Flyers' History: Top 10s in Flyers history and other recollections

Kelmitchell2

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So I wasn't old enough to see him play. But all my life my step dad had told me that pelle Lindberg was hands down the best goalie he'd ever seen, and had he not passed away the flyers were going to win more Stanley cups, can any of the guys here who have seen him play, describe just how good he was?
 

Kelmitchell2

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Aug 30, 2020
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The thing that puts this year over 06-07 is the total lack of hope going forward. For me at least
Yeah, we had money to spend on free agents like briere who was still in his prime, now we don't even have money to spend to fill out a team lol chuckles really shit the bed, excuse maybe I should be blaming hextall since it's all his fault :sarcasm:
 

BiggE

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So I wasn't old enough to see him play. But all my life my step dad had told me that pelle Lindberg was hands down the best goalie he'd ever seen, and had he not passed away the flyers were going to win more Stanley cups, can any of the guys here who have seen him play, describe just how good he was?
Lindbergh's style was much like his mentor Bernie Parent's. While not a strict "stand up" goalie like Bernie, he had lightning quick reflexes and played his angles very well. His only real weakness was his puckhandling, but that was not considered to be an important part of a goalie's makeup in the early to mid 1980s. All in all, he's the 2nd best goaltender, after Parent, to ever wear the orange and black and, from 84 til that tragic day in November of 85, he was the best goalie in the world.
 

BiggE

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Here are a few more "what if" scenarios and where they might have led. We'll begin with the draft. I only looked at 1st and 2nd round changes as later picks are basically crapshoots and there are just too many to consider.

1982: Scott Stevens who went 5th OA instead of Ron Sutter who went to Philly one pick earlier.
While losing Sutter would have hurt, they still had Clarke and Sittler at that time and would soon have Poulin and could have still drafted Zezel in 83. By 84-85, the Flyers D could have been:
Howe-McCrimmon
Stevens-Crossman
Marsh-Hospador
Eriksson
While being deep as a D can be, having Stevens also means that Howe could play a few less minutes per night and reduce his wear and tear.

1985: The Flyers take Glen Seabrooke with the last pick of the 1st round. 6 picks later, early in round 2, the Flames take Joe Nieuwendyke. Enough said, it was one of Clarke's worst picks and he's had some pretty bad ones.

1986: With 3 picks between 20oa and 28oa, the Flyers take Kerry Huffman, Jukka-Pekka Seppo, and the legendary Kent Hawley. With the 29oa pick, the Jets take Dman Teppo Numminen. Just kill me now.

1990: This one gets talked about all the time. The Flyers with the 4th pick take center Mike Ricci while the Pens select Jaromir Jagr at 5. In the Flyers defense, they were woefully thin at center and Ricci was regarded as a future captain and point per game player by nearly every scout. Obviously though, in hindsight, they got it wrong.

1992: While it wasn't the best of drafts, the Flyers really missed badly with Ryan Sittler at 7 and Jason Bowen at 15. Imagine if instead of those 2, they had taken Sergei Gonchar and Jason Smith.

1999: The Flyers take the total bust that was goalie Maxime Oulette in the 1st round. While it wasn't the greatest draft and the guy is a total piece of shit, Martin Havlat still would have been the much better choice.

2005: After a year of no hockey, the lottery did the Flyers no favors and they were stuck with not picking until the 29th selection. Even so, choosing Steve Downie over Marc-Eduoard Vlasic who went just 6 picks later to San Jose was a big screw up.

2008: With the 19th oa pick, the Flyers took Swiss Dman Luca Sbisa. A few minutes later, Jordan Eberle went 22nd and then John Carlson at 27.

2013: Sam Morin, who would be sadly betrayed by his own body, was taken by the Flyers at #13. While I don't fault them for taking a Dman, they would have been a lot better off taking either of Ryan Pulock or Josh Morrissey who were still both on the board. Even assuming Morin was going to be healthy, I liked both of the other 2 more at the time.

2014: Still concentrating on D, GM Paul Holmgren takes Travis Sanheim with the 17th pick. Some guy named David Pastrnak goes 25th to Boston. While I like Sanheim, I'm pretty sure they are at least somewhat pleased with him, he ain't Pasta!

