Trade: [TOR/ARI] Daulton Varsho for Gabriel Moreno and Lourdes Gurriel Jr

[DougieSmash]

As an Dbacks fan... Man, that's a stupid trade. Varsho is future star.

 

[DaaaaB's]

If Varsho was as good as people hope the Diamondbacks wouldn't have been so willing to trade him

You just said it's a major overpay. Wouldn't that mean the Diamondbacks weren't that willing to part with him. Hence, the overpay.

 

[Hellcat]

Interesting stats

The Jays have a track record of taking hitters with potential and turning them into elite production hitters. The guys feilding is off the charts good.

Outs above average - #1 in MLB with 18.
Barrels - 51st in MLB
Expected HR in 2022 if Toronto was his home field 29HR

 

[Hellcat]

If Varsho was as good as people hope the Diamondbacks wouldn't have been so willing to trade him

Moreno is a blue chip future star and if Gurriel can stay healthy he's an above average at the plate and kinda OK in the field.

I think a good sign is Diamondback fans think they got ripped off and Blue Jay fans think they got ripped off.

Gurriel Rankings below

I think it's fair to say the Pirates weren't interested in dealing Reynolds for a package centered around Moreno

So, are the Jays better off with Varsho & Tiedermann or would they have been better off with Reynolds + Moreno?

I'm really happy we kept Tiedermann... that guy is a future star.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

That was initial reaction too but the more I read up on this guy , he's a pretty good player. Astros were rumored to be offing one of their top 5 SP for Varsho.

Varsho had a 2.0 DWAR and a .994 FPCT in RF last year.

This isn't the 2000's nobody cares about defense. Just like pitcher don't go 7+ innings regularly anymore.

 

[Hellcat]

This isn't the 2000's nobody cares about defense. Just like pitcher don't go 7+ innings regularly anymore.

Silly comment but sure whatever you say.

 

[SoupNazi]

This isn't the 2000's nobody cares about defense. Just like pitcher don't go 7+ innings regularly anymore.

I assure you that "nobody cares about defense" isn't true.

 

[Neutrinos]

So, is Varsho essentially Colby Rasmus with elite defense?

 

[DougieSmash]

Major overpay by Jays IMO

Totally disagree.

Remember Wieters, Knizner, Mejia, Carson Kelly? Some of them top 10 prospects in the gane. I don't expect Moreno to be much different no matter how good prospect he is. Sanchez was hyped, Montero, Swihart...

Just a bad move from Dbacks. I get that McCarthy is pretty good, so is Corbin Carroll but Alek Thomas doesn't strike me as a good potential. Druw Jones is nowhere ready.

 

[Canes]

lmao

varsho fetched a better return than sean murphy. f***ing incredible

The fact the MLB allows this to happen is incredible. Granted it's a free market and everyone is worth what they are worth in a trade but the A's strategy is laughable.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I think it's fair to say the Pirates weren't interested in dealing Reynolds for a package centered around Moreno

So, are the Jays better off with Varsho & Tiedermann or would they have been better off with Reynolds + Moreno?

I’ll take Varsho and Tiedemann there based on need. As you mentioned, Varsho can catch as well so thenpositional flexibility is there. He’s still young so can see him improve at the plate and should see an uptick there moving from NL west to AL east just based on the parks he’ll be playing in

 

[Peter Griffin]

I like this trade from a Blue Jay's perspective. This is a win-now move, which is what they should be focussed on at this point. Varsho-Kiermeier-Springer may be the best defending outfield in the majors now.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Totally disagree.

Remember Wieters, Knizner, Mejia, Carson Kelly? Some of them top 10 prospects in the gane. I don't expect Moreno to be much different no matter how good prospect he is. Sanchez was hyped, Montero, Swihart...

Just a bad move from Dbacks. I get that McCarthy is pretty good, so is Corbin Carroll but Alek Thomas doesn't strike me as a good potential. Druw Jones is nowhere ready.

So just because a few top prospects busted/disappointed, Moreno will too?

