OT: Totally Legal Music Sharing Thread sponsored by Napster

[jaster]

I think the article was a convoluted mess to help someone personally work through why they think their tastes are superior.

The elder generation putting their stamp of disapproval on the previous one and its slide into chaos goes back to ancient Greek writings. The arguments are so recycled and boring at this point I can't be bothered to care when I hear someone complain about kids today and that stuff they do I don't understand.

This is true, and that article was chock full of inaccuracies and ignorance regarding hip hop. Much of it actually read like satire. It confused correlation and causation. Convoluted indeed. Cringey, even.

The critique of mumble rap from within the hip hop community has significantly more substance. Not worth going into in this thread, but I will say mumble rap is far from the genre's first sub that met criticism from within the hip hop community, going back decades, so it can't really be pinned solely on age-related, get-off-my-lawn, I-don't-understand-this mentality.

Mumble rap is an interesting one though, in that there are people in hip hop who consider it a subgenre, and others who see it as it's own genre. And the same debate is waged within the mumble rap community. And then the people in mumble rap who refuse to call it mumble rap, and the debate over accents. There's not a ton of agreement, but there are objective and structural facets of mumble rap that set it apart from most hip hop. I have my own opinions on those and they are not favorable to mumble rap. In the end, though, if there are people making it and people consuming it, well, whatever. Have at it.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I think the article was a convoluted mess to help someone personally work through why they think their tastes are superior.

The elder generation putting their stamp of disapproval on the previous one and its slide into chaos goes back to ancient Greek writings. The arguments are so recycled and boring at this point I can't be bothered to care when I hear someone complain about kids today and that stuff they do I don't understand.

@jaster - I don't really listen to/like rap/hip-hop/r&b so maybe there are "some inaccuracies".

@Bench
(If you actually read the entire article)...there were scientific studies done, not so convoluted really.

The author isn't some Boomer, possibly a Gen-X'er, looks like ~35-40yo millenial but age shouldn't matter. He could be 80yo or 20yo, the content is what is important.

He's been featured on Forbes (bias at best), CNN (Fake News), Huff Post (also Fake News but in print), Fox News (some more fake news), Independent, Truth Theory, The Times (fn) & Daily Mail (tabloid level) + numerous other sites for his projects....Point is, he's not some random quack.

here's his site
Niraj Naik – Breathe in light

Log into Facebook

I know it's hard for humans as a species to see others perspectives at times (we're all guilty).

 

[jaster]

@jaster - I don't really listen to/like rap/hip-hop/r&b so maybe there are "some inaccuracies".

@Bench
(If you actually read the entire article)...there were scientific studies done, not so convoluted really.

The author isn't some Boomer, possibly a Gen-X'er, looks like ~35-40yo millenial but age shouldn't matter. He could be 80yo or 20yo, the content is what is important.

He's been featured on Forbes (bias at best), CNN (Fake News), Huff Post (also Fake News but in print), Fox News (some more fake news), Independent, Truth Theory, The Times (fn) & Daily Mail (tabloid level) + numerous other sites for his projects....Point is, he's not some random quack.

here's his site
Niraj Naik – Breathe in light

Log into Facebook

I know it's hard for humans as a species to see others perspectives at times (we're all guilty).

The following is highly problematic, as it is presented in this article....

In a study by Sir Dr David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. ,an internationally renowned psychiatrist, into the effects of different types of music using muscle testing. He says that, “Whereas virtually all classical music and most pop music (including “classic” rock and roll) caused a universally strong response, the “hard” or “heavy metal” rock that first gained acceptance in the late 70’s produced a universally weak response.”
Dr Hawkins says that , “Among our test subjects, punk rock, death rock and gangster rap music made every subject go weak, confirming earlier observations made by Dr. John Diamond.”
This means that just by listening to mumble rap, which is an even cruder form of gangster rap, you become weaker – a side effect of listening to mumble rap that’s not much use for a wannabe gangster!
In a study of students Dr. James Johnson of the University of North Carolina found that listening to rap music increased tolerance for and predisposition to violence. It also promoted materialism and reduced interest in academic studies.
Dr Hawkins concludes that “the music of Bach makes everyone go strong, even if they don’t personally like it, just as heavy metal music makes all subjects go weak, even if they personally prefer it.”
This shows that certain styles of music speak the true language of the soul and resonate with your nervous system in a positive way, regardless of how messed up society has made you and your taste in music.