And finally, and as painful as any...

2017: The Flyers take Nolan Patrick with the 2nd pick instead of Makar, Heiskanen or Pettersson. Yeah, that worked out well.

Next up, probably not today though, lol, I'll look at some trades that either should, or shouldn't of happened.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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Here are a few more "what if" scenarios and where they might have led. We'll begin with the draft. I only looked at 1st and 2nd round changes as later picks are basically crapshoots and there are just too many to consider.

1982: Scott Stevens who went 5th OA instead of Ron Sutter who went to Philly one pick earlier.
While losing Sutter would have hurt, they still had Clarke and Sittler at that time and would soon have Poulin and could have still drafted Zezel in 83. By 84-85, the Flyers D could have been:
Howe-McCrimmon
Stevens-Crossman
Marsh-Hospador
Eriksson
While being deep as a D can be, having Stevens also means that Howe could play a few less minutes per night and reduce his wear and tear.

1985: The Flyers take Glen Seabrooke with the last pick of the 1st round. 6 picks later, early in round 2, the Flames take Joe Nieuwendyke. Enough said, it was one of Clarke's worst picks and he's had some pretty bad ones.

1986: With 3 picks between 20oa and 28oa, the Flyers take Kerry Huffman, Jukka-Pekka Seppo, and the legendary Kent Hawley. With the 29oa pick, the Jets take Dman Teppo Numminen. Just kill me now.

1990: This one gets talked about all the time. The Flyers with the 4th pick take center Mike Ricci while the Pens select Jaromir Jagr at 5. In the Flyers defense, they were woefully thin at center and Ricci was regarded as a future captain and point per game player by nearly every scout. Obviously though, in hindsight, they got it wrong.

1992: While it wasn't the best of drafts, the Flyers really missed badly with Ryan Sittler at 7 and Jason Bowen at 15. Imagine if instead of those 2, they had taken Sergei Gonchar and Jason Smith.

1999: The Flyers take the total bust that was goalie Maxime Oulette in the 1st round. While it wasn't the greatest draft and the guy is a total piece of shit, Martin Havlat still would have been the much better choice.

2005: After a year of no hockey, the lottery did the Flyers no favors and they were stuck with not picking until the 29th selection. Even so, choosing Steve Downie over Marc-Eduoard Vlasic who went just 6 picks later to San Jose was a big screw up.

2008: With the 19th oa pick, the Flyers took Swiss Dman Luca Sbisa. A few minutes later, Jordan Eberle went 22nd and then John Carlson at 27.

2013: Sam Morin, who would be sadly betrayed by his own body, was taken by the Flyers at #13. While I don't fault them for taking a Dman, they would have been a lot better off taking either of Ryan Pulock or Josh Morrissey who were still both on the board. Even assuming Morin was going to be healthy, I liked both of the other 2 more at the time.

2014: Still concentrating on D, GM Paul Holmgren takes Travis Sanheim with the 17th pick. Some guy named David Pastrnak goes 25th to Boston. While I like Sanheim, I'm pretty sure they are at least somewhat pleased with him, he ain't Pasta!

And finally, and as painful as any...

2017: The Flyers take Nolan Patrick with the 2nd pick instead of Makar, Heiskanen or Pettersson. Yeah, that worked out well.

Next up, probably not today though, lol, I'll look at some trades that either should, or shouldn't of happened.

Listen to me very carefully. If Zezel-Bullard is not #1, I will never speak to you again.
 
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BiggE

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What if in 1984, the Flyers got a real GM instead of shackling their eternal fate to a useless slob?
While I can’t stand him today, and I wish Clarke had completely retired and headed down to Florida in 2004, he was relatively successful as a GM in Philly.
1st stint: 84-90
Playoffs 5 of 6 years, reached the Conference final 3 times and SCF twice.

2nd stint pre lockout 94-04: not as good as the first but still,
10 consecutive playoff appearances
4 conference final appearances
1 trip to the SCF

All that being said, he need to retire in 2004. Clarke was never able to grasp the changes that were made during the modern era or understand how to build while dealing with a salary cap.
 
