Prospect Info: Top 20 DRW Prospect (Including 2020 Draft)

[Steve Yzerlland]

The real question is regardless of how you stack them, how do they rank against the other teams top 20 prospects? I would like to see that list. (Or maybe not )

 

[14ari13]

1. Seider
2. Raymond
3. Zadina
4. Berggren
5. Veleno
6. Johansson
7. Cholowski
8. Rasmussen
9. McIsaac
10. Mastrosimone
11. Bednar
12. Niederbach
13. Svechnikov
14. Wallinder
15. Cotton
16. Tuomisto
17. Hanas
18. Smith
19. Viro
20. Lindstrom
21. Phillips
22. Soderblom
23. Pearson
24. Grewe
25. Berglund
26. Tyutyaev
27. Petruzzelli
28. Barton
29. Larsson
30. Sebrango
31. Kivenmaki

At least 20 names from that list will not play 50 NHL games combined.

I don’t understand how some of you have Mo at #1. Raymond and Zadina have higher upsides as impact players. Seider might develop into a #2, but it’s more likely he projects as a #3 guy. I can understand if you have Seider over Zadina if you’ve started to sour on Zadina for some reason, but Raymond is the best prospect in the organization with a bullet.

What is the point of questioning other people's opinions?

You just post your list and go from there.

 

[RedMenace]

My list begins and ends with Kienan Draper.

 

[19 for president]

I have Mo over Raymond for a few reasons.

1. I feel that at this point he has a more overall impressive resume. He was dominant at World Juniors last year on a greatly overmatched squad (based on overall skill). He had an excellent rookie season in the DEL. He then went on to have an excellent season as an 18 year in the AHL, and was vying for the #1 D spot by the end of the year. Raymond had a solid debut in the SEL last year, but as a winger I want to see more out of him before I put him above Mo's accomplishments. If he does really well in the SEL and puts up a dominant WJC offensively then I'm willing to re-evaluate, as he is obviously a year behind Seider.

2. Seider has an elite physical/ mental package. He is huge, is a solid skater, apparently great personality, very high hockey IQ, physical, and good at moving the puck. He has the raw tools to improve considerably based on his natural/ mental assets. Raymond is not quite as blessed in this department as he is only 5"10/6"0 but luckily he is a forward where plenty of smaller guys can still thrive. He is a very smart player like Seider, and seemingly has a good personality too from what I've seen.

3. Defense vs. Winger. To me a top 2 dman is more important to a team than an elite winger. In the past 10 or so years the only wingers to have teams successfully build around them are Kane/ Kucherov/ Ovy. Rarely do you see teams win the cup when their best player is a winger. D is just a more important position and projecting to be a top end D is more impressive than a top end winger to me.

I don't think Seider is Pronger re-incarnated, but I do see him as a top pair 30-40pt guy that is dominant defensively. The kind of guy that rocks PK1 and adds to PP2 while logging 25 minutes a night and shutting down other teams top lines. I love his incredibly active stick, and the innate physicality he has.

I think Raymond becomes that top line playmaking winger, but is he a 90/100pt kind of guy? I'm not so sure as of yet. He has a ton of potential, but I will take what I see as more sure NHLer until proven otherwise. I can however see why people would rate him over Mo. I don't think either is that far off from the other. For me it really boils down to dman over winger preference.

 

[Frk It]

These were the only guys I felt like ranking... (counting Zadina, Svech, Cholowski as “graduated”)

Raymond
Seider
—————
Rasmussen
Veleno
Berggren
McIsaac
Mastrosimone
Johansson
Wallinder
————————
Tuomisto
Petruzzeli
Niederbach
Soderblom
Viro
Phillips
Grewe

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

1. Seider
2. Raymond
3. Berggren
4. Veleno
5. Johansson
6. Niederbach
7. Wallinder
8. McIsaac
9. Tuomisto
10. Soderbolm
11. Mastrosimone
12. Barton
13. Hanas
14. Moore
15. Tyutyayev
16. Sebrango
17. Kivenmaki
18. Viro
19. Eliasson
20. Bednar

 

[newfy]

This is the stuff I mean. He’s not. We are setting ourselves up for massive disappointment if we assume these things about Seider. Could he develop into a #1 or even a top pairing guy, yes? But that is if everything goes as planned.

