Ryan Miller is the only one witha. Vezina between those three. And no other eyar as a finalist.
Schneider had a whopping 98 gp prior to be trading. Ppl comparing it to Helle?
Luongo same thing as Miller minus a Vezina.
Trade, FA & Rumour Thread
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Schneider had a whopping 98 gp prior to be trading. Ppl comparing it to Helle?
Luongo same thing as Miller minus a Vezina.
I mean Loungo's track record is arguably better imo minus the trophy. Roberto has a higher career save percentage and that is with him playing until he was 39. Roberto may not have had the extreme highs of Helle but he was pretty much a model of consistiently elite goaltending his entire career.
What Luongo does after that trade is less relevant. His trade value at the time is based on what he done prior to joining Vancouver, and some reasonable expectation going forward (which is based on his career to date at the time of the trade.)
At the time he was traded he had 1 third place Vezina finish. Helle has a win, 2nd place and a 4th place finish.
Ah, we are looking at it at different spots in his career that is where the mix up was.
Luongo was still very good. But think Helle is better. And the league wide acclaim (don't GMs vote on Vezina?) is easily on Helles side.
I mean I think Loungo got robbed a few times for the vezina but that is neither hear nor there. I think Helle's highs have been higher but his lows have also been lower. I think Loubgo is incredibly underrated as a goalie due to not having won anything. I'd take someone with his elite consistency anyway of the week.
helle should be considered elite consistency too...
2nd place, 1st place, 4th place in the vezina last 4 seasons.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I see 2 possible reasons to trade Helle.
1) An offer too good to refuse and
2) Expectations to contend in the 2 years remaining on his contract.
For the right offer, I'd trade my mother. Obviously, that would create an enormous hole that would need to be filled, one way or another. It can be done. There are always goalies available, though you wouldn't expect to easily pick up one as good as Helle.
We have just 2 years remaining of Helle's contract. Will he be willing to extend here if the team still looks like it has these last 3 seasons? If so, or if the team is looking much better, will we want to sign him for the money and term that he would be able to get as a UFA?
We may not have him for more than those 2 years and we may not have that good a team yet in 2 years even if we are on the right path. If our retool is going to take a few years to bear fruit, we might be wise to cash in on Helle now and get serious about landing a replacement. Hopefully we could have the replacement ready by the time we really need him.
Barring that really strong offer, I'm more inclined to keep him than to move him. I would hope that he is still good and wants to stay here for a fair price after this contract. Might be a different picture a year from now when he has only 1 year left. Cross that bridge when we come to it.
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I would want Bouchard and Holloway and Skinner. We take Koskinen & Turris to help them with the cap.
I really do think that a reasonable thing to do is just reset for next year if they guys in the room still believe in this team.
I do feel like the team has just been snake bitten this year and they need to shake that off somehow and get some good vibes flowing.
They have 165 xGoals but only 146 goals and usually with our forwards we outperform that expected goal number based on shooting talent. This year we have significantly underperformed by managing to not score on the opportunities we've created. Even if we managed to only play to our expected goals we would be sitting at a +12 goal differential on the year and we would be sitting in a playoff spot.
Maybe this season is the straw that broke the camels back and guys demand to move on, but given the returns that are being tossed around for our players, we likely get the same thing the following offseason so I can see letting calmer heads prevail and running back pretty much the same group next year, especially if they heat up down the stretch.
When we get Ehlers and Perfetti back lets see what the last 30 games bring. We need to win 2 out of 3 the rest of the way to make it close to making the playoffs but with a lineup of
KFC PLD Svech
Ehlers 55 Perfetti
Copp Lowry Wheeler
Guy Stas other guy
4th liners being: Harkins, Toninato, Vesalainen, Gus to match with Stas
That still looks elite to me and I want to see it for a few games to see what we have.
In reality probably Svech gets demoted again and Perfetti plays in that spot and we dust of Schwheehlers again with Copp Lowry Stas but whatever. We have options and things to blend to if it isn't working on a particular night.
If guys want to move on maybe that forces our hand but maybe as restrictions lift it gets more fun to play "at home" again, we string some wins together.
I do feel like the team has just been snake bitten this year and they need to shake that off somehow and get some good vibes flowing.
They have 165 xGoals but only 146 goals and usually with our forwards we outperform that expected goal number based on shooting talent. This year we have significantly underperformed by managing to not score on the opportunities we've created. Even if we managed to only play to our expected goals we would be sitting at a +12 goal differential on the year and we would be sitting in a playoff spot.
Maybe this season is the straw that broke the camels back and guys demand to move on, but given the returns that are being tossed around for our players, we likely get the same thing the following offseason so I can see letting calmer heads prevail and running back pretty much the same group next year, especially if they heat up down the stretch.