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Beef Invictus

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While I can’t stand him today, and I wish Clarke had completely retired and headed down to Florida in 2004, he was relatively successful as a GM in Philly.
1st stint: 84-90
Playoffs 5 of 6 years, reached the Conference final 3 times and SCF twice.

2nd stint pre lockout 94-04: not as good as the first but still,
10 consecutive playoff appearances
4 conference final appearances
1 trip to the SCF

All that being said, he need to retire in 2004. Clarke was never able to grasp the changes that were made during the modern era or understand how to build while dealing with a salary cap.

But if you look at his team in the first stint, he didn't really build that.
 

BiggE

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But if you look at his team in the first stint, he didn't really build that.
Yes and no, he didn’t draft or acquire a lot of the players, but he made some pretty good moves, especially early on.
Hired Keenan
Swapped Sittler for Craven+
Swapped Rich Sutter for Daigneault
Traded Froese for K Samuelsson & a 2nd

He made some terrible deals too and drafted poorly, but he was far from the worst GM of his era and much better than the epic f*** up that is Cuck Fletcher.
 

Beef Invictus

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Yes and no, he didn’t draft or acquire a lot of the players, but he made some pretty good moves, especially early on.
Hired Keenan
Swapped Sittler for Craven+
Swapped Rich Sutter for Daigneault
Traded Froese for K Samuelsson & a 2nd

He made some terrible deals too and drafted poorly, but he was far from the worst GM of his era and much better than the epic f*** up that is Cuck Fletcher.

My recollection was that McCammon did draft well, so I wonder what happens if he is kept as GM and replaced as coach.
 
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BiggE

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My recollection was that McCammon did draft well, so I wonder what happens if he is kept as GM and replaced as coach.
Not sure if McCammon would have took that deal as Pittsburgh was offering him GM/ coach and he wanted both. McCammon never went on to accomplish much after being fired in Philly.

The smart move would have been to let McCammon go and just let Keith Allen continue as GM. Snider regretted not doing this. Allen might have been getting older but between 1979 and 1983 he acquired all of the following:
Lindbergh
Froese
Hextall
Howe
McCrimmon
Marsh
Eriksson
Poulin
Propp
Kerr
Sinisalo
Ron Sutter
Carson
Brown

That’s a pretty good group!
 
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Beef Invictus

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Not sure if McCammon would have took that deal as Pittsburgh was offering him GM/ coach and he wanted both. McCammon never went on to accomplish much after being fired in Philly.

So instead of letting Clarke ruin the Flyers longterm we have him work as organizational enforcer. He beats up MacCammon and makes him stay for this experiment. Then he beats up free agents until they sign for cheap. EZ.

I should be in charge.
 
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Not sure if McCammon would have took that deal as Pittsburgh was offering him GM/ coach and he wanted both. McCammon never went on to accomplish much after being fired in Philly.

The smart move would have been to let McCammon go and just let Keith Allen continue as GM. Snider regretted not doing this. Allen might have been getting older but between 1979 and 1983 he acquired all of the following:
Lindbergh
Froese
Hextall
Howe
McCrimmon
Marsh
Eriksson
Poulin
Propp
Kerr
Sinisalo
Ron Sutter
Carson
Brown

That’s a pretty good group!

Allen is also huge what-if and is the last good team builder the Flyers had, but I've always discounted him due to age at that point; and I just now Googled him, I've thought he was like 75 but he was 61. Yes this was a huge mistake.
 
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BiggE

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And now a look at some trades that almost happened and some that should have never happened. We'll start with a deal that did happen in 1986, but was almost a much bigger deal.

1986: the Flyers swap Rich Sutter for Vancouver's JJ Daigneault
While this trade paid off well for the Flyers as Daigneault would score the biggest goal of his career for Philly in the 87 SCF, it was almost a much bigger deal. Originally the plan was for the Flyers to add Brian Propp to the deal and receive Cam Neely along with Daigneault. Instead Vancouver sent Neely to Boston and the Flyers made the smaller trade. What would have happened had the bigger deal occurred? Well, the Flyers certainly would have been much better prepared to survive the loss of Tim Kerr in the 87 playoffs if they had Neely on the roster. But, OTOH, the loss of Propp would have left them thin on the left side. Also, next to Hextall, Propp was probably the Flyers best player in the 87 playoffs and I don't think Neely would be enough to make up for the loss of both Propp and Kerr.

