Trade, FA & Rumour Thread

[SM]

What would people think about bringing over Giordano?

Not a bad idea at all, even if he fizzles out next year since he’s only got a year remaining. Would think we’d need to send Perreault back to make it work, or have them retain cap. Genuinely don’t have a clue what they would want from us in return, though.

Also unsure what we’d run as pairings. Maybe,
Giordano-Pionk
Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Poolman

Might provide a good stopgap to allow Heinola/Samberg to take on 2nd pairing minutes next year and assess what we have.

 

[BatVader]

Not a bad idea at all, even if he fizzles out next year since he’s only got a year remaining. Would think we’d need to send Perreault back to make it work, or have them retain cap. Genuinely don’t have a clue what they would want from us in return, though.

Also unsure what we’d run as pairings. Maybe,
Giordano-Pionk
Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Poolman

Might provide a good stopgap to allow Heinola/Samberg to take on 2nd pairing minutes next year and assess what we have.

What we have is a huge problem if Giordano - Pionk is our top pairing

 

[Duke749]

I’d rather Chevy invest in something more long term

We already are investing in long term options in the form of Stanley, Samberg, and Heinola. Think this is more of a good stop gap option.

 

[Weezeric]

Over the past 3 seasons Giordano is 10th by CF% and 21st by xG% of Defenceman who played more than 1000 mins. Been a fairly steady decline over those three years however.

He would also a toughness element that our defence certainly is lacking.

 

[RustyCat]

What would people think about bringing over Giordano?

Perhaps. He actually might be a good fit here. Two questions: would Calgary even have him on the block? And given where he is in his career and the particulars of his contract, what cost do you see going the other way?

 

[mondo3]

Is Hamilton a 1D?

 

[Huffer]

What would people think about bringing over Giordano?

A little mixed tbh. Depends on the price to acquire for sure. He's not a guy I'd be looking to trade a 1st or a top prospect for at this stage. I also worry about how much he has left in the tank, and with another year at 6.75, I'd also wonder about how that impacts any additions they could have made for next year.

 

[Jimmyjets]

What would people think about bringing over Giordano?

What's the acquisition cost? I think that it gives us 3 pairings that should be very good.

Gio - Pionk
Jmo - DeMelo
Forbort - Poolman

If he gets taken by Seattle in the expansion draft so be it but he's so old I don't think they take him. Buys some time for Heinola/Stanley to be top 4 options. Added bonus that it would be Calgary throwing in the towel which makes us a lock to make the playoffs.

I don't mind the move, depending on what he costs to acquire.

 

[Daximus]

Is Hamilton a 1D?

Yeah Is say so. The bar for a #1RD is pretty low as there arent a tonne of true number 1s. So it depends on where you set the bar. You could make an argument that Pionk is a top 30 RD in the league pretty easily. But I dont think you should guage it in that sense.

 

[RustyCat]

A little mixed tbh. Depends on the price to acquire for sure. He's not a guy I'd be looking to trade a 1st or a top prospect for at this stage. I also worry about how much he has left in the tank, and with another year at 6.75, I'd also wonder about how that impacts any additions they could have made for next year.

You are right about the salary part. I feel like even if he doesn't have a lot of gas left, a year and a half of a player of his pedigree might significantly change what we look like. Also, might buy some time to see if guys like Heinola or Samberg have what it takes to be on the top paring. Kind of like an assessment period for them with lowered pressure, meanwhile we improve in the interim. Could work?

 

[BatVader]

Is Hamilton a 1D?

I’d feel more comfortable with Hamilton as our 1RHD than Pionk

 

[mondo3]

I’d feel more comfortable with Hamilton as our 1RHD than Pionk

Then I'd lean to trying to sign him as a free agent instead of trading a 1st+ to get one. Could be some tough competition though, but I think we have the cap space, and he has played in Canada before, so it's possible.

 

[WolfHouse]

Where are people getting this idea that Hamilton, Giordano, Pulock, etc are even available? They're not.

 

[DRW204]

Where are people getting this idea that Hamilton, Giordano, Pulock, etc are even available? They're not.

think ppl are bored

 

[Jimmyjets]

On the Gio front I imagine they'd only be considering moving him because they don't want to protect him in the expansion draft and the optics of not protecting your captain is way worse than trading him away to a contender like they've done with Iginla.

