Sportsnet: Toronto interested in Bernier.

[TieClark]

Toronto is the worse place a goAlie could go

Why?

 

[The Wall]

Keep the first for the love of god keep the first

 

[egd27]

true and Philly has better assets to parlay. Leafs wouldn't be in this position if they drafted better.

Or if they stopped trying to parlay prospects and draft choices.

 

[7even]

Why do you think, we will sink again?

We routinely got massacred in the shot count, and made it through on great goaltending and a league-high shooting percentage. That's not enough for me to say we're going to fall on our face next year, but it's sure as hell enough for me not to trade next year's first.

Remember when it was alright to trade the 2010 1st because Kessel was going to come in and bump us into the playoffs? Yeah, lesson learned.

 

[LeafShark]

Why is Nonis willing to throw away some important assets at what is essentially a redundancy, when he can use these very same assets to plug a very crucial hole at D or C. He basically threw away a 4th to acquire a redundant Defenceman for the playoffs. If you're trying to make a run in the playoffs, you can't go cheap with rentals. Every day that passes, I lose more faith in Nonis.

 

[Duke Silver]

We routinely got massacred in the shot count, and made it through on great goaltending and a league-high shooting percentage. That's not enough for me to say we're going to fall on our face next year, but it's sure as hell enough for me not to trade next year's first.

Remember when it was alright to trade the 2010 1st because Kessel was going to come in and bump us into the playoffs? Yeah, lesson learned.

Precisely. Rarely is it ever a good idea to trade a draft pick for the next year. You never know what combination of injuries, production slumps, dressing room issues, chemistry problems and trade requests could derail a season.

 

[Rare Jewel]

We routinely got massacred in the shot count, and made it through on great goaltending and a league-high shooting percentage. That's not enough for me to say we're going to fall on our face next year, but it's sure as hell enough for me not to trade next year's first.

Remember when it was alright to trade the 2010 1st because Kessel was going to come in and bump us into the playoffs? Yeah, lesson learned.

Hardly a deterrent.

But we're not acquiring Phil Kessel here.

 

[7even]

Hardly a deterrent.

But we're not acquiring Phil Kessel here.

And therein lies my point.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

I've neither asserted his save % would drop here, nor have I made any comparisons to Toskala, so you're not right.

Sorry, I should've made it clearer I wasn't referring to you specifically with any of that, haha. Those were just some silly things I've been reading in this thread.

 

[Mess]

We routinely got massacred in the shot count, and made it through on great goaltending and a league-high shooting percentage. That's not enough for me to say we're going to fall on our face next year, but it's sure as hell enough for me not to trade next year's first.

Remember when it was alright to trade the 2010 1st because Kessel was going to come in and bump us into the playoffs? Yeah, lesson learned.

Leafs traded 2 X 1sts and a high 2nd for instant offense and ended up finishing in the bottom 5 overall in the 2 of the past 3 seasons prior to this last season.

The difference here is that the rumour is it will take a 1st rounder to acquire Bernier, but investment would be made in defense, as opposed to offense.

"Defense wins championships, and good teams are built from the goalie out".. So while I hope we can acquire Bernier without it costing us a 1st round pick, but at least I would take solace in knowing the investment is being used towards key building components.

 

[LeafShark]

Leafs traded 2 X 1sts and a high 2nd for instant offense and ended up finishing in the bottom 5 overall in the 2 of the past 3 seasons prior to this last season.

The difference here is that the rumour is it will take a 1st rounder to acquire Bernier, but investment would be made in defense, as opposed to offense.

"Defense wins championships, and good teams are built from the goalie out".. So while I hope we can acquire Bernier without it costing us a 1st round pick, but at least I would take solace in knowing the investment is being used towards key building components.

