Trade, FA & Rumour Thread

[Mortimer Snerd]

Edmonto fans were discussing Gibson...suggested Holloway, Skinner and the 2022 1st. That is decent. Edmonton would ahve to add Koskinen for CAP reasons. I would want something more but not sure a goalie is going to merit that much.

When you are as close to having a very good team - except in goal - as the Oilers are you pay very highly to get that goalie. I'm not sure they would pay what I would demand, but its not impossible.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Actually I could see Helly returning any one of those players.

I think we would be hard pressed to get Power in exchange for any 2 assets we have.
Levi alone doesn't get Helle. I'm not sure what the add would have to be. Pretty good, but nowhere near Power.
I could see TML giving up Nylander, but I would not do that for Helle. I don't see any obvious package from Leafs that would get it done for me.

Any trade for Helle that does not include a starting goalie, or near ready prospective starting goalie has to be made up of very young assets, because we will have to plan on not having a goalie for at least a couple of years. The only exception to that would be if we could see another trade bringing in a good starter. Like something for Gibson, for example. And don't ask me what for Gibson. I can only manage one fantasy at a time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The trade Helle talk is crazy… teams don’t win cups without top goaltending - we have that except we are running him into the ground

Helle is one of our untouchables

Obviously correct - except if we can't make good use of Helle and we get a knock your socks off offer for him.

And also, of course, all we are talking about here is fantasies. Actual trades don't get made here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Helle is two years away from being a 30+ year old UFA, with probably with one of the higher usage or shot volumes faced for a goalie of similar NHL experience

If you think this team can compete for a Stanley Cup within two years, keep him at his current of 6.1m if not, it's a pertinent question to trade and actually get a great return to help this team beyond his expiring contract.

As a goalie with a Vezina laden resume, and likely during his decline years, how much does he get on a UFA deal? Do we re sign him even? Idk if I would. And I don't know if we're cup contenders with him.

And those are the issues and the reasons why it is perfectly acceptable to consider trading Helle - but the price has to be very good. He not only has a Vezina, but he was on the 3 man short list the year before that and has played another good year after before this off year that is still not that bad, especially considering his work load.

But he is just 2.5 mos from his 29th B'day. So he will be fully 31 when this contract expires. Not old for a goalie, sometimes, but hard to predict.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Realistically, Wheeler is un-tradeable, Helly can't be moved because there is no replacement in the organization for him, so that leaves Chef. But, IMO, Chevy has hung his hat on the core he built. He is going to try everything else possible before breaking up his core. Having said that, if someone gave Chevy an insane offer for Chef...OR if Chevy is no longer in the position of GM...

Realistically, I think you are right that Chevy is committed to the core he has built. I will be surprised if he recognizes that it is time to move on. But it could happen.

 

[DRW204]

When's the last time a goalie of similar or even close to Helles calibre has been traded? Honestly can't think of one in recent years to consider a presedent for a return.

 

[Orrrules]

Holtby?

 

[DRW204]

Holtby?

Never traded

 

[tbcwpg]

When you are as close to having a very good team - except in goal - as the Oilers are you pay very highly to get that goalie. I'm not sure they would pay what I would demand, but its not impossible.

What would you demand, out of curiosity?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What would you demand, out of curiosity?

Start with Bouchard. Maybe it ends there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd prefer to start tearing it down now for a better chance at Bedard. Only thing left that has any hope.

Hope is not that limited, or that black and white.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When's the last time a goalie of similar or even close to Helles calibre has been traded? Honestly can't think of one in recent years to consider a presedent for a return.

Miller?
Schneider?
Luongo?

 

[WolfHouse]

Miller?
Schneider?
Luongo?

Those guys were all done

 

[jrs]

Hope is not that limited, or that black and white.

This team has not recovered since the wcf run and losing all the RD and nothing will change until we see a massive turn over.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Those guys were all done

No they weren't. Look at their whole trade history, not just the last trade.

After being traded in '14 Miller played 6 more seasons and played well in all but the last one.
Schneider was at his peak when traded after the '13 season and played several very good seasons before losing it at an unexpectedly early age.
Luongo played 13 more seasons after being traded in '06 and was among the best goalies in the league for most of that time. He was traded again and played 5 more seasons after that. And again played very well after the trade.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This team has not recovered since the wcf run and losing all the RD and nothing will change until we see a massive turn over.

