Confirmed Trade: [TOR/COL] Tyson Barrie (@50%) , A. Kerfoot, '20 6th for Nazem Kadri, C. Rosen, '20 3rd - Pt.2

[Halla]

I’d assume Dubas knows what Barrie is looking for contract wise, but it’s unclear whether Dubas is looking to sign Barrie to that.

Leafs probably would have to deal Nylander to re-sign Barrie, and I can’t fathom the Leafs swapping Kadri + Nylander out for Barrie.

you realize a nylander move would probably result in more talent coming back right?

there is no way they dump Nylander for pure cap

 

[Liferleafer]

Wrong. I remember one guy did it in Buffalo. Not sure if it was Meyers or Risto.
But it‘s the only one I can think of.

Risto did it IIRC.

 

[Liferleafer]

There is not a chance the leafs are gonna be worse in GA with Barrie gobbling up Hainseys top 4 mins...like not a chance. He isn't great in his own end but the play will be in the other end a lot more with him than hainsey

This is my take as well. That and as bad as Ceci may be, i highly doubt he'll ice the puck as much as Zaitsev...

 

[FelixPotvin29]

Going from a top 4 of
Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
To
Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci

That's not getting worse. It ain't great, but it's not worse.

Probably going to be

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin- Barrie

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm still not sure why Barrie had to go and not Erik Johnson.

EJ is probably pretty close to untradeable because of his contract. Plus to top it off he has a NMC.

 

[Liferleafer]

Probably going to be

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin- Barrie

I don't see how, Barrie has logged top pair minutes...Ceci has not.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

I don't see how, Barrie has logged top pair minutes...Ceci has not.

I know it’s not logical just a gut feeling

I hope it’s Rielly- Barrie too

 

[7even]

I know it’s not logical just a gut feeling

I hope it’s Rielly- Barrie too

I'd prefer:

Muzzin - Barrie
Rielly - Dermott
Ceci - some guy

You can play your top two pairs pretty evenly, shelter the f*** out of the bottom pair.

 

[cgf]

I remember some posters saying they wouldn't do pick 16 for both Kadri and Marleau....or only offering up EJ in a Kadri deal.
Personally I would have been OK with a Jost +16 type deal for Naz with the cap space saved used to keep Gards

Some surely didn't, we're not as big a fanbase as y'all but we're no monolith either. But #16 for Kadri+Marleau was very popular on our board if you didn't want EJ. Adding Jost instead of taking on Marleau would be a big difference from our end, however, so that would have gotten worse reactions from avs fans.


I'm not as high on Jost as some in our fanbase are...I think his skating will be limiting, especially in our system...but he was playing really well as our 3C down the stretch & into the playoffs; when he wasn't getting worn down by top 6 minutes or having to deal with as many elite skaters as a top6er does; and is still young enough to make big strides. So he's a guy that a lot of other Avs fans didn't want to give up until we saw if he would take that next step next season.

Personally I wanted to move Jost for Zucker & then use 16 on Kadri+Marleau, but I also wanted Joe to start building up our 2nd line last summer, so that we didn't need as much this summer...but since we didn't do that I really wanted 2 legit top 6ers out of this offseason and didn't mind risking Jost "breaking out" somewhere else. But mine was a minority opinion on HFavs.


And losing Gardiner is a serious blow...I would love if Joe was able to swoop in & get him for us on a 6-6.5 per deal that expired in 2023 (when we'll have to pay MacK), to backfill for our top 4...but your blueline is quite a bit better with Tyson having joined despite having lost Gardiner. So I like this iteration much more for Dubas than the more futuresy alternative scenario.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

EJ is probably pretty close to untradeable because of his contract. Plus to top it off he has a NMC.