Leafs have a higher shooting percentage because they score more off of the rush. It's not like every team plays exactly the same style and every teams has to average the same amount of shots. Leafs have had a higher than average shooting % for years and years. It doesn't regress. Our goal-tending save % last season was decent at worst, but we still give up too many shots, which tells me that our D is lacking. To contend, we need to put someone beside Phaneuf, and to replace some of his minutes, because when Phaneuf plays too much, he really starts to suck.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Why is Nonis willing to throw away some important assets at what is essentially a redundancy, when he can use these very same assets to plug a very crucial hole at D or C.

Because you aren't going to get a #1C or top-pairing defenseman for Matt Frattin and a pick

 

[ALine]

Leafs traded 2 X 1sts and a high 2nd for instant offense and ended up finishing in the bottom 5 overall in the 2 of the past 3 seasons prior to this last season.

The difference here is that the rumour is it will take a 1st rounder to acquire Bernier, but investment would be made in defense, as opposed to offense.

"Defense wins championships, and good teams are built from the goalie out".. So while I hope we can acquire Bernier without it costing us a 1st round pick, but at least I would take solace in knowing the investment is being used towards key building components.

In 2010, we saw either JS Giguere, Gustavsson and Toskala. The difference is now we have Reimer, who seems to have developed/developing into a nice number one. First rounders should be used for a higher priority, like a defensemen, or just draft with it.

 

[Mess]

Leafs have a higher shooting percentage because they score more off of the rush. It's not like every team plays exactly the same style and every teams has to average the same amount of shots. Leafs have had a higher than average shooting % for years and years. It doesn't regress. Our goal-tending save % last season was decent at worst, but we still give up too many shots, which tells me that our D is lacking. To contend, we need to put someone beside Phaneuf, and to replace some of his minutes, because when Phaneuf plays too much, he really starts to suck.

A goalies rebound control is a factor in shots against and getting a goalie that might improve in that area, by catching more shots cleanly or directing shots away from dangerous areas or shooting lanes might be the very reason behind Nonis pursuing Bernier.

While our defense needs improvement, you can't ignore the high number of block shots that the present group does provide to assist the goalie and actually brings the shots against down in the process also. Its offset of course by the Leafs defense unable to move the puck out of the their own zone and give-aways that creating more opponent shots and scoring chances. The forwards are not without blame because its their defensive responsibilities to assist in clearing the zone.

 

[abdew29]

There is a ridiculous rumor circulating out there that LA Kings want Jake Gardiner in a package for Bernier and Nonis is actually thinking about it.

Just for thinking about this....FIRE NONIS!!!

 

[Mess]

In 2010, we saw either JS Giguere, Gustavsson and Toskala. The difference is now we have Reimer, who seems to have developed/developing into a nice number one. First rounders should be used for a higher priority, like a defensemen, or just draft with it.

I'd actually reverse that and say that high picks should be used to draft and develop your own talent first and foremost, and only in exceptions where they should be used as currency to address real team needs.

The days of "draft schmaft" have to end in Toronto and Leafs adopt a similar approach to many successful teams of acquiring their future talent through the draft themselves... If you're constantly forced into going to buy your talent they you need to look internally at your own scouting staff as to why that is a requirement to do so.

 

[7even]

Leafs traded 2 X 1sts and a high 2nd for instant offense and ended up finishing in the bottom 5 overall in the 2 of the past 3 seasons prior to this last season.

The difference here is that the rumour is it will take a 1st rounder to acquire Bernier, but investment would be made in defense, as opposed to offense.

"Defense wins championships, and good teams are built from the goalie out".. So while I hope we can acquire Bernier without it costing us a 1st round pick, but at least I would take solace in knowing the investment is being used towards key building components.

Law of diminishing returns. Even if we assume that Bernier can reach the upper echelon of NHL starters, a massive if, how much is a .03-.04 increase over Reimer's .924 worth?

Not a potential top 10 pick, which is what we were talking about originally.

 

[Mess]

There is a ridiculous rumor circulating out there that LA Kings want Jake Gardiner in a package for Bernier and Nonis is actually thinking about it.

Just for thinking about this....FIRE NONIS!!!