Sure - but Bedard is not the only hope to build a contender. If we don't get him are we supposed to keep bottoming out until the next generational talent comes along? And then hope for a lottery win?

 

[Bob E]

This team has not recovered since the wcf run and losing all the RD and nothing will change until we see a massive turn over.

Guys gone from that WCF run:

Byfuglien
Trouba
Myers
Chiarot
Enstrom
Kulikov
Laine
Tanev
Armia
Perreault
Little
Roslovic

Replaced by:

Schmidt
Pionk
DeMelo
Dillon
Stanley
Beaulieu
Dubois
Toninato
Harkins
Svechnikov
Poganski
Vesalainen

Perfetti (likely replaces Poganski or Vesalainen in that lineup)

The coaching staff has done some strange deployment, but they also are limited as to what they have to use. That's on Chevy.

 

[jrs]

Sure - but Bedard is not the only hope to build a contender. If we don't get him are we supposed to keep bottoming out until the next generational talent comes along? And then hope for a lottery win?

bedard is just a fun thought, the idea is to get some of the highest draft picks possible asap to rebuild/retool fast. Jets have a lot of assets that should be traded now that will bring the changes we need.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

bedard is just a fun thought, the idea is to get some of the highest draft picks possible asap to rebuild/retool fast. Jets have a lot of assets that should be traded now that will bring the changes we need.

Yes.

 

[Jimmyjets]

Miller?
Schneider?
Luongo?

In Helle you have a 29 year old Vezina winner that is under contract for 2 more years.

Ryan Miller (34 years old and a pending UFA) & Steve Ott returned a 1st, a 3rd, William Carrier (was a recent 2nd round pick at the time), Chris Stewart (35 point winger and former 1st round pick) and Halak who was a pending UFA and didn't actually ever play a game for the Sabres.

Cory Schneider (27 years old and under contract for 2 more years) was traded for 9th overall (Bo Horvat). IMO the best comparable trade of those listed.

Roberto Luongo was 35 when he was traded to the Panthers for Markstom and Matthias. He was also traded to the Canucks when he was 27 years old for Todd Bertuzzi (70 points in the previous year), Bryan Allan and Alex Auld.

So for Helle I would want a deal similar to Schneider in that he is 2 years older, but also has a better resume as he's led his team to the conference final, won a Vezina and been a finalist multiple times.

There is heir apparent to replace Helle at this time so I would be very careful in moving him or we'll be back to the Pavelic era. I look at the Devils and would consider trading him for their 1st this year.

If we traded him I would expect 1 premium piece coming back with adds depending on how premium that piece is. The high water marks are either a top 10 pick or a package with 70 point aging superstar and some prospects. Getting an old player back doesn't help us so I'd target the pick and the only team with a top 10 pick this year that makes sense to me are the Devils... maybe the red wings too as the Nedj bridge to Cossa isn't working out.

 

[Keystone]

In Helle you have a 29 year old Vezina winner that is under contract for 2 more years.

Ryan Miller (34 years old and a pending UFA) & Steve Ott returned a 1st, a 3rd, William Carrier (was a recent 2nd round pick at the time), Chris Stewart (35 point winger and former 1st round pick) and Halak who was a pending UFA and didn't actually ever play a game for the Sabres.

Cory Schneider (27 years old and under contract for 2 more years) was traded for 9th overall (Bo Horvat). IMO the best comparable trade of those listed.

Roberto Luongo was 35 when he was traded to the Panthers for Markstom and Matthias. He was also traded to the Canucks when he was 27 years old for Todd Bertuzzi (70 points in the previous year), Bryan Allan and Alex Auld.

So for Helle I would want a deal similar to Schneider in that he is 2 years older, but also has a better resume as he's led his team to the conference final, won a Vezina and been a finalist multiple times.

There is heir apparent to replace Helle at this time so I would be very careful in moving him or we'll be back to the Pavelic era. I look at the Devils and would consider trading him for their 1st this year.

If we traded him I would expect 1 premium piece coming back with adds depending on how premium that piece is. The high water marks are either a top 10 pick or a package with 70 point aging superstar and some prospects. Getting an old player back doesn't help us so I'd target the pick and the only team with a top 10 pick this year that makes sense to me are the Devils... maybe the red wings too as the Nedj bridge to Cossa isn't working out.

