powerplay production and time spent on the wing next to an incredibly potent offensive center. I'm not against making a move for a good 2C, but I'm wary of paying first-line prices for one.

IMO, Nylander is not a C at all , a very skilled RW which isn't a bad thing but Wild need C's

 

[Bazeek]

That's kind of the knock on all of these guys, even Trocheck who's played there for multiple seasons now.

Nylander worries me as a potentially serious case RNH Syndrome: a pretty good 2C, but some of his more impressive numbers have come from powerplay production and time spent on the wing next to an incredibly potent offensive center. I'm not against making a move for a good 2C, but I'm wary of paying first-line prices for one.

In Nylander's defense it looks like I was wrong about the powerplay production. He's done a lot of damage 5v5 over the last three seasons.

 

[Minnesota]

I don't understand why people covet Trocheck? Because he's a true center? Florida fans willingly admit he's not the same player since his ankle injuries.

Give me Domi or Nylander over Trocheck any day.

I don't see Calgary realistically trading Monahan.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't understand why people covet Trocheck? Because he's a true center? Florida fans willingly admit he's not the same player since his ankle injuries.

Give me Domi or Nylander over Trocheck any day.

I don't see Calgary realistically trading Monahan.

Fiala struggled every bit as long after his leg injury.

 

[Minnesota]

Fiala struggled every bit as long after his leg injury.

Fiala was 22 and Trocheck is 26.

Fiala's ceiling is probably still undiscovered while Trocheck likely averages ~50 points if he's lucky enough to bounce back.

Everyone hated the Granlund for Fiala trade at the time - It was a huge gamble by Fenton. We got lucky.

I don't see that gamble paying off for us with Trocheck just reaching his prime age. The Wild are rebuilding and need younger players.

 

[TaLoN]

Fiala was 22 and Trocheck is 26.

Fiala's ceiling is probably still undiscovered while Trocheck likely averages ~50 points if he's lucky enough to bounce back.

Everyone hated the Granlund for Fiala trade at the time - It was a huge gamble by Fenton. We got lucky.

I don't see that gamble paying off for us with Trocheck just reaching his prime age. The Wild are rebuilding and need younger players.

@Bazeek posted some stats the other day that already show his points 5v5 are roughly the same as before injury... but he's getting less power play time and lesser usage in the lineup. With better usage and more PP time again, he is likely to see a bounce back.

Also, 26 is approaching a player's prime age, he's not some grizzled old man like Koivu that doesn't heal.

 

[Bazeek]

I do think Trocheck's getting scapegoated a little by a very frustrated Florida fanbase. His injury's part of it, but his 5v5 numbers don't seem to be all that affected.

Not that I'm looking to jump on him as a target, but I think his numbers are likely to go up here while Nylander's are likely to go down.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Nylander
Monahan
Domi
Trocheck

 

[Minnesota]

@Bazeek posted some stats the other day that already show his points 5v5 are roughly the same as before injury... but he's getting less power play time and lesser usage in the lineup. With better usage and more PP time again, he is likely to see a bounce back.

Also, 26 is approaching a player's prime age, he's not some grizzled old man like Koivu that doesn't heal.

Okay - So best case scenario we trade Brodin or Dumba for Trocheck and he bounces back to score 50-60 points per season.

Age-wise, Brodin for Trocheck is a lateral move. A Dumba for Trocheck trade makes our already old team older.

Domi and Nylander are both younger and put up similar numbers to Trocheck. They also have that Fiala-esque upside to produce even more than Trocheck.

 

[TaLoN]

Okay - So best case scenario we trade Brodin or Dumba for Trocheck and he bounces back to score 50-60 points per season.

Age-wise, Brodin for Trocheck is a lateral move. A Dumba for Trocheck trade makes our already old team older.

Domi and Nylander are both younger and put up similar numbers to Trocheck. They also have that Fiala-esque upside to produce even more than Trocheck.

I would do Brodin for Trocheck, I would absolutely NOT do Dumba for any of them. Selling Dumba now is selling low, we will regret it if/ when Dumba bounces back.

Again, I think Nylander is a winger through and through. I think Domi is worth the price of Brodin as is Trocheck. Though Florida likely adds a second piece.

 

[nstarjim]

I like trocheck if borgstrom is coming with him. A lot less if not.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm a lot more comfortable giving Domi his next contract at 25 than I am Trocheck at 29.

I'm also a lot more comfortable giving Brodin his next contract at 28 than I am Dumba at 29.

