Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XLI

[57special]

Honestly, I agree with your take on Addison, but I disagree with the Menell one, simply because I wonder what another AHL year could do for him. He's already torn that league up, and is now doing the same to the KHL. If he's not ready now, he won't ever be.

I have to agree with most here, Greenway has played himself into being protected, so far. Losing Dumba would suck, but I don't see a way that they get to just keep everyone that they want. For all the talk about how we're in a better position for this expansion draft vs. the last one, it appears that we stand to lose just as much this time around.

yeah, you're right about Mennell.

 

[HotDish]

But why would a team trade for either of them, if they know they're going to have to use an additional protection slot? I mean, it's not that hard to see trading away either will also be as challenging.

I think majority of teams do 7-3-1. In this case it becomes easier to trade and protect Greenway. Take Minnesota for example. If you protected 7.

Parise - NMC
Zucc - NMC
Fiala
Ek
Greenway
Sturm
Foligno.

I mean even I was just debating to expose Foligno. You trade Greenway and you got 2 spots you can still protect if you don't care about keeping Foligno.

 

[57special]

100% incorrect. Some Euro and KHL teams were offering NHL out clauses and he chose to play there the whole season.

BG told Mennel take your QO or take X in AHL / X in NHL ..... Pick which one you want period. Mennel had no rights and chose to leave for the KHL. That is exactly what happened.

Woudn't be shocked to see him play over seas next season and then come back as a G6 UFA ( I'm almost sure he would qualify for that )

Nothing you posted contradicted what I said. At the time he made the decision to play in the KHL, there was no certainty that the AHL would even have a season, and sitting on a taxi squad for the Wild is not playing. As is, he's already got 40 gp in the KHL, and the AHL hasn't even started up.
He basically decided to take control of his career, rather than leave it to the whims of forces beyond his control(Covid).

 

[GuerinUp]

I wonder what the rules are for changing positions based on the ED? Say the wild wouldve played dumba as a winger all of this season, could they have claimed he was a RW for instance and gone 7-3-1 and circumvented the ED rules? Just thinking off the cuff here.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

I wonder what the rules are for changing positions based on the ED? Say the wild wouldve played dumba as a winger all of this season, could they have claimed he was a RW for instance and gone 7-3-1 and circumvented the ED rules? Just thinking off the cuff here.

Ouuu that’s a good one, probably half the year.

it’s tricky, we should make the playoffs and bow out in round 1, what do we do at the deadline ? Is it worth keeping Dumba ? Suter would have takers if he would waive, but we’d be locked it at cap recapture, would he waive his NMC to be exposed ? Seattle wouldn’t be wise to take him.

 

[HotDish]

Ouuu that’s a good one, probably half the year.

it’s tricky, we should make the playoffs and bow out in round 1, what do we do at the deadline ? Is it worth keeping Dumba ? Suter would have takers if he would waive, but we’d be locked it at cap recapture, would he waive his NMC to be exposed ? Seattle wouldn’t be wise to take him.

if anyone has a chance at waiving it would be Parise. Seattle would fire their GM if they picked him.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

if anyone has a chance at waiving it would be Parise. Seattle would fire their GM if they picked him.

I think the cap recapture on both makes it unlikely but agreed there.

 

[BagHead]

Greenway has played well 10 games. You cant give up Dumba over him at such a small sample size. Its an easier decision than you all are making it at this point.

That's why I italicized the words "so far". If he plays his current style consistently for 50+ games, it becomes a difficult choice.

 

[GuerinUp]

That's why I italicized the words "so far". If he plays his current style consistently for 50+ games, it becomes a difficult choice.

I still think you protect Dumba instead, you have fiala, kap, boldy, maybe beckman if he pans out as top 6 wingers for the future. Its alot easier to replace a 3rd line winger than top 4 dman

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

It’s still early. If Greenway proves he can be a top 6 player this season, I’d probably waive Dumba. 23yo, top 6 wingers don’t grow on trees and Dumba would free up more cap. The hope is that Greenway doesn’t produce lofty numbers heading into the ED that will never be matched again (See Coyle, Niederietter)

 

[Minnewildsota]

I still think you protect Dumba instead, you have fiala, kap, boldy, maybe beckman if he pans out as top 6 wingers for the future. Its alot easier to replace a 3rd line winger than top 4 dman

I disagree. I think the cap relief we get from them picking Dumba provides the team a lot more flexibility than if they keep him on the books. Soucy could slot into the top 4 and you would really just have to fill out your bottom pair.
You would then not really have to worry about Kap, Ek , or Fiala as far as salaries go and fitting them under the cap

 

[GuerinUp]

I disagree. I think the cap relief we get from them picking Dumba provides the team a lot more flexibility than if they keep him on the books. Soucy could slot into the top 4 and you would really just have to fill out your bottom pair.
You would then not really have to worry about Kap, Ek , or Fiala as far as salaries go and fitting them under the cap

The same thing could be accomplished by trading dumba after the ED and not losing him for nothing. I would argue by keeping dumba and trading him you could gain all that AND fill some of those holes mentioned. Even if you lose Greenway, youd still be in a better position end game. If you lose Dumba and fill the cap space with vets youre ignoring your cup window. If you trade dumba for young players or prospects and lose greenway you align your team more to your cup window.