The link to the "study" that is referenced does not actually go to a study. Just a website featuring the now deceased psychiatrist who allegedly conducted the study. Was it peer-reviewed? Published? And then the description of the study in the text I quoted above leaves a lot to be desired. Who were the people this music was tested on? Was there a control group? I mean, depending on your background and where you're from, different music will affect you in different ways. And then the actual effects.... what are these "strong" and "weak" responses? What does that mean? What does it mean to say a subject listened to a type of music and "went weak"? And oh dear, this other study from this Johnson fellow sounds even more problematic. Like, a thousand questions regarding that one.

In the end, there's no science cited here. There's no references, no links to actual studies, no journals... just brief, vague hand-waving towards guys who, according to the author, back up his opinions with science. But it's a claim that isn't backed up. And on the surface appears to be ridiculous. I'm sorry, Dats, if this is a guy you look to, but this whole section just wreaks of pseudo-science. Briefly looking at the man's bio and seeing his predilection for alternative medicine doesn't help

 

[Bench]

@Bench
(If you actually read the entire article)...there were scientific studies done, not so convoluted really.

The work of the primary author cited mainly revolves around energy and states of consciousness. It's spiritual in nature. It's not respected science that you'll find in medical journals. It's the kind of stuff that Oprah shills like The Secret.

It's trash. It's why I didn't comment on it before and didn't want to get into it.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

The following is highly problematic, as it is presented in this article....



The link to the "study" that is referenced does not actually go to a study. Just a website featuring the now deceased psychiatrist who allegedly conducted the study. Was it peer-reviewed? Published? And then the description of the study in the text I quoted above leaves a lot to be desired. Who were the people this music was tested on? Was there a control group? I mean, depending on your background and where you're from, different music will affect you in different ways. And then the actual effects.... what are these "strong" and "weak" responses? What does that mean? What does it mean to say a subject listened to a type of music and "went weak"? And oh dear, this other study from this Johnson fellow sounds even more problematic. Like, a thousand questions regarding that one.

In the end, there's no science cited here. There's no references, no links to actual studies, no journals... just brief, vague hand-waving towards guys who, according to the author, back up his opinions with science. But it's a claim that isn't backed up. And on the surface appears to be ridiculous. I'm sorry, Dats, if this is a guy you look to, but this whole section just wreaks of pseudo-science. Briefly looking at the man's bio and seeing his predilection for alternative medicine doesn't help

So you're saying:

I agree about the 3rd party/peer reviewed / control group etc...

& then there's this:

"Researchers at University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore showed that listening to your favourite music can actually be good for your cardiovascular system. Music personally selected by participants of the study that they loved showed to dilate blood vessels, lower blood pressure and improve blood flow. However music that they perceived as stressful (most participants chose heavy metal or gangster rap), narrowed blood vessels and created an unhealthy response."

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

The work of the primary author cited mainly revolves around energy and states of consciousness. It's spiritual in nature. It's not respected science that you'll find in medical journals. It's the kind of stuff that Oprah shills like The Secret.

It's trash. It's why I didn't comment on it before and didn't want to get into it.

@Bench
Fair enough. I agree to disagree on the "pseudo-science" angle. Ayurveda, being a prime example, as it saved my life, removed/flushed over 70+ stones from my ailing liver. People mock what they don't understand and/or have no experience in/with.

Now, that's not to say there isn't actual pseudo-science quacks out there too. Astrology for example. Entertaing, sure, even often coincidental, but trusted road map to the future? No!