With the way Sakic came out and talked about re-signing people, I'm personally convinced it also partially had to do with Barrie's future cost. Is Barrie @ say 9mil versus EJ for 6mil a logical decision? EJ isn't as bad as Avs fans make him out to be and he's significantly better defensively. EJ plays a key role on this team until the kids develop. Barrie could theoretically be replaced by Makar and Girard next season.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Well, it's not like we had a menu to choose from. Apparently there was Subban (cap didn't work)...Brodie (Kadri killed that) and then Barrie.

Ya, a D 1st guy would be ideal, but Dubas is working in a phone booth here, and nothing says he's done.

I'm guess Babcock didn't want PK. Barrie is going to command the same.

EJ is probably pretty close to untradeable because of his contract. Plus to top it off he has a NMC.

Had no idea, and of course he does. SMH, these contracts are a virus.

 

[shortfuze]

I agree but there's one dark cloud: Morgan Rielly is the only dman on the roster currently signed past this coming season. Dubas has done a great job filling gaps and shedding cap but there's no doubt we will be rebuildung this D core again next offseason. Muzzin and Barrie will not be affordable.

Dubas won’t let both of them walk. Maybe one but definitely not both.

 

[EXPECT THE LEAFS]

Avs got a real one in Kadri... I'll tell you that much.

 

[cgf]

With the way Sakic came out and talked about re-signing people, I'm personally convinced it also partially had to do with Barrie's future cost. Is Barrie @ say 9mil versus EJ for 6mil a logical decision? EJ isn't as bad as Avs fans make him out to be and he's significantly better defensively. EJ plays a key role on this team until the kids develop. Barrie could theoretically be replaced by Makar and Girard next season.

That's an easy choice. Barrie even it takes 9M, though I still think he'll come in under 8.5per. But for that to be the choice, Joe would need to be willing to move EJ for a more sensibly priced #3 RB...which I suspect he is not.

EJ filled the same role that Cole did for us last season; he didn't play 25 minutes a night while making each & every player he stepped onto the ice with demonstrably more effective. That's what Tyson did for us down the stretch & into the playoffs, even with Makar there already eating up over 17 minutes a night.

And it isn't Tyson vs Makar, it's Tyson + Makar vs just Makar. Our blueline became an advantage once we could replace one with the other for over 42 minutes a night; not letting up the transitional onslaught until EJ's pairing came out to get pinned in their own zone.

So Cale can't just replace Barrie and make everything better; we'd also need someone to replace what we got out of Cale...and that shouldn't be EJ anymore unless we want the next 4 years of salary owed to that Kondor to turn into an Albatross right-f***ing-quick.

 

[Legion34]

I don't see how, Barrie has logged top pair minutes...Ceci has not.

Wasnt CEci Ottawa’s top D who was pitted against the best players?

 

[Rolo]

Going from a top 4 of
Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
To
Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci

That's not getting worse. It ain't great, but it's not worse.

Why do fans conveniently leave out Gardiner?

The Leafs went from -

Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

to

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci
Harpur?-Dermott

Hainsey>Harpur
Zaitsev>Ceci
Barrie>Gardiner

Not to mention

Kadri>Kerfoot
Marleau>Spezza
Brown>who ever replaces him

 

[cgf]

It’s definitely an upgrade skill and talent wise, there’s no doubt there. But gentlemen you cannot win on talent alone...

While Barrie/Ceci are better players than Hainsey/Zaitsev, their addition does not make the Leafs better at stopping opposing teams defensively, which is what the leafs really needed.

Of course it does. Other teams can't score nearly as well if they're busy defending in their own zone and exhausted from constantly losing puck-races & being run ragged in transition.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Why do fans conveniently leave out Gardiner?

The Leafs went from -

Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

to

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci
Harpur?-Dermott

Hainsey>Harpur
Zaitsev>Ceci
Barrie>Gardiner

Not to mention

Kadri>Kerfoot
Marleau>Spezza
Brown>who ever replaces him

Addition by subtraction kadri minutes will now go to Matthew's and tavares. Dermott will also play a bigger role and our left and right shot d man got balanced more.We also have marlies vying for spots and also added a defensive center in nick shore.