To fit his salary we'd need a pretty big cap hit headed back the other way so let's say Perreault. He's been pushed down to the 4th line in a contract year and really, we need to play Harkins over him so that Harkins hits the required games for the expansion draft.

Then we'd need to add the equivalent value of a late 1st. I'm going to suggest Vesalainen as 1) he's a former late 1st rounder, 2) he's expansion exempt, 3) he's NHL ready on an ELC in a flat cap world and 4) he's blocked from our top 9 if we extend Lowry and Copp long term this offseason. I expect Perfetti will blow past him as a prospect. But for a team that could use top 6 forward help, that should be very interesting.

I'd then also offer Niku as another NHL ready prospect that they can plug in on the back end if they want to as I'm not sure he fits into our long term plans if we extend Poolman. Maybe Beaulieu instead if they wanted as Gio would count as our expansion eligible D.

Gio for Vesalainen, Niku & Perreault?

Maybe find a way to grab Bennett too for Columbus' 3rd rounder?

I don't know. Gio's 2 years at $6.75 cap hit is a lot for us to take on, especially knowing the Flames will then use that capspace to go after Hall as a UFA. I think it could work out for both teams though.

If this works, I'd be on board. If they want a bunch more I'd walk away.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well, what are we trying to do here? Compete, retool, rebuild?

To me, trading Connor, who is now our best goalscorer and arguably our top winger, for a 19-year-old with no NHL games signals to me we are not trying to be competitive this year or next. Seider is a maybe right now, Connor is a proven asset. Even if Seider develops as expected, he’s probably at least 2-3 years away from being that bonafide #1 D. Our franchise goalie and franchise C are at the peak of their primes right now, let’s go for it.

I didn't suggest trading Connor. You are arguing with something I didn't say.

But since you want to go there ......
Connor may be our best goal scorer. He has scored the most goals over the last 3 years. Not necessarily the same. Context needs to be considered. I don't think there is any way you can build an argument that he is our top winger.

True that Seider is both young and unproven. All signs point to him achieving at a very high level. But unproven is unproven. The risk is obvious. I don't deny that lack of NHL proof is the weakness in proposing trading for Seider. No risk, no reward. I don't think he will take very long to adapt to the NHL. But he will take some time. We would have to wait and see exactly how long. The potential for it to take several years is a drawback.

But just what is it that Connor has proven? Can he score goals? Yes, he has proven that. Is he a net positive contributor? If so, to what level? Laine was frequently called 1 dimensional. I suggest that that label may fit Connor even better than it fit Laine.



I think Connor is improving his all around game but I'm not sure how much improvement we can expect. But the numbers above seem to indicate that he would not be as big a loss as you might suspect. Maybe he could be replaced by a better all around player who lacks Connor's scoring touch without a big net loss. Say Harkins, Vesalainen or a UFA pickup next off-season. Or Perfetti might be ready fairly soon.

So, for a good return, it looks like it would be worth considering. And remember that we could also save his 7.143 mil cap hit as well.

Note that all I said was "considering", which is all I said before. It would be worth thinking through with some care, rather than simply dismissing out of hand.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I didn't suggest trading Connor. You are arguing with something I didn't say.

But since you want to go there ......
Connor may be our best goal scorer. He has scored the most goals over the last 3 years. Not necessarily the same. Context needs to be considered. I don't think there is any way you can build an argument that he is our top winger.

True that Seider is both young and unproven. All signs point to him achieving at a very high level. But unproven is unproven. The risk is obvious. I don't deny that lack of NHL proof is the weakness in proposing trading for Seider. No risk, no reward. I don't think he will take very long to adapt to the NHL. But he will take some time. We would have to wait and see exactly how long. The potential for it to take several years is a drawback.

But just what is it that Connor has proven? Can he score goals? Yes, he has proven that. Is he a net positive contributor? If so, to what level? Laine was frequently called 1 dimensional. I suggest that that label may fit Connor even better than it fit Laine.



I think Connor is improving his all around game but I'm not sure how much improvement we can expect. But the numbers above seem to indicate that he would not be as big a loss as you might suspect. Maybe he could be replaced by a better all around player who lacks Connor's scoring touch without a big net loss. Say Harkins, Vesalainen or a UFA pickup next off-season. Or Perfetti might be ready fairly soon.