1987: Clarke trades McCrimmon for picks
Tired of negotiating with McCrimmon's agent for a new deal, Clarke sends him to Calgary for 2 draft picks. It was horrible deal and, in hindsight, Clarke admitted he f***ed up. They were only apart by a 100K or so in the negotiation but Clarke greatly underestimated the Beast's importance to the team both on and off the ice and made the lousy deal. You have to wonder if the 88 playoffs go a lot differently if the Flyer's had McCrimmon. Would they win the Cup? Probably not, Edmonton was a frickin' machine that season, but they likely at least reach the SCF and maybe the final.

1988: Clarke sends Peter Zezel to St. Louis for Mike Bullard
Yeah, Bullard might have been a better point producer, but he was woefully inconsistent and a one trick pony as he brought no other skills to the table. Zezel, while struggling, was a heart and soul player who never lacked for effort and, at that time, was the Flyers best faceoff guy. It was a bad trade all around.

Here's one of the ones that gets talked about a lot: What if the Flyers don't trade for Eric Lindros in 1992. Don't forget, had Peter Forsberg been willing to turn pro in 1992 rather than play another year in Sweden, this deal doesn't get made. So what would have been a possible outcome. Well, the fanbase would have missed out on the big guy, but having Ricci, Duchesne and a healthy Ron Hextall on the roster just might have been enough to squeak the 92-93 back into the playoffs. The Flyers also would have had their first round picks in 93 and 94 and, assuming they just barely made the playoffs each year, they might have drafted a guy like Adam Deadmarsh in 93 and and maybe Dman Mattias Ohlund in 94. In 94-95, the Recchi deal could still have been made and perhaps the Flyers win a couple of rounds. By 95-96, they would have been loaded with a roster featuring Forsberg, Leclair, Renberg, Brind'amour, Ricci, Deadmarsh, Dineen, Fedyk, Otto, Podein and Klatt up front, and Desjardins, Therien, Svoboda, Ohlund, Haller, Samuelsson and Dykhuis on D. Hextall would still be in goal and looking back at his stats, 95-96 was his last good season. Obviously no one can say what might have actually happened, but it certainly would have been interesting.

And here's another Lindros one, according to Jay Greenberg, there was some thought to trading Lindros following the 98 playoffs. Although he had come up small that spring, his value was much higher that it would be 3 years later when he finally was traded. Toronto would have been salivating to get Lindros in 98 and the Flyers might have been able to pry Mats Sundin from the Leafs along with a pick or prospect. It certainly would have made a 99 first round matchup with the Leafs fascinating! More importantly, having a healthy Sundin in the lineup in 2000 instead of Lindros perhaps would have been enough to at least get the Flyers into the final that year, and possibly a Stanley Cup.

Another trade that should not have been made:
The Flyers were a mess in 89-90, crushed by injuries, getting older and with little in the prospect pool, it was time to start tearing down and rebuilding. When Clarke swapped Brian Propp to Boston for a 2nd round pick, I thought that it made sense. But, when he trade Dave Poulin to Boston for an aging, fading Ken Linseman, I was furious. Bad enough that coach Paul Holmgren, for some dipshit reason that only made sense to him and Clarke, had taken the "C" off Poulin and given it to Ron Sutter, but trading him for anything other than picks and/or prospects was just asinine!

In January of 1998 the Flyers sent young forward Vinny Prospal along with Pat "Fat Balloon" Falloon and a 2nd to Ottawa for former 1st overall pick, Alex Daigle. Daigle, who oozed talent, was more concerned with starting a Hollywood career than playing hockey and he shit the bed badly. Daigle had less heart than the Tin Man at the start of The Wizard of Oz while Prospal turned out to be solid NHL forward. I really wish they had never made this deal.