I keep a very open mind. Even now there are some/many that aren't even aware of the Jeffrey Epstein ordeal (Elites doing the unspeakable to children), MSM is silent, yet after 2-5yrs of Q being smeared as quacks...we're now in the early stages of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial...the actual judge of the case: "the details of this case are far too disturbing for the general public". This is not a polit. post AT ALL (no reference to polit.parties/govts. were made), but rather to point out that unfamiliarity can often work against us as a society & on an individual basis.

I do respect your opinion on Oprah though, she's a flake imo. She's also part of the elite/problem.

Good discussion is healthy, thanks for your feedback. We can always learn from others whose opinions differ greatly from ours, even if neither party agree.

Back on OP Topic: @Bench, I'd still like to see a top10, or top20-25 favorite band list of yours, as requested many moons ago. It intrigues me that someone who loves Muse also likes all this other music I don't like, so I'm trying to connect the dots, possibly even FOMO on my part?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

https://truththeory.com/the-real-reason-music-has-become-so-bad-in-recent-year/

(video from article)

 

[TheOtherOne]

 

[bedtime20]

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

@Bench
Fair enough. I agree to disagree on the "pseudo-science" angle. Ayurveda, being a prime example, as it saved my life, removed/flushed over 70+ stones from my ailing liver. People mock what they don't understand and/or have no experience in/with.

Now, that's not to say there isn't actual pseudo-science quacks out there too. Astrology for example. Entertaing, sure, even often coincidental, but trusted road map to the future? No!

I keep a very open mind. Even now there are some/many that aren't even aware of the Jeffrey Epstein ordeal (Elites doing the unspeakable to children), MSM is silent, yet after 2-5yrs of Q being smeared as quacks...we're now in the early stages of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial...the actual judge of the case: "the details of this case are far too disturbing for the general public". This is not a polit. post AT ALL (no reference to polit.parties/govts. were made), but rather to point out that unfamiliarity can often work against us as a society & on an individual basis.

I do respect your opinion on Oprah though, she's a flake imo. She's also part of the elite/problem.

Good discussion is healthy, thanks for your feedback. We can always learn from others whose opinions differ greatly from ours, even if neither party agree.

Back on OP Topic: @Bench, I'd still like to see a top10, or top20-25 favorite band list of yours, as requested many moons ago. It intrigues me that someone who loves Muse also likes all this other music I don't like, so I'm trying to connect the dots, possibly even FOMO on my part?

I will say that Bench isn't mocking what he doesn't understand here. He's just saying that without empirical data to back it up and controls put on it, you have no idea that the music is what caused that. That's why things like Ayurveda are not looked on kindly. Men of science like to be able to look at something and explain "I did A, therefore B happened." because then that is repeatable. I eat more calories than I burn? I get bigger. I eat less calories than I burn, I get smaller.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I will say that Bench isn't mocking what he doesn't understand here. He's just saying that without empirical data to back it up and controls put on it, you have no idea that the music is what caused that. That's why things like Ayurveda are not looked on kindly. Men of science like to be able to look at something and explain "I did A, therefore B happened." because then that is repeatable. I eat more calories than I burn? I get bigger. I eat less calories than I burn, I get smaller.

@Lil Sebastian Cossa Thanks for the feedback.

I understand correlation/causation. But often times (on many subjects) science can't explain/nor duplicate things that already exist & work/have worked.

Great Pyramids of Giza for example & dozens of other man made ancient structures. While in scientific fields like Quantum Physics we don't have the technology to duplicate/replicate theories.

With 95%++ of ancient knowledge destroyed at the Library of Alexandria, we kinda started from scratch (again). There are too many ancient texts, scrolls, structures, artifacts that are evidence of things beyond our current understanding. Also many scientists disagree with each others' hypotheses on virtually any subject. So the SME's are usually the go-to, but what if/when they're somewhat off base, if not totally wrong?

