Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[Leafs1991]

Depending how he performs 5-6m? I know they floated 8m but that's insane. Jake Gardiner is better all around or was before his back injury.

Lol, you actually think Gardiner is a better defenseman after watching Barrie so far this year?

 

[thewave]

Lol, you actually think Gardiner is a better defenseman after watching Barrie so far this year?

Depends how you look at a Dman. So far it's looked like he got us out of trouble and going the other way with more ease. We are talking healthy Jake here, not bad back Jake. Barrie got a lot of hype in Colorado, we'll see if the real Barrie game holds up to the scrutiny of a hockey market with the most hockey professionals per capita in the world.

You actually think you can tell anything from like 5 start of the season games? Lol

 

[Tak7]

Depends how you look at a Dman. So far it's looked like he got us out of trouble and going the other way with more ease. We are talking healthy Jake here, not bad back Jake. Barrie got a lot of hype in Colorado, we'll see if the real Barrie game holds up to the scrutiny of a hockey market with the most hockey professionals per capita in the world.

You actually think you can tell anything from like 5 start of the season games? Lol

Not 5 games, no.

But from their overall body of work and performances?

I'm picking Barrie every time.

How people still defend Jake The Mistake around here is beyond me - flashy player who constantly struggled in his own end far more than he contributed up the ice. Not to mention he melted at just hearing the word PRESSURE

 

[Leafs1991]

Depends how you look at a Dman. So far it's looked like he got us out of trouble and going the other way with more ease. We are talking healthy Jake here, not bad back Jake. Barrie got a lot of hype in Colorado, we'll see if the real Barrie game holds up to the scrutiny of a hockey market with the most hockey professionals per capita in the world.

You actually think you can tell anything from like 5 start of the season games? Lol

I know I said this year but I'd say these 5 games are indicative of what Barrie plays at all the time. I've seen him play for Colorado too and he was always a better defenseman than Gardiner, even before the injury. And that's coming from someone who's always liked Gardiner despite the big mistakes he makes.

 

[meefer]

Neither Gardiner nor Barrie is special overall. However, both are much better than average. Attacking either is a muggs game. They both have flaws, but the sum of their parts is a benefit to every team in the league at the right price.

 

[S E P H]

We probably won the trade on the 2nd component IF Rosen doesn't amount to much, or the same with the 3rd.

Avs fan here, Rosen outplayed at least three of our bottom defenders and was unfairly sent to the AHL simply due to his non-wavier status. Him and Timmins were easily the two best players for Avs during the preseason.

from what i've seen makar>>barrie

from organizational pov sakic's move is a win for the avs; dubas' moves are a fail IMO

I don't think that's fair, Barrie is a fantastic player. The problem with Tyson is he has some weird weaknesses which makes him a very polarizing player. When he played for us, there were games where he drove me head-against-a-wall crazy, which I concluded that he's just a streaky player; either everything goes right for him in two weeks of action and then everything falls apart. Because of that, he's part of the "pros have to outweigh the cons" type of player for me.

The one weakness which I don't understand is his passing skills for a player as good as he is. I mean he's better than Jordie Benn and Ceci type of defenders, no doubt, but his passing skills are very much below-average for an offensive calibre player of his stature. He failed in Roy's system (call him bad coach or good coach) which relied on breaking it out of the zone with passes, which he simply isn't good at. He is a puck-rusher at heart and needs that system to get the most out of him. Makar isn't as good as Barrie is in other categories such as shot, but Makar creams him in making crisp breakout passes.

Kadri with 1G 2A tonight

He won't be putting up three points every night, but he was much better when he wasn't scoring either. Some of those against the Caps was Holtby bringing out his inner Raycroft.

Could be. I thought Jake would get 6 and he pulls 4m. It's crazy, wasn't just me that said the 6 range but it could have been the non disclosure of medical records.

With all due respect, you're out to lunch bruv and not sure if it's on this planet. If Tyson Barrie would've signed a 5 to 6 million dollar contract...Avs wouldn't have traded him at all. Barrie is getting at least 8 million dollars minimum, he is a client of Newport and his exact agent is that of Ryan O'Reilly. Now I do think Leafs can make the room for Tyson, which will involve getting rid of Ceci and Nylander.

