Value of: Toronto - Calgary (Nylander + Hamilton)

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

This i fully understand, and wonder if my original proposal "Nylander, Gardiner + 1st" was enough of an over payment from your perspective.

hilarious

 

[rent free]

Like I am remotely going to take anything you say seriously given your posting history.

i bet you haven't even seen my post history, and here you are talking about it.

keep being delusional then. you've been like that before and it won't change

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Maybe near the end of the year. Hamilton did not get 1st unit PP time for most of the season, ask any person who watched the Flames.

He still averaged 2:40 minutes of PP a game over the entire season which is heavy usage. For reference the defender on the leafs first PP unit saw 2:12 and the defender on the second unit, 2:04.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

yes, being patient is smarter than rushing to lose a trade like this and citing other bad trades as evidence for it being the right thing to do

let's try something around Marner (Hall) for Hamonic (Larsson). Leafs did lose in the first round so it's time for a shakeup

I dont understand your logic. Are you comparing Larsson and Hamonic to Hamilton? I think you will find that the majority of people that dont have leaf coloured goggles on know Hamilton is in a league of his own in this comparison.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

At least Hamilton can play defense, Gardiner just costed you a game in the series. So put that 52 point narrative away, he’s not a forward. Gardiner at this point is just a throw in, you guys don’t even want him anymore. Maybe a team will throw a 2nd rounder for him.

This is just soo wrong lol. Nylander>Monohan just wait you will see eventually.

 

[Baksfamous112]

No response to my comparison to Forsberg and Scheif?

Because it’s irrelevant.

what do you mean by sure? do you not agree with what i said? i said a fact and a hypothetical situation to support my argument.

Not at all. It was all hypothetical and you’re only hoping this is going to happen. What if he reached his offensive upside already and never play C? He hasn’t progressed since he’s been in the league. Has he been consistent? Yes! Progressed? No! He then only worth a 60 pts soft winger

matthews didn't score 40 and 34 goals in his first two seasons? that's the guy nylander is playing with on one line.

And yet he could only put 60 pts/season

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I dont understand your logic. Are you comparing Larsson and Hamonic to Hamilton? I think you will find that the majority of people that dont have leaf coloured goggles on know Hamilton is in a league of his own in this comparison.

the logic is that you used the Duchene trade as a rationale for this mess, and I was pointing out that using dumb trades to justify another dumb trade isn't the best

 

[Critical13]

Because it’s irrelevant.



Not at all. It was all hypothetical and you’re only hoping this is going to happen. What if he reached his offensive upside already and never play C? He hasn’t progressed since he’s been in the league. Has he been consistent? Yes! Progressed? No! He then only worth a 60 pts soft winger



And yet he could only put 60 pts/season

How is it irrelevant?

Those are his comparables, and he's on par with them. Haha, your bias opinion is far less relevant than actual stats.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I dont understand your logic. Are you comparing Larsson and Hamonic to Hamilton? I think you will find that the majority of people that dont have leaf coloured goggles on know Hamilton is in a league of his own in this comparison.

this is soo funny, Larsson/Hamonic were both considered as good or better than Hamilton at 1 point. So those 2 trades now show even more that trading Nylander for Hamilton is a bad idea. Plus Hamilton may be a lockerroom cancer. I have no interest in Hamilton unless its for a 1st+2nd+prospect. even then I would rather go after an other guy.

 

[rent free]

Because it’s irrelevant.



Not at all. It was all hypothetical and you’re only hoping this is going to happen. What if he reached his offensive upside already and never play C? He hasn’t progressed since he’s been in the league. Has he been consistent? Yes! Progressed? No! He then only worth a 60 pts soft winger

what if he didn't reach his offensive ceiling? he is still young and can improve no doubt. another thing, its only been 1 season where he hasn't progressed because he's only played 2 seasons. progression isn't linear.

And yet he could only put 60 pts/season

he was injured for 20 games. 63 points in 62 games is realistic.

 

[CraigsList]

This i fully understand, and wonder if my original proposal "Nylander, Gardiner + 1st" was enough of an over payment from your perspective.

I personally don’t mind it, maybe we add a prospect. But, your fellow Leaf fans never rate their players on their true potential. They rate them as elite PPG players that haven’t even done that consistently.

 

[Baksfamous112]

How is it irrelevant?

Those are his comparables, and he's on par with them. Haha, your bias opinion is far less relevant than actual stats.

Because it’s not everyone who has the same learning curve and some reaches their ceiling at 19-20-21-22 while other reaches their ceiling at 23-24-25-26.

