Top 4 Overrated on Flyers

[briererocks]

Overrated by other fans: Simmonds

Overrated by Flyers fans: Rinaldo (only the ones who are okay with him playing)

Overrated by the organization: MacDonald, Emery, Rinaldo, Grossmann


I think that's a pretty fair way of putting it.

Interesting approach....

Overrated by Flyer Fans: Simmonds, Coburn, Raffl, Rinaldo

Overrated by other Fans: Simmonds, Coburn

Overrated by Management: Simmonds, Coburn, Rinaldo, MacDonald, Emery, Grossman, L. Schenn

 

[BleedOrange]

One player that is over hyped is Akeson everyone thinks he is going to make the team he will be playing in the AHL this coming season. If he doesn't impress this season which he won't he won't be resigned.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I kind of combined fans and management in going with LSchenn, BSchenn, MacD, and Grossmann.

I don't think the org overrates Luke -- anymore -- considering his 16 minutes of play.

I also tend to think fans overrate Brayden more than the org does.

MacD, that was more based on the trade and signing.

Grossmann, I think some fans overrate him, but playing 19 minutes per game factored as well.

One thing I like is that I believe 3 of the most overrated players were Hartnell, Hall, and McGinn and all are already out the door under Hextall.

 

[FlyingPhilly]

- Luke Schenn:
Some people think he can get better or a lot better because he is still "young." A few even believe he has top pairing potential. I do not see any of that.

- Brayden Schenn:
Some believe he has a lot more room to grow; do not see that. I have yet to see any stretch of play that has shown any flash or form of play that signifies he can be that good. People like to point out the production vs the limited time on the ice; that is all good but, well he also typically played against weaker competition. Really boils down to the hype he had against what I have seen so far.

- Braydon Coburn:
Importance to the team cannot be understated. I only take issue with some that say he is a top pairing d-man; I think he is a good #2 or a great #3.

Hartnell would be at the top of my list if he was still here.
Just my thoughts and view.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Never said he was great. but look at this advanced stats and Schenns numbers with Gus as compared to Mesz. You will find that he was a solid dman.

It's hockey, not baseball. If you're only going to bring those stats, at least make sure the player plays more than 31 games in a season.

Gustafsson couldn't hold Gostisbehere's jock.

 

[Ryker]

Have you ever even seen Sanheim play? I understand if Button saying McDonagh made you skeptical, but you should at least watch him play before throwing him on this list.

Maybe I should, but then again seeing a couple of his games won't make me an expert on his play. And I don't really have the time or the desire to watch all of his games with Calgary. But anyway, I can drop him from my list if you think I'm doing him a disservice, I don't really care. No strong opinion on this. Just wanted to go with four guys, he came closest to it. Swap him with the dainty golfer, if you wish.

I really doubt you saw many, if any, people say Laughton should be on the 1st line. You're exaggerating. As for being ahead of Vinny, I don't see why anyone wouldn't have Laughton ahead. He'll play defense and score a little. Vinny will play no defense and may score a little more, but not near enough to make up the difference in defense.

Again, I was skimming the threads and didn't pay full attention to everyone's posts. Obviously the posts I disagree with are going to stick most in my mind, and that's probably why I got that impression. Maybe it really was just a couple of people stating their case over and over. I don't know, but I'm not the one trying to act all objective here, since I realize "overrated" is not a tangible term. As for Laughton being ahead of Vinny, I'm not going to debate this here and just leave it at me disagreeing with you that he should. Hence, the inclusion on the overrated list, because you don't seem to be the only one thinking that way.

 

[DrHamburg]

It's hockey, not baseball. If you're only going to bring those stats, at least make sure the player plays more than 31 games in a season.

Gustafsson couldn't hold Gostisbehere's jock.

I can't tell if you are mad because I said Ghost was overrated or if you're mad because I said Gus was a solid d-man.

Either way, Gus's stats showed he should've played more than he did. Many people on here are suggesting Ghost is ready to play 17-20 mins a game and he will instantly be be better than almost all of the Flyers defense from last season. I hope they are right but that is asking a whole lot out of an undersized D-man who hasn't played a minute of AHL or NHL hockey. Sorry that I made you mad I apologize, just stating I think he is currently overrated.

 

[lancer247]

- Luke Schenn:
Some people think he can get better or a lot better because he is still "young." A few even believe he has top pairing potential. I do not see any of that.

- Brayden Schenn:
Some believe he has a lot more room to grow; do not see that. I have yet to see any stretch of play that has shown any flash or form of play that signifies he can be that good. People like to point out the production vs the limited time on the ice; that is all good but, well he also typically played against weaker competition. Really boils down to the hype he had against what I have seen so far.

- Braydon Coburn:
Importance to the team cannot be understated. I only take issue with some that say he is a top pairing d-man; I think he is a good #2 or a great #3.