 

[Nithoniniel]

How people still defend Jake The Mistake around here is beyond me - flashy player who constantly struggled in his own end far more than he contributed up the ice.

That's pretty easy, because there's simply no measurable way you can say his issues outweighed his strengths.

I'll drop the same argument I always do on this topic. If Jake was a liability defensively (or "constantly struggled in his own end" as you put it) then how come the opposition score relatively little against him every year for 7 years, regardless of what kind of minutes he played or what partner he had?

Until someone can answer that, I'll turn that statement around. I have no idea how anyone, considering the above, can still hold to the opinion that he is awful defensively and an overall detriment to his team?

Talking about folding under pressure, now there's a real argument.

 

[Leafling]

Not 5 games, no.

But from their overall body of work and performances?

I'm picking Barrie every time.

How people still defend Jake The Mistake around here is beyond me - flashy player who constantly struggled in his own end far more than he contributed up the ice. Not to mention he melted at just hearing the word PRESSURE

So 5 games tell you Barrie will be better than Gards under pressure?

I like Barrie because we needed a more defensive minded D man, Gardiner was an overkill on offense as we have so many skilled wingers. Regardless, I would like to see a full season of Barrie to compare the contributions Gardiner has made to this team.

 

[Stephen]

Kerfoot has been pretty good so far. Just seems to always be involved in the play and has a bit of jam and inclination to get into high traffic areas.

 

[cookie]

That's pretty easy, because there's simply no measurable way you can say his issues outweighed his strengths.

I'll drop the same argument I always do on this topic. If Jake was a liability defensively (or "constantly struggled in his own end" as you put it) then how come the opposition score relatively little against him every year for 7 years, regardless of what kind of minutes he played or what partner he had?

Until someone can answer that, I'll turn that statement around. I have no idea how anyone, considering the above, can still hold to the opinion that he is awful defensively and an overall detriment to his team?

Talking about folding under pressure, now there's a real argument.

Yeah, I don't get how people can talk garbage about Jake. How many points do they overlook?

Like his playing defense in front of goalies like Raycroft, Toskala, and Gustavsson?

Being partnered with Zaitsev and facing top tier forwards?

Having to compensate for relatively younger, less defensively conscious forwards throughout his entire Leafs' tenure?

Being relatively new to the position, having played wing through college, yet also being given the nickname "Silver"?

The easy answer to this is: he made mistakes because he was one of the few defenders on some very questionable Leafs teams that could move the puck. Other defenders make similar, if not worse, mistakes all the time. It comes with the position.

 

[PAZ]

Wasn’t his rumoured ask 8?

Toronto would be the only team that could give 8 years.....

Josi (taxes) and Petro are supposedly being offered 8.25ish.

From a person who watches Barrie more than us.....
Where do you rank him as a ufa D?

I was hoping for 7.5ish x 8. Which would be about 60 million. A team would have. To offer 8.5 to beat that....

How much of a step down is Barrie compared to Josi and Petro?

Josi isn't going anywhere, Poile would give away half his team before letting Josi walk. The only way the Blues let Petro walk as well is if he's asking 10 mil. If either of those players hit UFA, they'll be closer to $10 mil than $8 mil.

But to answer the question, Barrie is worse than both of those players. However, Barrie is a less valuable to you guys since you already have Reilly, but to many other teams I can definitely see him being offered $8-9 mil, and if the other two hit UFA they'll be getting $9-10 mil.

 

[Warden of the North]

Im gonna say it, I havent been overly impressed with Barrie.

Yes, its October. Hopefully by April hes changed my mind. I also have only watched 4 of 7 games.

At this point if we had to sign one of the two UFAs but lose the other its Muzz.

Relative to expectations Kerfoot has looked much better then Barrie IMO

 

[DarkKnight]

Im gonna say it, I havent been overly impressed with Barrie.

Yes, its October. Hopefully by April hes changed my mind. I also have only watched 4 of 7 games.

At this point if we had to sign one of the two UFAs but lose the other its Muzz.