LA is allowed to ask for as much as they want for Bernier, and not until they actual receive it, is the time to question the merits of a successfully completed trade thereafter.

If GMs got fired over internet made up rumours then we wouldn't be dealing in reality but rather fantasy.

 

[Mess]

Law of diminishing returns. Even if we assume that Bernier can reach the upper echelon of NHL starters, a massive if, how much is a .03-.04 increase over Reimer's .924 worth?

Not a potential top 10 pick, which is what we were talking about originally.

No disputing that fact that its the difference that is gained in improvement from what you have to what you receive in trade to balance off against the cost of acquisition to do so.

That is however the viewpoint from the Leafs perspective.. From LA's point of view, Bernier is a promising young goalie that is highly regarded and was essentially a top 10 pick himself in his draft. LA is using him as currency to obtain an improvement themselves to their team needs in other area's.

So if they place a 1st round pick as the cost then Nonis must decide if 21st overall pick is worth that upgrade.

However not excluded from the equation is what happens to Reimer.. Perhaps Nonis has another card up his sleeve where he parlays him in trade after securing Bernier to make an improvement elsewhere. So its not only on the upgrade factor between goalies but also perhaps the upgrade in another area as well that might be the basis behind this pursuit.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Bernier only makes sense if Nonis is moving Reimer, if this is the case there are big chips being dangled. Again Kyper is not an Eklund, he is a true insider and when he posts smoke there is usually fire afterward. Nonis sounds busy, but he is not going to advertise it like Burke. Which I find quite nice after 4 years of too much talk, and only disappointment to follow.

 

[ALine]

I'd actually reverse that and say that high picks should be used to draft and develop your own talent first and foremost, and only in exceptions where they should be used as currency to address real team needs.

The days of "draft schmaft" have to end in Toronto and Leafs adopt a similar approach to many successful teams of acquiring their future talent through the draft themselves... If you're constantly forced into going to buy your talent they you need to look internally at your own scouting staff as to why that is a requirement to do so.

Yes, always look to draft first, that I agree with. There's a solid looking young goalie Fucale that could be had for a late first around 21 possibly. Or a solid young defensemen. But the immediate impact of what a first rounder could do to our defense, when you consider what we have coming in the pipe, is intriguing. Just at be end of the day I don't think we should spend our first on trading for a goalie, where the only place left to go with him is to give him starts through good and the bad. If we Need another refresher to our goalie situation, lets acquire a veteran to back up Reimer and draft one.

 

[Stats01]

Other than the Kessel trade, the Leafs have done a pretty good job of keeping their picks lately. 2008 (Schenn- Turned into JVR) 2009 -Kadri, 2010 - (None), 2011- Biggs, Percy, 2012 - Rielly

The past 5 drafts we've drafted 5 times in the first round..can't really complain about "draft schamft" anymore. This isn't the early 90's anymore or the early to mid 2000's

 

[Petes2424]

According to Kyper its MLSE boss Tim Leiweke that is linked to LA, and Bernier as someone he likes.

This putting Toronto as a front runner in acquiring him.

Leiweke is NOT a hockey guy. He's a businessman and that's where it ends. He used to run the Denver Nuggets and was "the guy" teams went to when they were after new arenas, etc. Much like Tom Wilson was for the Pistons/Lightning but at a whole new level.

 

[threeGo]

Leiweke is NOT a hockey guy. He's a businessman and that's where it ends. He used to run the Denver Nuggets and was "the guy" teams went to when they were after new arenas, etc. Much like Tom Wilson was for the Pistons/Lightning but at a whole new level.

Apparently Liewiki was very involved with his LA teams (LA fans have said this). I don't see why he wouldn't be the same here.

 

[Derek Synak]

Jon Rosen ‏@lakingsinsider 1m

Jonathan Bernier has been traded to Toronto for Matt Frattin, Ben Scrivens, and a second round pick in 2014 or 2015 (Toronto's option)

Not sure how valid, but just saw it on twitter