Leafs got better overall for sure.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I don't see how, Barrie has logged top pair minutes...Ceci has not.

Except he hasn't really.. 87th among defensemen in even strength icetime per game last season (with 64% o-zone starts), and absolutely no PK time. He was 2nd in the NHL in powerplay icetime.

Barrie is not the player you want playing significant minutes against the other teams top lines.

Ceci is actually the one with experience playing big minutes at even strength against tough competition (not very well unfortunately, and more so due to circumstances)

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Why do fans conveniently leave out Gardiner?

The Leafs went from -

Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

to

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci
Harpur?-Dermott

Hainsey>Harpur
Zaitsev>Ceci
Barrie>Gardiner

Not to mention

Kadri>Kerfoot
Marleau>Spezza
Brown>who ever replaces him

C...c....c.c.c.apspace.
Marleau, Brown and Kadri cap was needed out of the bottom6. Not to mention all 3 had very subpar years... even with bottom6 matchups.
Zaitsev , Hainsey and Gardiner have no business in a top4....and are /will command more money than we can handle.


Our offense is better by subtracting and replacing internally/cheap contracts.

And our defense...one that you likely mocked last year.. . Was ready for a shake up, we obtained a solid top 4 and some "prove it" guys. Ceci will flourish in Toronto if given the chance... just watch.

 

[garyturner3]

Why do fans conveniently leave out Gardiner?

The Leafs went from -

Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

to

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci
Harpur?-Dermott

Hainsey>Harpur
Zaitsev>Ceci
Barrie>Gardiner

Not to mention

Kadri>Kerfoot
Marleau>Spezza
Brown>who ever replaces him

On paper, before you factor in where the d-men were slotted, I agree our D hasn't really improved from last year. But after Muzzin arrived Babcock refused to play one of our stronger LD on the right side and essentially wasted Gardiner on the bottom pairing. So the fact that we're now going to be able to play a quality RHD in big minute situations over Hainsey is a MASSIVE improvement to our overall D core. At times over the last few years opposing teams realized all three of our RHD were weak and had a gameplan to consistently dump the puck to the right side because they knew we had no puck movers over there. Barrie eliminates that problem.

Zaitsev and Ceci are basically a wash as well. Both probably not as bad as fans make them out to be because they're miscast, but both capable of playing quality sheltered minutes.

 

[Rolo]

On paper, before you factor in where the d-men were slotted, I agree our D hasn't really improved from last year. But after Muzzin arrived Babcock refused to play one of our stronger LD on the right side and essentially wasted Gardiner on the bottom pairing. So the fact that we're now going to be able to play a quality RHD in big minute situations over Hainsey is a MASSIVE improvement to our overall D core. At times over the last few years opposing teams realized all three of our RHD were weak and had a gameplan to consistently dump the puck to the right side because they knew we had no puck movers over there. Barrie eliminates that problem.

Zaitsev and Ceci are basically a wash as well. Both probably not as bad as fans make them out to be because they're miscast, but both capable of playing quality sheltered minutes.

Very good response to my critiscim, I can see how Barrie would help balance out the top 4.

 

[vanarchy]

I think it's a good deal for both sides.

I just don't get the logic behind trading your cost-controlled quality player over your overpaid underperformer when in a cap crunch. Unless the offers just weren't there?

 

[Menzinger]

I think it's a good deal for both sides.

I just don't get the logic behind trading your cost-controlled quality player over your overpaid underperformer when in a cap crunch. Unless the offers just weren't there?

Age and underlying numbers suggest Nylander rebounds, while Kadri may be on the decline.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Why do fans conveniently leave out Gardiner?

The Leafs went from -

Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

to

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci
Harpur?-Dermott

Hainsey>Harpur
Zaitsev>Ceci
Barrie>Gardiner

Not to mention

Kadri>Kerfoot
Marleau>Spezza
Brown>who ever replaces him

All Leaf fans were aware that our forwards were going to have to get worse in order to improve the backend. and that is what happened