If I read that guys post correctly, hes saying best defensive prospect as in best defensively. In that case I dont think theres an argument for anyone above Seider right now. All things considered, youre splitting hairs between Byram and Seider right now as best dman prospect not in the NHL.

He could develop into a top pairing guy pretty easily. He skates really well, hits, is great defensively. If the offense comes around a bit he could be a number one. Realistically, how he is defensively, if he is putting up 30-40 points consistently he would be considered a number one D man by most people

The real question is regardless of how you stack them, how do they rank against the other teams top 20 prospects? I would like to see that list. (Or maybe not )

On the polls section of HFboards, theyre doing a series of polls for best prospects in the league after the draft. The wings have 3 of the top 11, so its definitely not worth putting a sad face like that lol. Theyre the only team to have 3 top 11

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Baker's dozen make the NHL (more than just a cup of coffee).

Zadina has graduated to NHL full-time already.


Seider-19
Raymond-20
Veleno-18
Johannson-19
Berggren-18
Wallinder-20
Rasmussen-17
McIssac-18
Lindstrom-17
Tuomisto-19
Niederbach-20
Viro-20
Soderblom-18
--------------------------
Longshots:

Svech-15
Hanas-20
Cholo-16
Maestro (nickname)-19
Grewe-19
Smith-16
Pearson-15
etc. etc.

 

[Killerjas]

People sleeping on Barton

 

[HisNoodliness]

My prospect rankings:
1. Raymond- I think his upside is tremendous with every skill you could hope for and big game ability. 1-2 years from playing with the Wings. Projection: top line W with star potential
2. Zadina- absolutely elite shot and a complete offensive toolkit. He's already an NHL player and he's right there with Raymond for me whom I rate higher just because I see a little more potential but less certainty. Projection: top line W with star potential
3. Seider- big man that can skate and defend well. Had a great year in GR and looks NHL ready. Lacks the offense to be a true #1. Projection: #2D
4. Veleno- great skater and great passer. Defensively capable and about 1 year from NHL ready. Projection: middle 6 C
5. Rasmussen- big man that's ready for the show. Lacks offensive upside but can man the net front while being a defensively responsible at 5 on 5. Projection: bottom 6C
6. Berggren- highly skilled winger. Projection: middle 6 W
7. Wallinder- big D that skates really well. Game is raw with lots of potential. Projection: second pairing D
8. Johansson- smaller smooth skating D that's progressing nicely. Projection: second pairing D
9. Niederbach- potentially top 6 forward with a skilled, creative game. Projection: middle 6 F
10. Tuomisto- big D with a big shot and lots of offensive upside. Projection: 3rd pair PP QB
11. McIsaac- all around D that just hasn't taken that next step. Still solid. Projection: 3rd pair.
12. Lindstrom-smart, sound defensively, needs more offense and speed to play up the lineup. Projection: 3rd pair
13. Svechnikov- Has obvious skill, and grit. Seems to be an NHLer that could play just about anywhere in the lineup but needs to get past his injuries and establish himself. Projection 3W
14. Mastrosimone- skilled and smart. Needs to skate better and develop in general. Projection: 3W
15. I'll decide in the morning
Edit:
15. Hanas- Very intriguing offensive package, sick hands, needs to make skating gains. Projection: 2W
16. Tyutayev- Small winger with skill and vision. Seems unlikely to make it but will be good if he does. Projection: 2W
17. Smith- Gritty forward that's just about ready for the show. Projection: 4W
18. Sebrango
19. Viro
20. Soderblom

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

Reading through the Raymond vs Seider as the #1 prospect in the system arguments, I'll say from an unbiased opinion that it's a good problem to have. Call Raymond the top forward prospect and Seider the best defensive prospect in the system. I have followed Raymond for a couple if years now, and I'll say his upside is immense.