In the year 2000, there was deal that never should have been made and one that I wish had been.
First the bad, Brind'amour for Keith Primeau. Primeau had his ups and downs as a Flyer but he was amazing in the 2004 playoffs. However, all in all, Brind'amour was the better player and he, as much as any player of his era, bled Flyers orange and black. I didn't like the deal when it happened and I hate it even more now. Rod Brind'amour should have finished his career in the orange and black. If he had, perhaps he'd be behind the bench today instead of that idiot Mike Yeo.

And now the guy they came oh so close to getting, but didn't: Dman Ray Bourque. Just imagine having Bourque on that 2000 team. It just might have been enough to bring the Cup back to Philly.

Just before the 2002 trade deadline the Flyers send hard working 4th line center Kent Mandeville to Pittsburgh for winger Billy Tibbetts. Tibbetts had been convicted of raping a 15 year old girl while he was 17 and playing Junior hockey. A complete piece of shit off the ice, Tibbetts was also a complete piece of shit as a player. The fanbase hated this deal from day one and, although a relatively minor move from a hockey sense, it's still one of the shittiest deals that Bob Clarke ever made.

2004: The Flyers trade Justin William to Carolina for Danny Markov. Markov was huge in the 2004 playoffs, playing monster minutes and playing them very well, and that cannot be overlooked. However, when you look at their overall careers, it's not even close. Justin Williams was the better player and a guy who always saved his best for the playoffs. Having 2 stud playoff performers in the lineup like Williams and Danny Briere, just might have been enough to get the Flyers past Chicago in 2010.

In December of 2005, the Flyers sent Patrick Sharp+ to Chicago for Matt Ellison+. I'll just leave it at this: EWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was almost as ugly in 2006 when the Flyers, right before losing Primeau for good due to concussions, send center Michal Handzus to Chicago for the heartless piece of festering garbage that was Kyle Calder. Just f***ing gross!

Another horrible deal went down in 2009 when the Flyers sent Scotty Upshall and a 2nd to Phoenix for Daniel friggin Carcillo. Thanks Homer.

Moving into more recent days, lets head into the previous decade. Pressured by Ed Snider, Holmgren signs free agent Ilya Bryzgalov to be the Flyers new #1 goalie in 2011. A year later, Sergei Bobrovsky threatens to go back to Russia unless traded and the Flyers are forced to move him to Columbus for a 2nd and a 4th. Bryz would go on to flame out horribly in Philly and would be bought out in 2013. Bob would go on to win 2 Vezina trophies and is currently backstopping the 1st place Florida Panthers. Kill me now.

Now let's look at some deals that never should have been made in the mid 2010s. By 2013, the more astute among the fanbase could see that this team needed to rectify it's messy cap situation and start rebuilding, but GM Paul Holmgren instead would move draft picks to acquire such luminaries as Nik Grossmann, Pavel Kubina and a bit later, Andrew "Farmer" McDonald. Add that to the puzzling free agent signing of Vinnie LeCavalier in 2012 and the terrible decision to trade JVR straight up for Luke Schenn that same year and it's no wonder the team hit rock bottom by 2015.

Finally some recent deals, all made by the simpering twat that is Cuck Fletcher, that no GM in his right mind should have ever made:
June 2019: the acquisition and signing of Kevin Hayes, the curse that keeps on giving.
July of 2021: goes from bad to worse as first Cuck gives Arizona 2 draft picks to take Ghost for nothing and then compounds the disaster by sending a 2021 1st (13oa), a 2022 2nd (likely in the 35-38oa range) and Bobby Hogg to Buffalo for the brainless POS that is Rasmus Ristolainen. This would lead to the even worse Fisto contract extension nightmare of 2022.

And that is that gang, I can't take anymore as I'm now thoroughly depressed and miserable!
 

Strawberry Fields

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And now a look at some trades that almost happened and some that should have never happened. We'll start with a deal that did happen in 1986, but was almost a much bigger deal.