We could also mention all the top 10 prospects who went on to become great players if we are going to play this game.

The bottom line is that if anyone had proposed this trade a few months ago, they would have been told zero chance Toronto even considers it. Hence why some of us feel it's an overpay. If the Jays make a World Series and Varsho is a key part, it changes things obviously.

 

[Terry Yake]

The fact the MLB allows this to happen is incredible. Granted it's a free market and everyone is worth what they are worth in a trade but the A's strategy is laughable.

the A's strategy has long been "quantity over quality" with big trades. they could have easily gotten a high ranked prospect or 2 for murphy but chose not to because then they would've had to pay them eventually. so instead they settle for a couple mid prospects mixed in with some 25-26 year old AAAA pitchers recovering from TJ

 

[Neutrinos]

After giving it some more thought, I'm not a fan of this deal from Toronto's perspective

Now, I should say, I'm not familiar enough with the players involved to say with any certainty what their short and long term impact will be for their respective teams, however, I feel like this is a deal that Arizona would make 10/10 times

Perhaps the Jays' coaching staff sees a flaw in Varsho's swing, or approach at the plate, and think with some minor changes they can maximize his potential as a hitter, but he has a career OBP of .306, and as it stands, that's not the kind of bat I'm giving up Moreno for

If Arizona was in need of a young catcher, why weren't the Jays offering Moreno for Carroll straight up?

Again, I haven't seen Moreno and Varsho enough to have a strong opinion about their play, but based on what I do know, this one has the potential to haunt the Jays for the next decade

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

lmao

varsho fetched a better return than sean murphy. f***ing incredible

MUCH better.

Happens when your owner only cares about saving money to make more money later instead of running a baseball franchise properly.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

the A's strategy has long been "quantity over quality" with big trades. they could have easily gotten a high ranked prospect or 2 for murphy but chose not to because then they would've had to pay them eventually. so instead they settle for a couple mid prospects mixed in with some 25-26 year old AAAA pitchers recovering from TJ

A’s don’t even want to pay cheap free agents. They don’t make these moves to save money later, they make them to save it now! Their owner would rather they use cheap, unreliable players instead of paying competent fillers 5-7 a year (outside of the outliers of May/Diaz/Peterson which were probably forced by mlb).

Their owner hamstrings management in every possible way. The franchise won’t be any better until he sells, stadium or no stadium.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

So just because a few top prospects busted/disappointed, Moreno will too?

We could also mention all the top 10 prospects who went on to become great players if we are going to play this game.

The bottom line is that if anyone had proposed this trade a few months ago, they would have been told zero chance Toronto even considers it. Hence why some of us feel it's an overpay. If the Jays make a World Series and Varsho is a key part, it changes things obviously.

I mean that isn't true at all. Just because you didn't know who Varsho was doesn't mean other people didn't. I have been on the trade for Varsho train all off season and I knew it would be Kirk or Moreno going to do it. It was not an over pay. Both teams traded from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness. An uber valuable piece for an uber valuable piece. It should hopefully be a win-win trade in the long run.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I mean that isn't true at all. Just because you didn't know who Varsho was doesn't mean other people didn't. I have been on the trade for Varsho train all off season and I knew it would be Kirk or Moreno going to do it. It was not an over pay. Both teams traded from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness. An uber valuable piece for an uber valuable piece. It should hopefully be a win-win trade in the long run.

By a few months, I should have been clearer. I meant like in June or July. Not start of the off-season.

I am not doubting Varsho is a very good fit for TOR, btw. I just feel like the price is absolutely huge.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

By a few months, I should have been clearer. I meant like in June or July. Not start of the off-season.

I am not doubting Varsho is a very good fit for TOR, btw. I just feel like the price is absolutely huge.

That's where I'm at too. I think he's gonna be a great fit for the Jays but I feel like Moreno + Lourdes should have gotten back more in return. Value wise it feels decisively in Arizona's favour. How it plays out is gonna be a different story.