Hartnell would be at the top of my list if he was still here.
Just my thoughts and view.

Isn't #2 a top pairing dman?

People throw bouquets at the feet of Coots and Read for there defensive work on other teams top lines but think Coburn isn't a top pairing d man when he has been matching against other teams top lines a lot longer and through some long playoff runs.

B. Schenn needs to be given a bigger role in order to reach his potential. I agree with others that say he should get a long look on Giroux line.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I can't tell if you are mad because I said Ghost was overrated or if you're mad because I said Gus was a solid d-man.

Either way, Gus's stats showed he should've played more than he did. Many people on here are suggesting Ghost is ready to play 17-20 mins a game and he will instantly be be better than almost all of the Flyers defense from last season. I hope they are right but that is asking a whole lot out of an undersized D-man who hasn't played a minute of AHL or NHL hockey. Sorry that I made you mad I apologize, just stating I think he is currently overrated.

Made me mad? The only people who thought Gustafsson should have played more are people on this board who use advanced stats as the end all be all. Scouts and two coaching staffs thought otherwise. He's a fringe NHL player. Nothing more.

If Gostisbehere can't at least provide what Gustafsson brought to the team then I will come here and eat my crow and say he was overrated.

Oh and he has played a minute of AHL hockey.

 

[AFTeRMaTH*]

The start of this thread was HOF worthy. lmao he lists 3 players! hahaha.

As for overrated? Coburn is not overrated at all. Simmonds maybe because of his 5 on5 play but he brings alot to the table.

 

[Striiker]

Made me mad? The only people who thought Gustafsson should have played more are people on this board who use advanced stats as the end all be all. Scouts and two coaching staffs thought otherwise. He's a fringe NHL player. Nothing more.

If Gostisbehere can't at least provide what Gustafsson brought to the team then I will come here and eat my crow and say he was overrated.

Oh and he has played a minute of AHL hockey.

Agree with the rest but the bolded is wrong. I wanted Gus to play more because it was obvious he was better than Mez and Schenn played better with him, I don't give a **** about advanced stats.

 

[JGalt]

If anything Coburn is significantly under appreciated around here.

 

[Jtown]

1.Giroux
2. Kimmo
3. coots

 

[kyuss]

Laughton, Morin, Sanheim, Couturier.

If you'd said Ghost instead of Couts I'd agree completely. The prospects are the only players I see overrated here or by any Flyers fans if anyone is overrated at all. This fan base has to be the most self-depracating in the world.

Putting Simmonds and Coburn on an overrated list is a joke. People are constantly calling for Coburn's head. I once heard a fan describe Simmonds lack of speed by recounting one of his unsuccessful penalty shot attempts.

Philadelphia sports fans always have love for the blue-collar players, but they also always think you suck if you're not the best, unless you're a rookie--then you are a god.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Agree with the rest but the bolded is wrong. I wanted Gus to play more because it was obvious he was better than Mez and Schenn played better with him, I don't give a **** about advanced stats.

He barely played after Mez was traded. And if Schenn needs Erik Gustafsson to play decent, then that says a lot about his game.

 

[Striiker]

He barely played after Mez was traded. And if Schenn needs Erik Gustafsson to play decent, then that says a lot about his game.

That's because we got MacDonald a day before Mez was traded and he's better than both of them. And what that says about Schenns game is that all he needs to play better is someone of minimal skating and puck moving skill, which is a good thing.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He barely played after Mez was traded. And if Schenn needs Erik Gustafsson to play decent, then that says a lot about his game.

Mez playing over Gus was a continuous error on the part of Berube.

 

[Ryker]

If you'd said Ghost instead of Couts I'd agree completely. The prospects are the only players I see overrated here or by any Flyers fans if anyone is overrated at all. This fan base has to be the most self-depracating in the world.

Haha, you know that that was actually my original list? I then changed my mind and switched out Ghost for Coots, and I stand by it. He's actually the one choice from the list I will definitely not back away from. When you get an outrage like you do here for Sens fans even suggesting Zibanejad might be on par with him, and when his endeavours to stop Malkin or whomever get turned into legends of epic proportions, I just can't ignore the misalignment with reality. I think he's good. But he's not that good. At least not in my opinion. But on second thought, judging from multiple posts in this thread mentioning him, he might not be overrated after all

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Grossmann post foot injury playing signigicant minutes was also a mistake. He should have been sheltered more or straight up starched in favor of a person who could actually skate.

 

[FLYguy3911]

That's because we got MacDonald a day before Mez was traded and he's better than both of them. And what that says about Schenns game is that all he needs to play better is someone of minimal skating and puck moving skill, which is a good thing.

That was kind of my point. Once we got an average defenseman (that's what MacDonald is) Gustafsson was phased out.

