Value of: Toronto - Calgary (Nylander + Hamilton)

[Brock Radunske]

This is the problem discussing value with some Leaf fans. Their 60 point player for some reason has 80 point value. Not that there isn’t potential left in Nylander but the same can be said for the defenseman who is only 2 years older.

This is the problem with discussing the value of Leafs fans with people who have an agenda.
They assume that a player who has been in the league for two seasons won't improve to fit their flawed narrative

 

[CraigsList]

Here we go again with the overrating of Nylander.

And no, Hamilton isn’t on the block. Not sure how many times it’ll take to get into everyone’s heads that we’re just listening and will only, ONLY trade him if we’re getting overpayment.

Additionally, Hamilton has been getting better and better every year, with 3 years left on a steal of a deal contract. You best believe you’d be adding. And don’t think you can’t get him without Nylander or Marner. We don’t want your crap prospects/late 1st as the base.

 

[X66]

And the very first post is why Leaf fans will never be taken seriously. Nylander is not going to be worth more than Hamilton. This would be like me saying Tkachuk by next year could be worth more than Matthews alone, you just have to hold onto him until then.

Matthews is on another level than Nylander, Tkachuk and Hamilton, no point in including him in this conversation.

The point is, when you're trading an elite asset in Nylander, and very good Dman + a 1st round pick, that is a lot to gut out of organization.

Nylander is already tracking very well, it would be silly to overlook his potential.

Hamilton is a solid piece to add to any team, but not at that cost, not today at least.

 

[Liferleafer]

And the very first post is why Leaf fans will never be taken seriously. Nylander is not going to be worth more than Hamilton. This would be like me saying Tkachuk by next year could be worth more than Matthews alone, you just have to hold onto him until then.

Ok, so "maybe" Hamilton is worth more than Nylander....is he worth a 52 point Dman+1st more??

 

[Flamesjustwin]

This is the problem with discussing the value of Leafs fans with people who have an agenda.
They assume that a player who has been in the league for two seasons won't improve to fit their flawed narrative

Nobody is saying that. Even if Nylander becomes a 70-80 point winger he is a pure offensive winger and still won't have the value of a 24 year old also improving RHD man who led the NHL in goals scored by a D man without hardly any PP time. So when all is said and done and both develop to their potential you have a 70-80 point offensive winger vs a 60-70 point two way RHD. In no universe does the forward have more value.

 

[Critical13]

Sure.

No response to my comparison to Forsberg and Scheif?

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Ok, so "maybe" Hamilton is worth more than Nylander....is he worth a 52 point Dman+1st more??

No, I agree with that. I think Hamilton plus the late 1st for Nylander is fair value. I don't want the Flames to move Hamilton though.

 

[CraigsList]

Ok, so "maybe" Hamilton is worth more than Nylander....is he worth a 52 point Dman+1st more??

At least Hamilton can play defense, Gardiner just costed you a game in the series. So put that 52 point narrative away, he’s not a forward. Gardiner at this point is just a throw in, you guys don’t even want him anymore. Maybe a team will throw a 2nd rounder for him.

 

[Liferleafer]

NHL works a lot on precedent when negotiating trades and contracts. If we use the most recent Duchene trade as an example.

Duchene

for

OTT 2019 1st
NSH 2nd
OTT 3rd-
Shane Bowers (1st)
Vladislav Kamanev (2nd)
Sam Girard (2nd)

Looking for a 22 year old back to back 60+pont player...nope.
Looking for a 52 point Dman.....nope.
Well, you did get the 1st rounder in there.

And no, i can guarantee you that if Calgary called Dubas with this offer, Dubas wouldn't say "well, because of the Duchene trade, i have to do yhis".

 

[Liferleafer]

At least Hamilton can play defense, Gardiner just costed you a game in the series. So put that 52 point narrative away, he’s not a forward.

Gardiner played a bad game??? Like 1 whole bad game??? Well blow me down, i guess you're right, those 52 points mean nothing!!!

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Nobody is saying that. Even if Nylander becomes a 70-80 point winger he is a pure offensive winger and still won't have the value of a 24 year old also improving RHD man who led the NHL in goals scored by a D man without hardly any PP time. So when all is said and done and both develop to their potential you have a 70-80 point offensive winger vs a 60-70 point two way RHD. In no universe does the forward have more value.

???? Hamilton played 2 minutes and 40 seconds of PP a game.