 

[Hellcat]

A’s don’t even want to pay cheap free agents. They don’t make these moves to save money later, they make them to save it now! Their owner would rather they use cheap, unreliable players instead of paying competent fillers 5-7 a year (outside of the outliers of May/Diaz/Peterson which were probably forced by mlb).

Their owner hamstrings management in every possible way. The franchise won’t be any better until he sells, stadium or no stadium.

I dont understand why A's fans are s#itting on the A's owner for being financially responsible. Should the guy be a bone head and spend more than the team makes? Who buys a MLB team to lose money?

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I dont understand why A's fans are s#itting on the A's owner for being financially responsible. Should the guy be a bone head and spend more than the team makes? Who buys a MLB team to lose money?

Financially responsible. That’s what you call wanting the taxpayers to fund the majority of his stadium/neighborhood, or are you referring to how he just cut the payroll in half and gutted the core of a roster that had finished over .500 4 straight seasons and made the playoffs in 3 of them. Or are you referring to the millions he pocketed last season collecting ‘competitive balance’ revenue then not putting a single cent of it back into the roster. It was so bad last season you had the owners of the Yankees and Mets coming out publicly calling John Fisher and the mlb out.

I can’t believe someone is actually defending this assclown.

 

[Hellcat]

Starting Roster? Chapman and Varsho sure strike out a lot. Allthough Varsho has low OBP they may use him higher in the line up to make it a Left-Righty-Lefty look. Maybe stick Varsho between Bo and Vladdy, Varsho has speed(ish), having Vlad behind him might mean Varsho gets more fastballs? You dont want to be letting Vladdy hit with runners on.

Rk	Pos	Name	Age	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB
1	CF	George Springer	32	133	583	513	89	137	22	4	25	76	14	2	54	100	0.267	0.342	0.472	0.814	131	242	7	7	0	5	1
2	SS	Bo Bichette	24	159	697	652	91	189	43	1	24	93	13	8	41	155	0.29	0.333	0.469	0.802	127	306	21	2	0	2	0
3	1B	Vladimir Guerrero Jr.	23	160	706	638	90	175	35	0	32	97	8	3	58	116	0.274	0.339	0.48	0.818	132	306	26	6	0	4	6
4	3B	Matt Chapman	29	155	621	538	83	123	27	1	27	76	2	2	68	170	0.229	0.324	0.433	0.757	115	233	7	10	0	5	1
5	RF	Daulton Varsho	25	151	592	531	79	125	23	3	27	74	16	6	46	145	0.235	0.302	0.443	0.745	109	235	8	7	2	5
6	C	Alejandro Kirk	23	139	541	470	59	134	19	0	14	63	0	0	63	58	0.285	0.372	0.415	0.786	126	195	11	4	0	4	2
7	2B	Santiago Espinal	27	135	491	449	51	120	25	0	7	51	6	6	36	68	0.267	0.322	0.37	0.692	99	166	12	2	1	3	1
8
9	CF	Kevin Kiermaier*	32	63	221	206	28	47	8	0	7	22	6	1	14	61	0.228	0.281	0.369	0.649	89	76	2	1	0	0	0

Financially responsible. That’s what you call wanting the taxpayers to fund the majority of his stadium/neighborhood, or are you referring to how he just cut the payroll in half and gutted the core of a roster that had finished over .500 4 straight seasons and made the playoffs in 3 of them. Or are you referring to the millions he pocketed last season collecting ‘competitive balance’ revenue then not putting a single cent of it back into the roster. It was so bad last season you had the owners of the Yankees and Mets coming out publicly calling John Fisher and the mlb out.

I can’t believe someone is actually defending this assclown.

You sound like you have an issue with a businessman making money.

I know nothing of this owner, maybe he is a complete tool, but how is him asking the tax payers to fund a new stadium any different than a 100 other major sports franchise owners?

Less than 9k fans per game, if he put out a line up of mannequins , would anyone notice? He's making millions, with a team that gets less fans per game than many AAA clubs.. bravo.... he played the money game and won ... At the end of the day if the owners of the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Mets are crying because they are paying this guy to own a MLB team, boo freaking hoo, any time those teams get screwed I'm a happy man.