So, for a good return, it looks like it would be worth considering. And remember that we could also save his 7.143 mil cap hit as well.

Note that all I said was "considering", which is all I said before. It would be worth thinking through with some care, rather than simply dismissing out of hand.

Kc is not our best winger but you could easily make a case he is our second best or third best.
He is an underrated playmaker. Like Laine he is terrible defensively but it looks like he is going to be much cheaper than Laine.

 

[snowkiddin]

I didn't suggest trading Connor. You are arguing with something I didn't say.

But since you want to go there ......
Connor may be our best goal scorer. He has scored the most goals over the last 3 years. Not necessarily the same. Context needs to be considered. I don't think there is any way you can build an argument that he is our top winger.

True that Seider is both young and unproven. All signs point to him achieving at a very high level. But unproven is unproven. The risk is obvious. I don't deny that lack of NHL proof is the weakness in proposing trading for Seider. No risk, no reward. I don't think he will take very long to adapt to the NHL. But he will take some time. We would have to wait and see exactly how long. The potential for it to take several years is a drawback.

But just what is it that Connor has proven? Can he score goals? Yes, he has proven that. Is he a net positive contributor? If so, to what level? Laine was frequently called 1 dimensional. I suggest that that label may fit Connor even better than it fit Laine.



I think Connor is improving his all around game but I'm not sure how much improvement we can expect. But the numbers above seem to indicate that he would not be as big a loss as you might suspect. Maybe he could be replaced by a better all around player who lacks Connor's scoring touch without a big net loss. Say Harkins, Vesalainen or a UFA pickup next off-season. Or Perfetti might be ready fairly soon.

So, for a good return, it looks like it would be worth considering. And remember that we could also save his 7.143 mil cap hit as well.

Note that all I said was "considering", which is all I said before. It would be worth thinking through with some care, rather than simply dismissing out of hand.

I never said you suggested trading Connor, I’m just making a blanket statement that it would not be a good idea to trade him right now (in general, not even necessarily just for Seider), in my opinion.

We know what Connor brings to us: he’s looking like a guy who will be a perennial 35-40 goalscorer. I recognize we need a 1D but that is not Seider at this point and like I said, I think that can hurt our window. Connor is a top line contributor right now — we don’t what Seider will be. I’m also not sure it’s a good idea to expect Vesalainen or Harkins to replace Connor in the lineup either. Trading Connor for the future at this point hurts our window with Scheif and Hellebuyck.

Connor’s contract is looking to be a dandy, no reason to trade an elite scorer who is living up to his contract just to save cap space. Also, I think his defensive deficiencies are far overstated on these boards (as were Laine’s IMO). He’s got a good active stick, can win puck battles, and is a good guy for getting to loose pucks. His positioning is not the best and he’ll never win the Selke but given what he gives to us offensively, I think his defence is not that bad.

 

[snowkiddin]

Kc is not our best winger but you could easily make a case he is our second best or third best.
He is an underrated playmaker. Like Laine he is terrible defensively but it looks like he is going to be much cheaper than Laine.

I’d personally put him behind Ehlers but after that his only competition right now is Wheeler who is a whipping boy on here to begin with, and Wheeler also turns 35 this year. Connor turns 25. Ask every NHL GM who they would rather have and I bet they all say Connor.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I’d personally put him behind Ehlers but after that his only competition right now is Wheeler who is a whipping boy on here to begin with, and Wheeler also turns 35 this year. Connor turns 25. Ask every NHL GM who they would rather have and I bet they all say Connor.

I’d also put him behind Ehlers. I personally like him but that’s a personal bias. Ves and Harkins like many of our young D haven’t had a chance to shine but to trade Kc and trust guys who could be good if pomo even kept them in the line-up. Everyone knows you have to overpay ufas and so will not get as get of a forward as Kc while spending more to get near an equivalent.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Kc is not our best winger but you could easily make a case he is our second best or third best.
He is an underrated playmaker. Like Laine he is terrible defensively but it looks like he is going to be much cheaper than Laine.

Did you look at that tweet from Garrett I posted?

I don't want to take those numbers as the be all and end all evaluation, but they suggest that quite a few other wingers make larger contributions to winning games.

My personal opinion puts him higher than that but apparently, you could make an argument for him being something like 5th or 6th.