 

[rent free]

Sure.

what do you mean by sure? do you not agree with what i said? i said a fact and a hypothetical situation to support my argument.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

why should the Leafs use a bad trade as a model for what they would do exactly? I guess we should move Liljegren (Forsberg) for Brouwer (Erat) next

a reactionary trade where the Leafs give up way too much value just because you're sad that the Leafs lost in the playoffs isn't smart, sorry.

I assume you are one of the Dermott is the saviour people? Lets be patient? Leafs are built like the pens and hawks? Keep dreaming and maybe your dreams will come true.

 

[kindalaidback]

Sure.

matthews didn't score 40 and 34 goals in his first two seasons? that's the guy nylander is playing with on one line.

 

[CraigsList]

Gardiner played a bad game??? Like 1 whole bad game??? Well blow me down, i guess you're right, those 52 points mean nothing!!!

They really don’t if he can’t even half-ass play defense.

 

[TS Quint]

This is the problem with discussing the value of Leafs fans with people who have an agenda.
They assume that a player who has been in the league for two seasons won't improve to fit their flawed narrative

Maybe your “agenda” is getting in the way of your reading. I said there is potential with Nylander. The poster doesn’t want to give the 24 year old defenseman who he considers already a top pair the same credit.

 

[Liferleafer]

I assume you are one of the Dermott is the saviour people? Lets be patient? Leafs are built like the pens and hawks? Keep dreaming and maybe your dreams will come true.

Correct. f*** your optimism Leafs fans....this guy knows the truth!!! The Leafs are doomed!!!

These threads are such a blast...."You don't like my lopsided proposal??? Well your team sucks anyways!!!".

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I assume you are one of the Dermott is the saviour people? Lets be patient? Leafs are built like the pens and hawks? Keep dreaming and maybe your dreams will come true.

yes, being patient is smarter than rushing to lose a trade like this and citing other bad trades as evidence for it being the right thing to do

let's try something around Marner (Hall) for Hamonic (Larsson). Leafs did lose in the first round so it's time for a shakeup

 

[Ziggdiezan]

At least Hamilton can play defense, Gardiner just costed you a game in the series. So put that 52 point narrative away, he’s not a forward. Gardiner at this point is just a throw in, you guys don’t even want him anymore. Maybe a team will throw a 2nd rounder for him.

Lol so deluded...

 

[rent free]

Nobody is saying that. Even if Nylander becomes a 70-80 point winger he is a pure offensive winger and still won't have the value of a 24 year old also improving RHD man who led the NHL in goals scored by a D man without hardly any PP time. So when all is said and done and both develop to their potential you have a 70-80 point offensive winger vs a 60-70 point two way RHD. In no universe does the forward have more value.

you are delusional if you think hamilton will be a 60-70 point two way D. he doesn't have the ability to do it and he's a weak defender that may possibly get better in his own zone, unlikely though.

 

[Liferleafer]

They really don’t if he can’t even half-ass play defense.

Translation, i have never watched Jake Gardiner play. Question, Hamilton ever have a bad game? Or is he the second coming of Bobby Orr? Because if your pathetic reasoning to knock Jake Gardiner down is a bad game 7 in the playoffs....then maybe someone might ask if Hamilton is so much better, why exactly wasn't he in the playoffs?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

They really don’t if he can’t even half-ass play defense.

I would wager you didn't even watch the leaf Boston series and probably don't watch the Leafs play much during the regular season. Instead you just peddle some BS narrative you heard from others.

Gardiner's poor defensively abilities are extremely overblown on this website. I doubt if he was as bad as people say he would have lead the Leafs in ATOI at even strength while having tougher zone usage than guys like Hamilton.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

you are delusional if you think hamilton will be a 60-70 point two way D. he doesn't have the ability to do it and he's a weak defender that may possibly get better in his own zone, unlikely though.

Like I am remotely going to take anything you say seriously given your posting history.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Here we go again with the overrating of Nylander.

And no, Hamilton isn’t on the block. Not sure how many times it’ll take to get into everyone’s heads that we’re just listening and will only, ONLY trade him if we’re getting overpayment.

Additionally, Hamilton has been getting better and better every year, with 3 years left on a steal of a deal contract. You best believe you’d be adding. And don’t think you can’t get him without Nylander or Marner. We don’t want your crap prospects/late 1st as the base.

This i fully understand, and wonder if my original proposal "Nylander, Gardiner + 1st" was enough of an over payment from your perspective.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

???? Hamilton played 2 minutes and 40 seconds of PP a game.

Maybe near the end of the year. Hamilton did not get 1st unit PP time for most of the season, ask any person who watched the Flames.