Take Ovy/Crosby for example. They put up 100ish point has 19 years old. Did they ever « got better » and put up 130-150 points? No. I put Nylander in that category. He’s been great ever since he joined the league but he has already reached his offensive ceiling. He’s been consistent ever since he joined the league and he is going to be a 60-70 points winger his whole carreer and there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t know why you get all offended by that

 

[Baksfamous112]

he was injured for 20 games. 63 points in 62 games is realistic.

Is that how it works now? Because if that’s the case Weber broke his ankle on game #1 and still managed to put 16 points. So, techcnically, he’s a 16 PPG #1D now.

 

[rent free]

Is that how it works now? Because if that’s the case Weber broke his ankle on game #1 and still managed to put 16 points. So, techcnically, he’s a 16 PPG #1D now.

your example makes absolutely no sense in general, and in terms of what we are discussing. shea weber played 26 games and accumulated 16 points. how did you reach the consensus that he is a 16 PPG #1D?

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

this is soo funny, Larsson/Hamonic were both considered as good or better than Hamilton at 1 point. So those 2 trades now show even more that trading Nylander for Hamilton is a bad idea. Plus Hamilton may be a lockerroom cancer. I have no interest in Hamilton unless its for a 1st+2nd+prospect. even then I would rather go after an other guy.

This is news to me.
Larsson at the time of his trade wasnt even playing on the top pair and had a career high of 3 goals and 24 points. The entire NHL knew this was a horrible deal.

Hamilton spent the entirety of last season playing on the top pair. Had 17 goals and 44 points. Had 50, 43 and 42 points before that. I think you need to re-visit your evaluation techniques.

 

[Flameshomer]

I would do this trade as proposed. Nothing less than that for Hamilton.

1 for 1 starts and ends with Marner.

 

[Baksfamous112]

your example makes absolutely no sense in general, and in terms of what we are discussing. shea weber played 26 games and accumulated 16 points. how did you reach the consensus that he is a 16 PPG #1D?

Well, you deducted 20 games from Nylander’s total game just because he played injured and said « 63 pts in 61 games is more realistic ».

Well, Weber played all but one game injury free and he got 16 pts. So there you go, I took out the other 25 games because he played injured just like you did. He’s a 16 PPG player according to you and how you see things

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well, you deducted 20 games from Nylander’s total game just because he played injured and said « 63 pts in 61 games is more realistic ».

Well, Weber played all but one game injury free and he got 16 pts. So there you go, I took out the other 25 games because he played injured just like you did. He’s a 16 PPG player according to you and how you see things

Pretty sure it was about Matthews

 

[Tkachuky]

this is soo funny, Larsson/Hamonic were both considered as good or better than Hamilton at 1 point. So those 2 trades now show even more that trading Nylander for Hamilton is a bad idea. Plus Hamilton may be a lockerroom cancer. I have no interest in Hamilton unless its for a 1st+2nd+prospect. even then I would rather go after an other guy.

So essentially you believe Hamilton's value is the same it was when he was trade to Calgary? ok then.

 

[Jared Dunn]

NHL works a lot on precedent when negotiating trades and contracts. If we use the most recent Duchene trade as an example.

Duchene

for

OTT 2019 1st
NSH 2nd
OTT 3rd-
Shane Bowers (1st)
Vladislav Kamanev (2nd)
Sam Girard (2nd)

Yes, but you understand that trade was TERRIBLE for Ottawa right? And now you want your team to willingly sign up for the same thing?

 

[Tkachuky]

Still waiting to hear what defensmen the leaf fans would trade Nylander for in a FAIR 1 for 1 trade....

 

[rent free]

Well, you deducted 20 games from Nylander’s total game just because he played injured and said « 63 pts in 61 games is more realistic ».

Well, Weber played all but one game injury free and he got 16 pts. So there you go, I took out the other 25 games because he played injured just like you did. He’s a 16 PPG player according to you and how you see things

i didn't deduct 20 games from nylander at all. i was referring to matthews when i said that. you got confused. why would i "deduct 20 games from nylander's total game"? he wasn't even hurt.

 

[rent free]

Still waiting to hear what defensmen the leaf fans would trade Nylander for in a FAIR 1 for 1 trade....

how is that going to be possible when leaf fans vs the rest of hf have a different opinion on what a fair 1 for 1 trade for nylander is?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Still waiting to hear what defensmen the leaf fans would trade Nylander for in a FAIR 1 for 1 trade....

Have you considered that the leafs don't want to get fair value for him because they expect him to increase his value?

 

[Jared Dunn]

Still waiting to hear what defensmen the leaf fans would trade Nylander for in a FAIR 1 for 1 trade....

I don't think there's a good answer for that until we can be sure whether he's a center or not. Right now he's probably a bit below Hamilton level but could easily make strides this year