I was thinking Detroit myself. Helle and 3rd for Nedj and 1st. I’d have to be pretty high on someone in the draft to do that mind you.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In Helle you have a 29 year old Vezina winner that is under contract for 2 more years.

Ryan Miller (34 years old and a pending UFA) & Steve Ott returned a 1st, a 3rd, William Carrier (was a recent 2nd round pick at the time), Chris Stewart (35 point winger and former 1st round pick) and Halak who was a pending UFA and didn't actually ever play a game for the Sabres.

Cory Schneider (27 years old and under contract for 2 more years) was traded for 9th overall (Bo Horvat). IMO the best comparable trade of those listed.

Roberto Luongo was 35 when he was traded to the Panthers for Markstom and Matthias. He was also traded to the Canucks when he was 27 years old for Todd Bertuzzi (70 points in the previous year), Bryan Allan and Alex Auld.

So for Helle I would want a deal similar to Schneider in that he is 2 years older, but also has a better resume as he's led his team to the conference final, won a Vezina and been a finalist multiple times.

There is heir apparent to replace Helle at this time so I would be very careful in moving him or we'll be back to the Pavelic era. I look at the Devils and would consider trading him for their 1st this year.

If we traded him I would expect 1 premium piece coming back with adds depending on how premium that piece is. The high water marks are either a top 10 pick or a package with 70 point aging superstar and some prospects. Getting an old player back doesn't help us so I'd target the pick and the only team with a top 10 pick this year that makes sense to me are the Devils... maybe the red wings too as the Nedj bridge to Cossa isn't working out.

I don't move Helle just for fair value. For that I keep him. I want at least a little overpay from a team like the Oilers who REALLY need a goalie and need him now. Oil need a fully developed, ready to go, in his peak years, goalie before McD and/or Drai start demanding trades.

Holland has been slow to recognize their need for a goalie but he SHOULD be ready to pay big for a goalie like Helle. If not, I don't do the deal.

I would consider a trade for lesser value from some team that could include a high probability goalie in the return. But to leave us with no starting goalie and no strong prospect in the system, I would need the overpay.

 

[WolfHouse]

No they weren't. Look at their whole trade history, not just the last trade.

After being traded in '14 Miller played 6 more seasons and played well in all but the last one.
Schneider was at his peak when traded after the '13 season and played several very good seasons before losing it at an unexpectedly early age.
Luongo played 13 more seasons after being traded in '06 and was among the best goalies in the league for most of that time. He was traded again and played 5 more seasons after that. And again played very well after the trade.

Fair enough - I was just looking at the last trades… however I see most of these goalies traded as a necessity - pending UFA, goalie controversy, etc - whereas we have a great goalie on a good deal

 

[gojetsgo]

Guys gone from that WCF run:


The coaching staff has done some strange deployment, but they also are limited as to what they have to use. That's on Chevy.

they've had the ability to run schief-pld-stastny/copp-lowry down the middle, they haven't once, they are limiting what they can do on the ice

 

[cbcwpg]

I don't move Helle just for fair value. For that I keep him. I want at least a little overpay from a team like the Oilers who REALLY need a goalie and need him now. Oil need a fully developed, ready to go, in his peak years, goalie before McD and/or Drai start demanding trades.

Holland has been slow to recognize their need for a goalie but he SHOULD be ready to pay big for a goalie like Helle. If not, I don't do the deal.

I would consider a trade for lesser value from some team that could include a high probability goalie in the return. But to leave us with no starting goalie and no strong prospect in the system, I would need the overpay.

The thing with the Oilers is there is a very good chance the only players we would want back for Helly would be players they would have no interest in trading.

McD and Draisaitl are a no go. Do we want RNH or Hyman as a start? I would be interested in Evan Bouchard, but you need a lot more than him.

RNH is 28 with 7 more years of a $5,125,000 / yr cap hit. So the value is really cheap , but is he going to age well? Can he keep his 0.6 - 0.7 PPG going?

Hyman is 29 with 6 more years of a $5,500,000 / yr cap hit. This will probably be his best offensive season in his career so far.