 

[Minnewildsota]

The same thing could be accomplished by trading dumba after the ED and not losing him for nothing. I would argue by keeping dumba and trading him you could gain all that AND fill some of those holes mentioned. Even if you lose Greenway, youd still be in a better position end game. If you lose Dumba and fill the cap space with vets youre ignoring your cup window. If you trade dumba for young players or prospects and lose greenway you align your team more to your cup window.

Do we think Dumba’s value is that high at this point? We don’t know the extent of the injury yet but let’s say it’s another season ending injury. Is another team going to take that risk on?

 

[HotDish]

The same thing could be accomplished by trading dumba after the ED and not losing him for nothing. I would argue by keeping dumba and trading him you could gain all that AND fill some of those holes mentioned. Even if you lose Greenway, youd still be in a better position end game. If you lose Dumba and fill the cap space with vets youre ignoring your cup window. If you trade dumba for young players or prospects and lose greenway you align your team more to your cup window.

I would argue Greenway is more of a player you want in your cup window. What kind of package do you expect from a d men that has multiple injuries and a 6 mil cap hit? We like to view him as a 50 point Dmen but he certainly hasn't hit that mark recently.

 

[GuerinUp]

Do we think Dumba’s value is that high at this point? We don’t know the extent of the injury yet but let’s say it’s another season ending injury. Is another team going to take that risk on?

Do we make rash decisions and protect a player thats played maybe 10 good games the last few years vs a guy whos been fairly stable and shown more than 10 games of brilliance over multiple seasons? Players get and recover from injuries all the time in the NHL, its part of the game. It was also a freak incident, its not like he was out skating and randomly fell apart. Hes not injury prone.

I am not for protecting Greenway over Dumba regardless of how his season ends. His last 2 were dismal at best, and i would need to see more than 1 shortened season of improved play before i start thinking hes worthy of being protected over a majority of our players.

 

[GuerinUp]

I would argue Greenway is more of a player you want in your cup window. What kind of package do you expect from a d men that has multiple injuries and a 6 mil cap hit? We like to view him as a 50 point Dmen but he certainly hasn't hit that mark recently.

I understand with his Age he may fit in, But wheres he going to play? most likely 3rd line when the others arrive. which isnt as valuable as say by keeping Dumba you can trade him for either a C or prospects or picks to get that C. As of now we only have 1 player that we are expecting to fill that role in the top 6, and unfortunately right now, hes questionable at best. the rest are wild cards. And theres no one next year we need to clear space for to fill that hole, also signing one of those guys Will not align with the cup window very well.

 

[BagHead]

I still think you protect Dumba instead, you have fiala, kap, boldy, maybe beckman if he pans out as top 6 wingers for the future. Its alot easier to replace a 3rd line winger than top 4 dman

If he keeps playing like he is, he's not a 3rd line winger.

 

[57special]

It's too soon to make a decision on Greenway, but if he ends up being a .5-.6 PPG forward with little to no PP opportunities then you probably have to keep him over Dumba. He is not only far cheaper, but younger, and helps fills a need more than Dumba does. On many other teams, Dumba would be the guy you'd keep.

It goes without saying that you'd like to keep both, and the ED is an unfortunate situation.

 

[Spurgeon]

Hopefully BG can get either Parise or Zucc to waive their NMC and then the problems are alleviated. I doubt Zucc waives because his contract looks like it was set-up specifically so that he wouldn't be exposed in the ED. Parise on the other hand I could see as being willing to do so if it meant we could protect Dumba and Greenway.

Trading Dumba might not work out great for us either if Seattle ends up choosing Menell, which I would do if I was Seattle.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Hopefully BG can get either Parise or Zucc to waive their NMC and then the problems are alleviated. I doubt Zucc waives because his contract looks like it was set-up specifically so that he wouldn't be exposed in the ED. Parise on the other hand I could see as being willing to do so if it meant we could protect Dumba and Greenway.

Trading Dumba might not work out great for us either if Seattle ends up choosing Menell, which I would do if I was Seattle.

Why would they choose Menell?

 

[Spurgeon]

Why would they choose Menell?

23 year-old RHD that's one of the top defensemen in the KHL this season and has dominated his two seasons in the AHL. In my opinion, he'd be the best selection out of Foligno, Parise, and Soucy

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I keep going back to the unusual Foligno signing, and Guerin basically saying "we didn't sign him just to lose him".

I think he's already decided on the 7-3-1 route.

 

[2Pair]

Hopefully BG can get either Parise or Zucc to waive their NMC and then the problems are alleviated. I doubt Zucc waives because his contract looks like it was set-up specifically so that he wouldn't be exposed in the ED. Parise on the other hand I could see as being willing to do so if it meant we could protect Dumba and Greenway.

Trading Dumba might not work out great for us either if Seattle ends up choosing Menell, which I would do if I was Seattle.

It might be giving Guerin too much credit to wonder if he thought this far ahead, but if he already knows that Parise is willing to waive his NMC, it would make some sense out of what he did/didn't do this offseason.

 

[DANOZ28]

if we cant trade dumba for at least 2-2nds & 2-5ths minimum then expose him to seattle for 6 mill cap relief. IF i were seattles gm i'd probably pick soucy or mennell so we may not lose him even if exposed.

 

[kegstandbyme]

Since Zuccarello wouldn’t waive for most teams, let’s say he would for the Rangers. Would anyone take a chance on a swap of him for DeAngelo? DeAngelo does sound like a pos but getting out of the Zucc deal (it’s really just the NMC for me) would be ideal before the expansion draft (especially if we do go 4-4).