In terms of pure upside, I'd call Raymond the best prospect in the system (if everything breaks right).

In terms of who would become more important to the overall team if each hit their absolute upside, that could be Seider as a big minute eating defensive dman with some offensive ability.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Smallish winger vs 25-minute a night D.
Easy.

This is like reading the Sanderson vs any other option at 4 all over again. All Sanderson will do is log 30 minutes, run the first powerplay, shit gold bricks, and everyone else is just a small winger. Seider is just a lock to make the NHL and be given a role to log 25 minutes a night. Raymond though, he's just a small winger, how can we expect a small winger to do anything noteworthy. I have no problem with the lofty expectations for the defensemen, and I know you have a stronger favoring towards positions of need, but you can at least give Raymond a level playing field to work on.

For the sake of this list, I'm setting the cut off at 6' and below, and under 190lbs. Notable players with Raymond's physical profile (listed at 5'10.5" and 183 on EliteProspects) on the wing: Panarin, Marchand, Kucherov, Kane, Marner, Gaudreau, W.Nylander (right on the cut off). This is realistically what you are drafting Raymond to be. You are drafting someone you think can be a play driving, possession driving, top 25 point producing forward on the wing. Maybe he doesn't make it, but in the same breath, it's possible that Seider never develops enough offensive game to warrant being on the ice for 25 minutes a night.

What you have is a player with the potential to be among the best minute munching defenseman in the NHL, and a player with the potential to be among the best line driving, offensive spark plug forwards in the league (despite lining up on the wing). Lean which ever way you want, the gap should be minimal.

 

[Henkka]

We need a poll again.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Tier 1 - Elite Prospects (#1C/#1W/#1D)

1. Lucas Raymond

Tier 2 - Very good Prospects (Top 6 F or #2/3 D)

2. Moritz Seider

Tier 3 - Legit NHLers (Middle 6 forwards or 2nd pairing D)

3. Jonatan Berggren
4. Joe Veleno
5. Albert Johansson
6. Jared McIsaac
7. William Wallinder
8. Kirill Tyutyayev
9. Theodor Niederbach
10. Robert Mastrosimone

Tier 4 - Have a chance (Bottom 6 or bottom pairing)

11. Taro Hirose
12. Filip Larsson
13. Antti Tuomisto
14. Elmer Soderblom
15. Jan Bednar
16. Alex Cotton
16. Cross Hanas
18. Eemil Viro
19. Donovan Sebrango
20. Givani Smith
21. Keith Petruzzelli

Tier 5 - Interesting, but long shot prospects

Otto Kivenmaki
Seth Barton
Ethan Phillips
Albin Grewe
Carter Gylander

If I had included Zadina he would be in the 2nd tier with Seider; Rasmussen would be in the 3rd tier ahead of McIsaac; Svechnikov would be in the 3rd tier as well, though at the bottom; and both Lindstrom and Cholowski would be in the 4th tier.

As for Seider vs Raymond; Seider is relatively safe and will play in the NHL in a top 4 role, but I don't see him reaching the true #1D level due to his lack of offence. Raymond is someone I'm higher on due to his combination of two-way game and offensive ceiling, even if it is as a W he'll have a ton of value ala Mark Stone if he reaches his potential. For those reasons I have Raymond above Seider.

I think I'm much higher on Tyutyayev than most, but he's progressed extremely well the past 2 seasons and is a legit prospect for us.

Overall 2020 was an okay draft for the rebuild. We should move from 15-20 range in prospect pools into the fringe area of the top 10. We're still lacking elite pieces, but the depth is there at least.

 

[Frk It]

As I said in the other thread, I think you could make a good case for any of Raymond, Seider, or Zadina as the #1 prospect in the system. I'm optimistic about that trio.

After those 3, it is a pretty interesting group of players. Pretty good depth, IMO. I think the Johansson vs Wallinder debate could be interesting in Sweden. Both those guys have some very nice tools, looking forward to see how they develop. I am expecting a pretty big step from Mastrosimone at BU, and also a step forward from Phillips as well. I really liked those 2 picks.