Now that the Jays finally pulled the trigger on a catcher trade, Atkins said “I think our heavy lifting is done” for the rest of the offseason, though the front office is “certainly not ruling anything out and would expect some incremental improvements.” Varsho and Kiermaier are both left-handed hitters, and thus the Blue Jays will “look to improve our team from the subtraction of Gurriel, but in our view it doesn’t need to be right-handed or left-handed, it’s more about the impact and the fit beyond that.”

GMs Ross Atkins, Mike Hazen Share Details On Blue Jays/Diamondbacks Trade

After months of speculation and interest from multiple teams, the Diamondbacks finally traded one of their left-handed hitting outfielders and …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[Neutrinos]

Starting Roster? Chapman and Varsho sure strike out a lot. Allthough Varsho has low OBP they may use him higher in the line up to make it a Left-Righty-Lefty look. Maybe stick Varsho between Bo and Vladdy, Varsho has speed(ish), having Vlad behind him might mean Varsho gets more fastballs? You dont want to be letting Vladdy hit with runners on.

Rk	Pos	Name	Age	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB
1	CF	George Springer	32	133	583	513	89	137	22	4	25	76	14	2	54	100	0.267	0.342	0.472	0.814	131	242	7	7	0	5	1
2	SS	Bo Bichette	24	159	697	652	91	189	43	1	24	93	13	8	41	155	0.29	0.333	0.469	0.802	127	306	21	2	0	2	0
3	1B	Vladimir Guerrero Jr.	23	160	706	638	90	175	35	0	32	97	8	3	58	116	0.274	0.339	0.48	0.818	132	306	26	6	0	4	6
4	3B	Matt Chapman	29	155	621	538	83	123	27	1	27	76	2	2	68	170	0.229	0.324	0.433	0.757	115	233	7	10	0	5	1
5	RF	Daulton Varsho	25	151	592	531	79	125	23	3	27	74	16	6	46	145	0.235	0.302	0.443	0.745	109	235	8	7	2	5
6	C	Alejandro Kirk	23	139	541	470	59	134	19	0	14	63	0	0	63	58	0.285	0.372	0.415	0.786	126	195	11	4	0	4	2
7	2B	Santiago Espinal	27	135	491	449	51	120	25	0	7	51	6	6	36	68	0.267	0.322	0.37	0.692	99	166	12	2	1	3	1
8
9	CF	Kevin Kiermaier*	32	63	221	206	28	47	8	0	7	22	6	1	14	61	0.228	0.281	0.369	0.649	89	76	2	1	0	0	0

Chapman's averaged nearly 200 strikeouts per 162 games over the last 2 seasons, so I wouldn't have him hitting directly behind Guerrero

If Merrifield has a good spring, I'd consider having him leadoff

Merrifield
Springer
Bichette
Guerrero
Kirk
Varsho
Chapman
Kiermaier

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

You sound like you have an issue with a businessman making money.

I know nothing of this owner, maybe he is a complete tool, but how is him asking the tax payers to fund a new stadium any different than a 100 other major sports franchise owners?

Less than 9k fans per game, if he put out a line up of mannequins , would anyone notice? He's making millions, with a team that gets less fans per game than many AAA clubs.. bravo.... he played the money game and won ... At the end of the day if the owners of the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Mets are crying because they are paying this guy to own a MLB team, boo freaking hoo, any time those teams get screwed I'm a happy man.

If you’re ignorant on the subject why even comment. Holy f***.

It’s a ~12 billion dollar stadium/neighborhood he’s trying to strongarm the local government into blindly signing off of with the help of Manfred. This isn’t some small time project they should rush, especially when John Fisher keeps trying to make the city of Oakland take on more of the bill after previous agreements.

If John Fisher, a top-5 owner by wealth in the mlb, can’t afford to run the team, then sell it to Lacob. He wanted to buy the team before Selig conspired to sell it to his buddy Lew Wolff (and John Fisher).