When we get Ehlers and Perfetti back lets see what the last 30 games bring. We need to win 2 out of 3 the rest of the way to make it close to making the playoffs but with a lineup of
KFC PLD Svech
Ehlers 55 Perfetti
Copp Lowry Wheeler
Guy Stas other guy
4th liners being: Harkins, Toninato, Vesalainen, Gus to match with Stas
That still looks elite to me and I want to see it for a few games to see what we have.
In reality probably Svech gets demoted again and Perfetti plays in that spot and we dust of Schwheehlers again with Copp Lowry Stas but whatever. We have options and things to blend to if it isn't working on a particular night.
If guys want to move on maybe that forces our hand but maybe as restrictions lift it gets more fun to play "at home" again, we string some wins together.
Huffer
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Not saying we should or shouldn't trade Helle, as I am open to anything depending on the return, and I sincerely hope that Lucious turns into the real deal, but IMO possibly thinking about moving Helle might have been a little easier if we were sitting with a guy like Wallstedt in the system.
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It does not REQUIRE a Vezina to be a very good starter and everyone knew after his 98 games that Schneider was going to be very good.
The Vezina on the resume (and the preceding year as a finalist) just add to the price.
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Saying that is on Chevy is just way too simplistic. Laine and Roslovic out for Dubois in is a net win.
Would you really have wanted to pay Myers 5x6 mil?
Would you have been good with Tanev at 6x3.5 mil? Note that Pens didn't protect him.
Even though it was only 3 years, Chiarot was not worth 3.5 mil.
Trouba was gone no matter what Chevy did, so he got a decent return.
Buff, Enstrom and Perreault all aged out. Chevy has no control over that.
Little took a career ending injury. Is that on Chevy?
Kulikov could have been kept around for the lesser money he has earned since leaving, but he has been replaced adequately.
That leaves Armia. I never liked that move. But he is now being paid more than he is earning.
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I agree - and IF we were to trade him, the return should match that.
That said, I still think trading Helle at this time is a bit on the extreme side. I would consider it, on a couple of points, but I would not rush into anything. You go nowhere without goaltending and we would probably be without goaltending.
What's on Chevy is replacing what has been lost with quality replacements.
Of course some of those players will age out or become too expensive to retain, but its up to Chevy to replace those players with similar or better options. If Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey become expensive, where are their inexpensive counterparts. Now, on D, I think he's done a reasonable job of replacing a few of those players, Buff withstanding. But at forward, our bottom 6 is a disaster, and really not competitive. He's brought in or stuck with guys that have had very little impact. That is what is on Chevy, imo.
Chevy needs to be much more aggressive in improving the roster, or moving on from players that are past their prime.
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I like your optimism, at least as it applies to next year. Not sure it is realistic, or not. Coaching is an unknown and there appear to be some attitude issues that our interim coach is not getting solved. I honestly don't think PO are realistic for this year. Subject to revision is we go on a winning streak.
Does our bottom 6 depth suck or is it deployed incorrectly.
We could easily have something like this with a healthy lineup:
Conner Dubois Svech
Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers
Copp Stastny Wheeler
Harkins Lowry Toninoto
That all of a sudden doesn't actually look bad now does it. We have juat had a lot of injuries and we have a coaching staff that insists on playing plugs on the bottom of the roster.
True. Good point.
For a playoff push, I might do:
Connor-Dubois-Svechnikov
Perfetti-Scheifele-Wheeler
Copp-Stastny-Ehlers
Harkins-Lowry-Toninato
That's pretty decent top 9, actually. I stand/sit corrected.
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Sure, it is in his job description. But it might take a while to replace some of those players (Buff).
I don't exactly like the way the bottom 6 has been handled, especially this year. It has been apparent for quite a while already that Ves is not ready. He should have been sent back to the Moose for more development. We might be ruining what could have been a good bottom 6 player by leaving him in the NHL. I think Harkins has been shuffled around too much and played with scrubs too much. But he still might figure it out. He hasn't yet though.
But much of the problem in our bottom 6 has been either related to injuries or to veteran players underperforming their norms. Not much a GM can do about that either. But bottom 6 players are available every off-season. If this year's bottom 6 has turned out to be inadequate then lets see what Chevy does about it in the off-season.
The jets have had ample opportunity to go 4c-deep with 3 scoring lines over the past few seasons. I am not holding my breath that they'll be doing that this year, or any time soon (will be pleasantly surprised).
I wonder if this roster structure and/or playstyle is something Chevy and co. wants and will only sign a coach that comes hmm (ok enough tinfoil hat).
I wonder if this roster structure and/or playstyle is something Chevy and co. wants and will only sign a coach that comes hmm (ok enough tinfoil hat).
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