Back on topic: I also don't understand why as a society, if we're supposed to be evolving, if not awakening spiritually etc., i.e. not the misogynistic / male dominated societies of the past, then why do those same people (typically under age ~40) listen to rap/hip-hop/r&b, which have unusually high references (vs. other music genres) to & often glority: domestic violence "pimps vs. hoes" so to speak, other violence, baby-daddy/mama drama, prostitution, gambling, drug dealing, drugs 'n alcohol & other nefarious activities from the den of iniquity. Are those rap/hip-hop/r&b artists just expressing the problems of their own individual realm/culture in song lyrics? Some of this thinking may sound stereotypical, but there's a reason stereotypes exist (right or wrong). Or is it b/c folks ~40 & under grew up with it & it was the norm by then? Probably an amalgamation of all of the above is my guess. But I'd welcome feeback from @Lil Sebastian Cossa & @Bench & anyone else on why? Just tryin' to connect the dots from my Gen-X perspective to the Rap Gen. perspective...(Mumble Rap Gen. is light years away in the opposite direction).

I haven't listened to this since '93/94 when I bought the cd (the only rap/HH/r&b cd I ever bought). I was surprised it wasn't too bad (for what it is), just not my type of music.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I haven’t seen this one in years but I remember this being my last bad winter in Michigan.

 

[Electric Eric]

[B]Back on topic: [/B] I also don't understand why as a society, if we're supposed to be evolving, if not awakening spiritually etc., i.e. not the misogynistic / male dominated societies of the past, then why do those same people ([I]typically[/I] [U]under[/U] age ~40) listen to rap/hip-hop/r&b, which have unusually high references (vs. other music genres) to & often glority: domestic violence "pimps vs. hoes" so to speak, other violence, baby-daddy/mama drama, prostitution, gambling, drug dealing, drugs 'n alcohol & other nefarious activities from the den of iniquity. Are those rap/hip-hop/r&b artists just expressing the problems of their own individual realm/culture in song lyrics? Some of this thinking may sound stereotypical, but there's a reason stereotypes exist (right or wrong). Or is it b/c folks ~40 & under grew up with it & it was the norm by then? Probably an amalgamation of all of the above is my guess. But I'd welcome feeback from [USER=167853]@Lil Sebastian Cossa & @Bench & anyone else on why? Just tryin' to connect the dots from my Gen-X perspective to the Rap Gen. perspective...(Mumble Rap Gen. is light years away in the opposite direction).

I haven't listened to this since '93/94 when I bought the cd (the only rap/HH/r&b cd I ever bought). I was surprised it wasn't too bad (for what it is), just not my type of music.

[/USER]

Honestly, it sounds like you've got some blinders on. I won't argue against there being a lot of misogynistic and problematic lyrics in rap but there's a whole lot of rap that doesn't have that problem. Along similar lines theres a lot of rock music that has just as many issues lyrically.

 

[Bench]

Along similar lines theres a lot of rock music that has just as many issues lyrically.

Classic rock, aka thinly veiled references to hard drugs and banging barely legal teens.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Honestly, it sounds like you've got some blinders on. I won't argue against there being a lot of misogynistic and problematic lyrics in rap but there's a whole lot of rap that doesn't have that problem. Along similar lines theres a lot of rock music that has just as many issues lyrically.

I don't disagree that there are references to such activities in numerous genres, but I'd argue that there's more in Rap/HH/R&b than it's counterparts/predecessors. I'd like to see a 3rd party, peer reviewed study with verifiable data on it. I'd bet @jaster's lunch money on it.

 

[Electric Eric]

I don't disagree that there are references to such activities in numerous genres, but I'd argue that there's more in Rap/HH/R&b than it's counterparts/predecessors. I'd like to see a 3rd party, peer reviewed study with verifiable data on it. I'd bet @jaster's lunch money on it.

This study would seem to agree with you.
Literal lyrics? The effects of sex, violence and misogyny in popular music

They discovered that instances of sexualization dramatically increased in lyrics during the ‘90s and 2000s. Hall attributes this escalation to two main factors: parental advisory laws passed in 1985 and the rise of rap music.