1986: the Flyers swap Rich Sutter for Vancouver's JJ Daigneault
While this trade paid off well for the Flyers as Daigneault would score the biggest goal of his career for Philly in the 87 SCF, it was almost a much bigger deal. Originally the plan was for the Flyers to add Brian Propp to the deal and receive Cam Neely along with Daigneault. Instead Vancouver sent Neely to Boston and the Flyers made the smaller trade. What would have happened had the bigger deal occurred? Well, the Flyers certainly would have been much better prepared to survive the loss of Tim Kerr in the 87 playoffs if they had Neely on the roster. But, OTOH, the loss of Propp would have left them thin on the left side. Also, next to Hextall, Propp was probably the Flyers best player in the 87 playoffs and I don't think Neely would be enough to make up for the loss of both Propp and Kerr.

1987: Clarke trades McCrimmon for picks
Tired of negotiating with McCrimmon's agent for a new deal, Clarke sends him to Calgary for 2 draft picks. It was horrible deal and, in hindsight, Clarke admitted he f***ed up. They were only apart by a 100K or so in the negotiation but Clarke greatly underestimated the Beast's importance to the team both on and off the ice and made the lousy deal. You have to wonder if the 88 playoffs go a lot differently if the Flyer's had McCrimmon. Would they win the Cup? Probably not, Edmonton was a frickin' machine that season, but they likely at least reach the SCF and maybe the final.

1988: Clarke sends Peter Zezel to St. Louis for Mike Bullard
Yeah, Bullard might have been a better point producer, but he was woefully inconsistent and a one trick pony as he brought no other skills to the table. Zezel, while struggling, was a heart and soul player who never lacked for effort and, at that time, was the Flyers best faceoff guy. It was a bad trade all around.

Here's one of the ones that gets talked about a lot: What if the Flyers don't trade for Eric Lindros in 1992. Don't forget, had Peter Forsberg been willing to turn pro in 1992 rather than play another year in Sweden, this deal doesn't get made. So what would have been a possible outcome. Well, the fanbase would have missed out on the big guy, but having Ricci, Duchesne and a healthy Ron Hextall on the roster just might have been enough to squeak the 92-93 back into the playoffs. The Flyers also would have had their first round picks in 93 and 94 and, assuming they just barely made the playoffs each year, they might have drafted a guy like Adam Deadmarsh in 93 and and maybe Dman Mattias Ohlund in 94. In 94-95, the Recchi deal could still have been made and perhaps the Flyers win a couple of rounds. By 95-96, they would have been loaded with a roster featuring Forsberg, Leclair, Renberg, Brind'amour, Ricci, Deadmarsh, Dineen, Fedyk, Otto, Podein and Klatt up front, and Desjardins, Therien, Svoboda, Ohlund, Haller, Samuelsson and Dykhuis on D. Hextall would still be in goal and looking back at his stats, 95-96 was his last good season. Obviously no one can say what might have actually happened, but it certainly would have been interesting.

And here's another Lindros one, according to Jay Greenberg, there was some thought to trading Lindros following the 98 playoffs. Although he had come up small that spring, his value was much higher that it would be 3 years later when he finally was traded. Toronto would have been salivating to get Lindros in 98 and the Flyers might have been able to pry Mats Sundin from the Leafs along with a pick or prospect. It certainly would have made a 99 first round matchup with the Leafs fascinating! More importantly, having a healthy Sundin in the lineup in 2000 instead of Lindros perhaps would have been enough to at least get the Flyers into the final that year, and possibly a Stanley Cup.

Another trade that should not have been made:
The Flyers were a mess in 89-90, crushed by injuries, getting older and with little in the prospect pool, it was time to start tearing down and rebuilding. When Clarke swapped Brian Propp to Boston for a 2nd round pick, I thought that it made sense. But, when he trade Dave Poulin to Boston for an aging, fading Ken Linseman, I was furious. Bad enough that coach Paul Holmgren, for some dipshit reason that only made sense to him and Clarke, had taken the "C" off Poulin and given it to Ron Sutter, but trading him for anything other than picks and/or prospects was just asinine!

In January of 1998 the Flyers sent young forward Vinny Prospal along with Pat "Fat Balloon" Falloon and a 2nd to Ottawa for former 1st overall pick, Alex Daigle. Daigle, who oozed talent, was more concerned with starting a Hollywood career than playing hockey and he shit the bed badly. Daigle had less heart than the Tin Man at the start of The Wizard of Oz while Prospal turned out to be solid NHL forward. I really wish they had never made this deal.