Petruzzelli is our top goalie prospect IMO, unless Larsson can re-gain his form pre injuries. I am expecting Keith to build on his strong year from last year.

Very curious to see how Tuomisto does in the NCAA. We have a decent amount of guys in the NCAA to track with Mastrosimone, Phillips, Stange, Petruzzeli, Moore, Gylander, Barton, O'Reilly.

 

[J15]

On the polls section of HFboards, theyre doing a series of polls for best prospects in the league after the draft. The wings have 3 of the top 11, so its definitely not worth putting a sad face like that lol. Theyre the only team to have 3 top 11

I do think our prospect pool is relatively deep, but that poll is a pretty bad indication because of the bias it has away from players who made the NHL quickly and are no longer “prospects”.

Sure we have Zadina/Seider/Raymond who are all technically prospects but is that better than Kravtsov/Kakko/Lafreniere, or Dahlin/Cozens/Quinn, or Hughes/Podkolzin/Hoglander, or Smith/Hughes/Holtz, or Tkachuk/Stutzle/Sanderson?

 

[J15]

.

 

[raymond23]

Can’t we just have nice things and enjoy them?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I do think our prospect pool is relatively deep, but that poll is a pretty bad indication because of the bias it has away from players who made the NHL quickly and are no longer “prospects”.

Sure we have Zadina/Seider/Raymond who are all technically prospects but is that better than Kravtsov/Kakko/Lafreniere, or Dahlin/Cozens/Quinn, or Hughes/Podkolzin/Hoglander, or Smith/Hughes/Holtz, or Tkachuk/Stutzle/Sanderson?

Brady Tkachuk, Rasmus Dahlin and Quinn Hughes are no longer prospects. I see your point, though.

Honestly? I'd rank our top 3, top 5, and top 10 prospects easily in the top 5 of the NHL (Between 3 and 5 for most rankings).

The 2018 draft had an incredibly strong top 4 picks. The 2019 draft saw us really focus on improving our defense, and in 2020 we picked a lot of high end skill/skating combos in our first 3 picks, then our 3rd round looked pretty good in the skating department at the very least.

 

[J15]

Brady Tkachuk, Rasmus Dahlin and Quinn Hughes are no longer prospects. I see your point, though.

Honestly? I'd rank our top 3, top 5, and top 10 prospects easily in the top 5 of the NHL (Between 3 and 5 for most rankings).

The 2018 draft had an incredibly strong top 4 picks. The 2019 draft saw us really focus on improving our defense, and in 2020 we picked a lot of high end skill/skating combos in our first 3 picks, then our 3rd round looked pretty good in the skating department at the very least.

I think the point I’m making is that we shouldn’t be comparing our prospects against others teams prospect at all. A much more useful comparison is our U23 core, for example. Are we top 5 in the NHL there? Probably not.

 

[izlez]

I don’t understand how some of you have Mo at #1. Raymond and Zadina have higher upsides as impact players. Seider might develop into a #2, but it’s more likely he projects as a #3 guy. I can understand if you have Seider over Zadina if you’ve started to sour on Zadina for some reason, but Raymond is the best prospect in the organization with a bullet.

This is a great example of "your opinion".

I could easily take this exact statement and switch the names around. That would then make it "my opinion". Doesn't mean it's true, even if I present it as fact. That's why we have this thread

 

[newfy]

I do think our prospect pool is relatively deep, but that poll is a pretty bad indication because of the bias it has away from players who made the NHL quickly and are no longer “prospects”.

Sure we have Zadina/Seider/Raymond who are all technically prospects but is that better than Kravtsov/Kakko/Lafreniere, or Dahlin/Cozens/Quinn, or Hughes/Podkolzin/Hoglander, or Smith/Hughes/Holtz, or Tkachuk/Stutzle/Sanderson?