Relative to expectations Kerfoot has looked much better then Barrie IMO

I agree. I take Muzz all day long at this point, without factoring in age and potential future decline. Barrie has been very underwhelming in our end so far. For my money Muzzin has been our best D man this year and he provides things we desperately need.

 

[Stephen]

If we can consolidate Barrie and Ceci and get close to Pietrangelo, you do that.

 

[Leafsman]

Im gonna say it, I havent been overly impressed with Barrie.

Yes, its October. Hopefully by April hes changed my mind. I also have only watched 4 of 7 games.

At this point if we had to sign one of the two UFAs but lose the other its Muzz.

Relative to expectations Kerfoot has looked much better then Barrie IMO

I forgot he played for us yesterday until during the third period I noticed "94" and was like "Who dat?" And remembered we traded for him.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

That's pretty easy, because there's simply no measurable way you can say his issues outweighed his strengths.

I'll drop the same argument I always do on this topic. If Jake was a liability defensively (or "constantly struggled in his own end" as you put it) then how come the opposition score relatively little against him every year for 7 years, regardless of what kind of minutes he played or what partner he had?

Until someone can answer that, I'll turn that statement around. I have no idea how anyone, considering the above, can still hold to the opinion that he is awful defensively and an overall detriment to his team?

Talking about folding under pressure, now there's a real argument.

NHL GMs have already told you what they think of Jake. He hit free agency, sat there for awhile and got paid a very modest contract.

He gets paid $4 million a year for a reason.. and that’s because he is a flawed player.

There is no argument to be had. League executives have spoken.

 

[Leafidelity]

Ive been quite impressed with Kerfoot. I really didn't know what to expect, but he's been a nice 3rd line center.

Barrie still seems unsettled. At best, he's been the quiet partner for Muzzin.

 

[Not My Tempo]

I agree. I take Muzz all day long at this point, without factoring in age and potential future decline. Barrie has been very underwhelming in our end so far. For my money Muzzin has been our best D man this year and he provides things we desperately need.

I’d love to sign Muzzin, and then possibly trade Kapanen and clear up cap space to sign someone like Gudas. Fixes our D need next year and we’d probably also have enough room to resign Mikheyev, and we’d probably get a decent draft pick in return for Kapanen. If one of Woll or Scott is ready to take over once Andersen’s contract is up, that helps us out a ton going forward as well.

 

[Nithoniniel]

NHL GMs have already told you what they think of Jake. He hit free agency, sat there for awhile and got paid a very modest contract.

He gets paid $4 million a year for a reason.. and that’s because he is a flawed player.

There is no argument to be had. League executives have spoken.

Actually, most agree that it was because of the hazy conditions of his back injury, but nice appeal to authority.

 

[Koolboss]

Ive been quite impressed with Kerfoot. I really didn't know what to expect, but he's been a nice 3rd line center.

Barrie still seems unsettled. At best, he's been the quiet partner for Muzzin.

Kerfoot has been decent for us but his FO% better improve soon at 46%

 

[4thline]

Kerfoot has been decent for us but his FO% better improve soon at 46%

Methinks you better check out Kadri's career FO% by year if that's going to be your point of contention

 

[Koolboss]

Methinks you better check out Kadri's career FO% by year if that's going to be your point of contention

I checked but what does this have to do with Kadri?

 

[4thline]

I checked but what does this have to do with Kadri?

If you're going to use FO% to criticize making a slight downgrade at 3C to add a top 20 offensive dman in the league it rings kind of hollow when the downgrade has a higher career FO%.

 

[Merrrlin]

Kadri vs Kerfoot so far this season:

Name	CF%	D zone start%	PP Points	EV Points
Kerfoot	57.7	54.8	1	3
Kadri	50%	55.6	2	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Similar stats. Kerfoot has more GP, but also less quality PP time. Kadri is producing better per game and looks like he will put up 10-15 points more, but part of that comes from PP opportunity.

To me they seem like pretty even players. Kadri will score more goals and has more to offer offensively, but Kerfoot can kill penalties, is younger and cheaper, and is only a slight downgrade offensively.

 

[Spirit of 67]

If we can consolidate Barrie and Ceci and get close to Pietrangelo, you do that.

LOL.
Big ticket for a 30 YO.
What could possibly go wrong?