bluedevil58
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Eklund Rumor: TOR and VAN in a dogfight for Hanifin
- Thread starter ottomaddox
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bluedevil58
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No I don't. Larsson returned Hall. Marner or Nylander is beyond reasonable given past trades.
Liferleafer
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bluedevil58
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So Toronto is not in a dog fight for Hanafan then?
Liferleafer
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Isn't it incredibly silly to still use that trade as the price for a top 4 D? You really think GMs will repeat that trade? What a disaster.
Hannifan will not return a Marner type talent from any team.
BrindAmours Army
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Alright, I'll bite.
Re ES Points: Per Corsica, Hanfin's ES P/60 is tied for 20th overall among defenseman that played >800 minutes last season. Now, I don't know how you define "top defenseman," by 20th-21st is not bad.
Re "3rd pairing usage": Hanifin's TOI/GP is 4th among Cane's defensemen, 1:49 more per GP than 5th. His ES TOI/GP is also 4th, 1:11 more per game than 5th.
Re "65% offensive zone starts at ES": Yeah, I don't know where you got that number, but it's nowhere close to accurate, so I'm going to assume you're making it up. His ES OZS% was 40.75, and Carolina had the highest OZS% as a team last season, with only two defensemen below 33% (Slavin and Pesce).
He isn't a top offensive defesman, maybe in one very specific stat he is a good offensive defender but usually top offensive defenders put up more than 32 points. Not saying he can't be in the future but I think it is silly to call him a top offensive defender at this point in his career.
I think your getting OZS% mixed up with DZS%. Hanifin had 63.1% offensive zone starts at even strength from a variety of advanced stats websites.
He was primarily used on the third pairing and was sheltered pretty heavily. Carolina fans have said as much when discussing Faulk.
His most frequent partner by far was TVR so ya he did spend the majority of his time at even strength on the third pairing.
Dog fighting is cruel and illegal in Ontario.
Also Hanafin is a lefty, so unless the idea is to put Dermott back in the AHL then I'm not sure why the Leafs would do that.
Halla
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Halla
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Bob Mckenzie has dispelled the myth that the leafs are willing to move any of the big 3 for D help
if they were willing, wouldnt they have done it already?
Mcdonagh,Hamilton,Hamonic..top 4 guys that were moved for picks and or prospects. 1 awful trade by the oilers doesnt set the market.
if they were willing, wouldnt they have done it already?
Mcdonagh,Hamilton,Hamonic..top 4 guys that were moved for picks and or prospects. 1 awful trade by the oilers doesnt set the market.
Leaf Fans
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For sure. Then we can turn around and trade Matt Martin for Laine as Stojanov returned Nasland. We could follow that up with Hyman for Nathan MacKinnon as we know that Matt Ellison returned Patrick Sharp. We can use these trades to convince the GM of Winnipeg and Colorado.
BrindAmours Army
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As far as specific stats go, P/60 is pretty damn significant when you're looking at the offensive quality of a player.
Can you post your source for the 63% offensive zone starts, because that is nowhere close to what any source shows that I've found. Corsica shows it as 40.75%. If Hanifin started in the defensive zone 40% of the time, he would be receiving, by far, the toughest starts among Canes' defensemen. So, you're wrong on both accounts.
I didn't say he wasn't sheltered, I said your numbers are not accurate.
He spent plenty of time with TVR for two main reasons 1.) Pesce was out for 17 games (usually elevating Faulk to the top pairing, and TVR to the second pairing) and 2.) Fleury - TVR was offensively inept, so Peters tried to mix those two pairs to give each of the pairs an offensive guy. Peters would often mix lines and pairings, often multiple times per game.
That said, you are correct in stating that TVR was his most common partner. 58% with TVR, 23.8% with Faulk, and 12.3% with Pesce. Now, when he was with Faulk or Pesce, that was always the 2nd pairing. That would be 36.1% of the time. Pesce missed ~21% of the season, and Faulk missed a handful of games. Pretty easy to find 14% to put him into the second pairing over half the time.
Or, you can just look at ice time and realize only three defenseman had more ES TOI per game, ergo making him a second pairing defensemen in usage even if not as far as his partner goes. Also, when Pesce was playing and Faulk and Hanifin were split up, they weren't really treated as a second and third pairing. They were played pretty similarly, often chosen based off of whether the faceoff was on the left or the right.
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Hockey reference show 63.3% offensive zone starts. 36.7 defensive zone starts. That is the most offensive zones starts out of all the Canes D that played more than a few games. Also the lowest Defensive zone starts out of all the D that played more than a few games.
Hockey reference is a lot more reliable source.
I am not sure why you think 40% is tougher mins than out all the cane D. That's is a low percentage.
Not sure if you know that zone starts calculation don't include center ice starts. They only calculate offensive and defensive zones
Finlandia WOAT
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McDonough was a deadline acquisition who returned a decent roster player, harmonic demanded a trade to 2 sspecific teams, Hamilton was on a cap ceiling boston team.
Nizdizzle
Offseason Is The Worst Season
Another poster already touched on the zone start stuff so I won't mention it.
He spent the majority of his time on the third pairing, I think that means he played on the third pairing and stepped up a pairing in case of injury. That is very typical third pairing usage.
The only reason he ever moved up off the third pairing was injury.
You usually define a player's role by what they played the majority of the season. If you don't you can start staying Gardiner played as a top pairing defender last year (played like a dozen games there when Rielly was injuried) or Nylander played center last year (played center for a dozen or so games when Matthews was injuried). However you don't as the vast majority of the time they didn't play in those positions
This guy lecturing Canes fans about Canes players usage. How many Canes games did you watch last year?
By your logic then the only conclusion is that Haydn Fleury was actually the top-4 D, right? Because "He spent the majority of his time on the 2nd pair" with Faulk? Hanifin only "filled in for Fleury" when he was scratched for Dahlbeck?
So is 21 year old top-4 Haydn Fleury more valuable than Hanifin? Or maybe you really don't know what you are talking about?
The real answer is that the 1st/2nd/3rd pairing played very similar minutes and were often in flux. It shifted significantly throughout the year. It is silly to try and break the Canes defense down into 1st/2nd/3rd pair. Not even Slavin-Pesce were kept together for the entire year. Peters was a line/pairings blender.
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Namikaze Minato
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How about Marleau for Hanifin? Gomez got Mcdonough so its beyond reasonable, right?
glucker
Registered User
Hockey reference agrees that he got 60+% offensive zone starts.
Where are you getting your numbers from?
Brock Radunske
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Eklund is saying Carolina wants Kapanen for Hinifin.
As sheltered and average as Hanifins been, I'd still love to add him. The Leafs need a steady JBo-type.
As sheltered and average as Hanifins been, I'd still love to add him. The Leafs need a steady JBo-type.
Liferleafer
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Hard to say no to that as a Leafs fan....[MOD]
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Notsince67
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I really like Kapanen but it looks a bit low to me. Nylander would be an overpayment for sure.