I think that the Nylander 'not a center' thing is overblown, and he's only an NHL winger by circumstance. He was a center all the way up through the AHL and into 22 NHL games a rookie (producing at a 48 point per 82 game pace). He was moved to wing the next year because they drafted Matthews and already had Kadri and Bozak on the roster as veteran centers.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I would do Brodin for Trocheck, I would absolutely NOT do Dumba for any of them. Selling Dumba now is selling low, we will regret it if/ when Dumba bounces back.

Again, I think Nylander is a winger through and through. I think Domi is worth the price of Brodin as is Trocheck. Though Florida likely adds a second piece.

What kind of center do you think we could get for Dumba if he bounced back to a 15 goal, 50 point player next year?

 

[TaLoN]

What kind of center do you think we could get for Dumba if he bounced back to a 15 goal, 50 point player next year?

I think we'd have a shot at a real deal young potential #1 prospect center in a package. Someone of Zegras calibur if Dumba was carrying full value.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think we'd have a shot at a real deal young potential #1 prospect center in a package. Someone of Zegras calibur if Dumba was carrying full value.

So a 25 year old with a 70+ point season as a center is selling low, and a 20 year old with 0 NHL games is selling high? And that's aside from the idea that Anaheim needs a future #1 center just as bad as we do.

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

Fiala struggled every bit as long after his leg injury.

I keep hearing Fiala’s injury being brought up compared to Trocheck. Didn’t Fiala have a career high 50 point season after his injury?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I keep hearing Fiala’s injury being brought up compared to Trocheck. Didn’t Fiala have a career high 50 point season after his injury?

Yep.

 

[TaLoN]

So a 25 year old with a 70+ point season as a center is selling low, and a 20 year old with 0 NHL games is selling high? And that's aside from the idea that Anaheim needs a future #1 center just as bad as we do.

I mentioned earlier, I don't think Dumba gets us in the Monahan conversation this year anyway without giving up more... that's why his value is low... last year was the year Dumba carried the value for us not to have to add significantly if that's the move we want to make. Don't sell low. You end up having to give up more than just the individual.

I didn't say Zegras specifically, I said a center prospect of his calibur.

 

[TaLoN]

I keep hearing Fiala’s injury being brought up compared to Trocheck. Didn’t Fiala have a career high 50 point season after his injury?

Fiala hasn't had a 50pt season yet. The consensus in Nashville is he was a completely different player before/ after his injury.

He was supposedly one of their best players going into the playoffs in 2017... and a shadow of who he was the next season and a half until he woke up midway through this season.

Unless you think that he was going to perpetually be a near 50pt player and not develop from what he was flashing prior to injury.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Fiala hasn't had a 50pt season yet. The consensus in Nashville is he was a completely different player before/ after his injury.

48 points in 80 games. Close enough.

 

[Prior]

For what is worth, I think I’d rank them as

Nylander
Monahan
Trocheck
Domi

I’m assuming the Wild likely add (something) to get Nylander, a piece comes back with Trocheck, and Domi/Monahan feel pretty straight up pending the defender each team would want from the Wild.

I’m of the opinion of the good Dr. on Nylander’s prospect at center. At the very least, he’s not any less of a “center” than all but Trocheck. Monahan and Trocheck are concerning with how they’re trending and I’m not all that enamored with their overall 200ft game given they lack higher end ability as well. The player Domi is supposed to be in theory (talented, gritty) is a lot better than what I think he’s actually proven and projects down the line.

Nylander’s contract status, although on the higher end, feels a lot more comfortable than all the rest given the uncertainty on how they’ll fit and what they could command and when.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The biggest issue with Trocheck is his age; I don't see this as a one and done thing before Minnesota becomes competitive again. At best, Trocheck may have one or two good seasons when the Wild return to the post-season, however more than likely they'll be searching for another center.

 

[TaLoN]

The biggest issue with Trocheck is his age; I don't see this as a one and done thing before Minnesota becomes competitive again. At best, Trocheck may have one or two good seasons when the Wild return to the post-season, however more than likely they'll be searching for another center.

26 is considered old now? Same age as Brodin.

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

Fiala hasn't had a 50pt season yet. The consensus in Nashville is he was a completely different player before/ after his injury.

He was supposedly one of their best players going into the playoffs in 2017... and a shadow of who he was the next season and a half until he woke up midway through this season.

Unless you think that he was going to perpetually be a near 50pt player and not develop from what he was flashing prior to injury.

A career high 48 points in 2017-18 after the femur fracture in 2017. He didn’t regress until 2018-19. His injury and regression weren’t correlated