Now my personal bias comes into play here cause this study was done at BYU and that school tends to have some very thin skin at best so I'm not entirely convinced.

This one only seems to reference violence and says pop is equal to rap in that regard.
A bad rap: New study finds pop lyrics contain just as many references to violence as hip-hop music | News Bureau, University of Missouri

An analysis of a decade of music reveals that pop and hip-hop are the most aggressive genres, country remains the most peaceful

This one has some graphics showing rap music references drugs a whole lot more than other genres which doesn't surprise me.

Rap vs Rock: Which References Drugs, Alcohol Most? - Hypebot


Curious to how much the discrepancy is simply due to the rise of rap in popularity. Way more rap artists/groups in the top 100 these days.

My conclusion: I have no idea. I'm an engineer, not a sociologist. Feel free to eat Jasters lunch lol.


Side note, found this study and just thought it was cool. Shows the positive affects of music on youth:
Logic's song '1-800-273-8255' saved lives from suicide, study finds
Logic's song '1-800-273-8255' saved lives from suicide, study finds - CNN

 

[Bench]

country remains the most peaceful

Oh so we're just going to ignore a man with a complete lack of social graces showing up to a black tie affair and stealing a glass of champagne?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

This study would seem to agree with you.
Literal lyrics? The effects of sex, violence and misogyny in popular music


Now my personal bias comes into play here cause this study was done at BYU and that school tends to have some very thin skin at best so I'm not entirely convinced.

This one only seems to reference violence and says pop is equal to rap in that regard.
A bad rap: New study finds pop lyrics contain just as many references to violence as hip-hop music | News Bureau, University of Missouri



This one has some graphics showing rap music references drugs a whole lot more than other genres which doesn't surprise me.

Rap vs Rock: Which References Drugs, Alcohol Most? - Hypebot


Curious to how much the discrepancy is simply due to the rise of rap in popularity. Way more rap artists/groups in the top 100 these days.

My conclusion: I have no idea. I'm an engineer, not a sociologist. Feel free to eat Jasters lunch lol.


Side note, found this study and just thought it was cool. Shows the positive affects of music on youth:
Logic's song '1-800-273-8255' saved lives from suicide, study finds
Logic's song '1-800-273-8255' saved lives from suicide, study finds - CNN

1. Good finds EE, I was busy & didn't look, so thanks.

2. (googles 'Logic' & the song '1-800-273-8255')...now that's a positive I can relate to, as many can.

3. Vehemently disagree that Country Music (which I'm also not a fan of, save for a very few old songs) is the most peaceful...I'd give that nod to Classical Music, virtually any composer/symphony/Opus/movement. HM to ganster rap /s\s

4. BYU hahahaha "[MOD]"

5. Re: "Curious to how much the discrepancy is simply due to the rise of rap in popularity. Way more rap artists/groups in the top 100 these days." Good question, so maybe if they took the top 10/20/50 or whatever # of each genre (an equal # of each), then compared the results...venturing to guess Rap/HH is higher by%. Part of that equation is the MSM champions/celebrates/sensationalizes/romanticizes it in various ways.

6. I need to look up the diff. b/w Rap vs. HH, I've always thought they were the same tbh. "Ignorant Gen-X'er" sure. Using OG/old-school examples (the only ones I know), would this be accurate? ...
Snoop & N.W.A -Rappers., Sir-Mix-Alot & Sir Humpty - Hip-Hoppers, R&B-Beyonce (yuck).

7. Socioeconomically speaking, violence & other sordid activities go hand in hand with less education & especially poverty etc. (right or wrong...not debating why that is or systemic stuff/govt./opportunity/culture/career choices/generational gaps & countless other factors).

Excellent discussion.

 

[roman star]

 

[bedtime20]

Some new stuff from the doctor

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

found out about this band ~5yrs ago via CHI goal song.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

whatever happened to these guys, they were awesome.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

RATM pt.2

 

[NervousPerson]