And again - I'm only suggesting that he is not untouchable and could be considered in a trade proposal for a good return. Worth thinking about does not mean you do it, or don't.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I never said you suggested trading Connor, I’m just making a blanket statement that it would not be a good idea to trade him right now (in general, not even necessarily just for Seider), in my opinion.

We know what Connor brings to us: he’s looking like a guy who will be a perennial 35-40 goalscorer. I recognize we need a 1D but that is not Seider at this point and like I said, I think that can hurt our window. Connor is a top line contributor right now — we don’t what Seider will be. I’m also not sure it’s a good idea to expect Vesalainen or Harkins to replace Connor in the lineup either. Trading Connor for the future at this point hurts our window with Scheif and Hellebuyck.

Connor’s contract is looking to be a dandy, no reason to trade an elite scorer who is living up to his contract just to save cap space. Also, I think his defensive deficiencies are far overstated on these boards (as were Laine’s IMO). He’s got a good active stick, can win puck battles, and is a good guy for getting to loose pucks. His positioning is not the best and he’ll never win the Selke but given what he gives to us offensively, I think his defence is not that bad.

Fair enough then.

Scoring goals is pretty hard to replace and it is what the game is all about.
Trading a top contributor for Seider - or a similarly unproven player - has the risk of hurting our current window. I would agree that isn't something that should be done lightly.

But you have to also consider whether or not we actually have a window right now, with the D corps we have. I think that is starting to look more likely with the approach of Samberg and Heinola and also the improvement in Pionk.

I have been ranking Pionk as a #3/4 but he is playing more like a #2. He has been a major piece in my potential offers for a 1RHD, along with some pretty big adds. If his recent play is the new normal and not just a hot streak, I can't make that trade anymore. If I give up Pionk, then the add has to be a lot less than I was thinking. Or if the other pieces remain the same, Pionk can't be a part. And maybe I need to look more at an upgrade at 1LHD than at RHD.

Also, if Pionk really has risen to that level the need to make any move is much less. With Samberg and Heinola getting closer, we may be able to get there without any major trade.

OTOH, if this window is just homer optimism then a setback of a couple of years isn't such a bad idea. We might have another window, or an extension to the window we thought we had. Maybe our real window is with PLD, Perfetti, Samberg, Heinola and Seider (or other trade return).

 

[10Ducky10]

I wouldn't want to see Giardano here and the XD isn't that far away either let's not forget.

If Chevy is going to make a play for a 1D, it'll be after the XD and more than likely a 1RHD. Giardano is no longer a 1D.

JMo Poink
Heinola Slamberg
Stanley Demelo
Boolow/Poolman
Is that such a bad D corps?

 

[Jimmyjets]

I wouldn't want to see Giardano here and the XD isn't that far away either let's not forget.

If Chevy is going to make a play for a 1D, it'll be after the XD and more than likely a 1RHD. Giardano is no longer a 1D.

JMo Poink
Heinola Slamberg
Stanley Demelo
Boolow/Poolman
Is that such a bad D corps?

Not necessarily bad, just super young and 50% rookies. In 2 or 3 years time I think that top 6 is the exact plan. The point is, does a Gio help the youth out and ease the transition for them?

For example next season pretend he helps carry Slamberg while DeMelo breaks in Stanley. The following year Gio is gone and you can shift some things around again if you want.

For example:

This year:
Gio Pionk
Jmo DeMelo
Forbort Poolman

Next year:
JMo Pionk
Gio Slamberg
Stanley DeMelo

The following year:

JMo Slamberg
Heinola Pionk
Stanley DeMelo
Or make a bash brothers: Stanley - Slamberg pairing with JMO - DeMelo and Heinola - Pionk

I don't think it's realistic to trade for a top pair RHD or to think we get Hamilton to sign here as a UFA. Obviously it's possible, but unlikely.

I don't think Seattle takes 37-38 year old Giordano for the last year of his career instead of a young guy like a Harkins. If they do, I'd just need to make sure the acquisition cost was at a rental level so if Seattle takes him it's not a big deal. If they take Stanley, than Heinola comes a year sooner and we need to find a bottom pair left D 2 years from now.

 

[Buffdog]

If we acquired Gio I'd go into the transaction with the idea that he's exposed in the XD and as such would potentially be a rental this year. Thay said, there's no guarantee Seattle takes a guy his age with one year left on his contract, so we could be stuck with him next year (which is OK if forbort isn't back).