What Schenn needs to play better is to play better. It's not like he's a river boat gambler that needs a stay at home guy to cover for him. Schenn's problems are more individual in that HE has trouble moving to puck, HE turns the puck over, and HE gets beat wide by speed. Sure there may be games where he plays good with a particular partner, but at the end of the day we can't rely on Schenn's partner to make him look good on the third pairing. He needs to step up.

 

[Striiker]

That was kind of my point. Once we got an average defenseman (that's what MacDonald is) Gustafsson was phased out.

What Schenn needs to play better is to play better. It's not like he's a river boat gambler that needs a stay at home guy to cover for him. Schenn's problems are more individual in that HE has trouble moving to puck, HE turns the puck over, and HE gets beat wide by speed. Sure there may be games where he plays good with a particular partner, but at the end of the day we can't rely on Schenn's partner to make him look good on the third pairing. He needs to step up.

It's not even a matter of Schenn needing someone to play better, he just needs a partner that isn't a detriment. It's not like he played better with Gus because he was such a great player that he carried him, it was because Gus wasn't as **** as Mez. Basically, Gus didn't bring out the best in Schenn, he simply didn't expose the worst. Schenn will be fine as long as he has an NHL calibre player paired with him (MacDonald, Timonen, ect), but if you put the broken down scraps on his pairing then you can't expect it to not effect his game.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

What Schenn needs to play better is to play better. It's not like he's a river boat gambler that needs a stay at home guy to cover for him. Schenn's problems are more individual in that HE has trouble moving to puck, HE turns the puck over, and HE gets beat wide by speed. Sure there may be games where he plays good with a particular partner, but at the end of the day we can't rely on Schenn's partner to make him look good on the third pairing. He needs to step up.

Exactly.

He's supposed to be a "shutdown" defenseman. The team traded JVR for him. He's played, what, 7 seasons in the NHL? He averaged 16 minutes on a bad defense?

He should be the guy making his partner better. Gus was the one helping Luke out. Good thing Luke still has his name and draft position to give him leeway.

Luke's problems with footspeed, passing, puckcarrying, and awareness mean: he can't defend, and he gets hemmed in his own zone while being unable to defend.

I like a guy who hits, but Luke is a mark (Biblical pun unintended).

 

[FLYguy3911]

It's not even a matter of Schenn needing someone to play better, he just needs a partner that isn't a detriment. It's not like he played better with Gus because he was such a great player that he carried him, it was because Gus wasn't as **** as Mez. Basically, Gus didn't bring out the best in Schenn, he simply didn't expose the worst. Schenn will be fine as long as he has an NHL calibre player paired with him (MacDonald, Timonen, ect), but if you put the broken down scraps on his pairing then you can't expect it to not effect his game.

When I evaluate Schenn's game, I'm looking at the individual not the end result. Meszaros didn't effect Schenn turning pucks over. Meszaros wasn't the reason Schenn got beat to the outside again. Schenn should be a low-maintenance guy. He shouldn't need so and so to be his partner for him to do his job. That's my point. He's a stay at home defenseman with a limited game. He should make other's better.

People are always looking to put the blame on others when certain guys like the Schenns and Couturier (offensively) aren't producing. At what point do we look at the individual? When MacDonald sucks we don't blame Luke Schenn and say he would play better with someone else. No, we just say he sucks.

 

[flyersfan018]

1.Giroux
2. Kimmo
3. coots

You forgot Ville Leino

 

[Striiker]

When I evaluate Schenn's game, I'm looking at the individual not the end result. Meszaros didn't effect Schenn turning pucks over. Meszaros wasn't the reason Schenn got beat to the outside again. Schenn should be a low-maintenance guy. He shouldn't need so and so to be his partner for him to do his job. That's my point. He's a stay at home defenseman with a limited game. He should make other's better.

People are always looking to put the blame on others when certain guys like the Schenns and Couturier (offensively) aren't producing. At what point do we look at the individual? When MacDonald sucks we don't blame Luke Schenn and say he would play better with someone else. No, we just say he sucks.

You're talking as if having bad linemates can't effect other peoples play. I'm not saying Schenn is infallible and Mezsaros was the only thing stopping him from being an amazing player, but the fact is that Schenn's flaws weren't even close to as noticeable, and I'd even say he played well, when he had pretty much anyone else as a partner. He doesn't need any certain player to be paired with him to do his job, but if you put a player next to him who actively makes his job much harder then it's not unreasonable to think it'll be tougher for him to do his job.

If we put Rinaldo and Rosehill on Girouxs wings and Giroux produces far less would it mean that Giroux is a poor player because needs a certain type of player on his line to do his job? No, because playing with bad people makes players look worse than they are, so just give that player a chance to do his job by not anchoring him with dead weight. That's not putting the blame at others, it's looking at the context of the situation and taking everything into account when making an evaluation.