No the wings prospect pool is not better than teams who have won the lottery and ended up picking first overall. The rangers have won back to back obviously theyre going to be better. That doesnt change the fact that the wings prospect pool is still really, really good. You can enjoy the fact that the wings are where they are without a first overall pick. Youre also ignoring the fact that some of these young guys are coming into much better situations than what the wings young guys can right now and so they arent playing on the team right now. Zadina couldve easily been playing on Vancouvers PP with Pettersson, JT Miller and others and put up 25-30 goals last year and you would be singing a differnet tune. Instead, he got a call up on a bad team and got to play with Neilsen and helm the majority of the time

As for your comparisons though, I would still take the wings trio over Vancouvers despite what Hughes has done as a young guy in the NHL. He still has that first overall shine but I'm not sure I would trade for New Jerseys trio either to be honest. Its a bit of a hot take but we'll see. Smith/Holtz dont really compare to Raymond/Seider as far as I'm concerned. Hughes is going to be good but that was a concerning rookie year for him

I think the point I’m making is that we shouldn’t be comparing our prospects against others teams prospect at all. A much more useful comparison is our U23 core, for example. Are we top 5 in the NHL there? Probably not.

Where do you draw the line then? 23 conveniently leaves out 24 year old first line center/captain of an O6 team in Larkin. We can draw lines wherever we want to make certain things look better or worse. At the end of the day, Detroit has 3 of the top 11 players that this site is considering prospects without picking higher than 4th in the last 30 years

 

[Vector Cereal]

Leaving out Zadina since I don't see him going back to the AHL. That means Ras, Lindstrom, and Cholowski are included

1. Raymond
2. Seider
3. Rasmussen
4. Berggren
5. Johansson
6. Veleno
7. Mastrosimone
8. McIsaac
9. Wallinder
10. Tuomisto
11. Lindstrom
12. Sebrango
13. Neiderbach
14. Cholowski
15. Viro
16. Barton
17. Petruzelli
18. Svechnikov
19. Kivenmaki
20. Phillips
21. Smith
22. Hanas
23. Soderblom
24. Pearson
25. Tyutyayev

 

[J15]

No the wings prospect pool is not better than teams who have won the lottery and ended up picking first overall. The rangers have won back to back obviously theyre going to be better. That doesnt change the fact that the wings prospect pool is still really, really good. You can enjoy the fact that the wings are where they are without a first overall pick. Youre also ignoring the fact that some of these young guys are coming into much better situations than what the wings young guys can right now and so they arent playing on the team right now. Zadina couldve easily been playing on Vancouvers PP with Pettersson, JT Miller and others and put up 25-30 goals last year and you would be singing a differnet tune. Instead, he got a call up on a bad team and got to play with Neilsen and helm the majority of the time

As for your comparisons though, I would still take the wings trio over Vancouvers despite what Hughes has done as a young guy in the NHL. He still has that first overall shine but I'm not sure I would trade for New Jerseys trio either to be honest. Its a bit of a hot take but we'll see. Smith/Holtz dont really compare to Raymond/Seider as far as I'm concerned. Hughes is going to be good but that was a concerning rookie year for him



Where do you draw the line then? 23 conveniently leaves out 24 year old first line center/captain of an O6 team in Larkin. We can draw lines wherever we want to make certain things look better or worse. At the end of the day, Detroit has 3 of the top 11 players that this site is considering prospects without picking higher than 4th in the last 30 years

I’m not trying to discredit the Wings prospects at all, I’m just saying that if we are attempting to measure ourselves against the rest of the league in terms of the future potential of our franchise, then we should look at all young players and not arbitrarily exclude the ones that have made the NHL. Obviously drawing a hard line anywhere won’t be perfect, but it seems a lot more intuitive to draw that line based on age, not based on the best young players not currently in the NHL.

Obviously we haven’t had the same lottery luck as other teams, it is what it is. But at the end of the day we still have to beat those teams to win a cup, so it’s important to put our impressive prospect pool in context and be realistic with where we are in the rebuild.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Seider to me is #1.
- I think he has Ryan Suter level upside, that is 25 plus mins a game, every game, in all situations with a few 40 pt seasons

Raymond to me is #2
- i think he has top line potential with consistent 70pt seasons and perhaps 1 or 2 over 80pts