In the year 2000, there was deal that never should have been made and one that I wish had been.
First the bad, Brind'amour for Keith Primeau. Primeau had his ups and downs as a Flyer but he was amazing in the 2004 playoffs. However, all in all, Brind'amour was the better player and he, as much as any player of his era, bled Flyers orange and black. I didn't like the deal when it happened and I hate it even more now. Rod Brind'amour should have finished his career in the orange and black. If he had, perhaps he'd be behind the bench today instead of that idiot Mike Yeo.

And now the guy they came oh so close to getting, but didn't: Dman Ray Bourque. Just imagine having Bourque on that 2000 team. It just might have been enough to bring the Cup back to Philly.

Just before the 2002 trade deadline the Flyers send hard working 4th line center Kent Mandeville to Pittsburgh for winger Billy Tibbetts. Tibbetts had been convicted of raping a 15 year old girl while he was 17 and playing Junior hockey. A complete piece of shit off the ice, Tibbetts was also a complete piece of shit as a player. The fanbase hated this deal from day one and, although a relatively minor move from a hockey sense, it's still one of the shittiest deals that Bob Clarke ever made.

2004: The Flyers trade Justin William to Carolina for Danny Markov. Markov was huge in the 2004 playoffs, playing monster minutes and playing them very well, and that cannot be overlooked. However, when you look at their overall careers, it's not even close. Justin Williams was the better player and a guy who always saved his best for the playoffs. Having 2 stud playoff performers in the lineup like Williams and Danny Briere, just might have been enough to get the Flyers past Chicago in 2010.

In December of 2005, the Flyers sent Patrick Sharp+ to Chicago for Matt Ellison+. I'll just leave it at this: EWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was almost as ugly in 2006 when the Flyers, right before losing Primeau for good due to concussions, send center Michal Handzus to Chicago for the heartless piece of festering garbage that was Kyle Calder. Just f***ing gross!

Another horrible deal went down in 2009 when the Flyers sent Scotty Upshall and a 2nd to Phoenix for Daniel friggin Carcillo. Thanks Homer.

Moving into more recent days, lets head into the previous decade. Pressured by Ed Snider, Holmgren signs free agent Ilya Bryzgalov to be the Flyers new #1 goalie in 2011. A year later, Sergei Bobrovsky threatens to go back to Russia unless traded and the Flyers are forced to move him to Columbus for a 2nd and a 4th. Bryz would go on to flame out horribly in Philly and would be bought out in 2013. Bob would go on to win 2 Vezina trophies and is currently backstopping the 1st place Florida Panthers. Kill me now.

Now let's look at some deals that never should have been made in the mid 2010s. By 2013, the more astute among the fanbase could see that this team needed to rectify it's messy cap situation and start rebuilding, but GM Paul Holmgren instead would move draft picks to acquire such luminaries as Nik Grossmann, Pavel Kubina and a bit later, Andrew "Farmer" McDonald. Add that to the puzzling free agent signing of Vinnie LeCavalier in 2012 and the terrible decision to trade JVR straight up for Luke Schenn that same year and it's no wonder the team hit rock bottom by 2015.

Finally some recent deals, all made by the simpering twat that is Cuck Fletcher, that no GM in his right mind should have ever made:
June 2019: the acquisition and signing of Kevin Hayes, the curse that keeps on giving.
July of 2021: goes from bad to worse as first Cuck gives Arizona 2 draft picks to take Ghost for nothing and then compounds the disaster by sending a 2021 1st (13oa), a 2022 2nd (likely in the 35-38oa range) and Bobby Hogg to Buffalo for the brainless POS that is Rasmus Ristolainen. This would lead to the even worse Fisto contract extension nightmare of 2022.

And that is that gang, I can't take anymore as I'm now thoroughly depressed and miserable!
Not a franchise destroyer but Seidenberg would've been nice to keep around on the backend for those late 00s/early 10s pre-dark age teams.
 

Larry44

#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
Mar 1, 2002
12,005
7,372
Lindbergh's style was much like his mentor Bernie Parent's. While not a strict "stand up" goalie like Bernie, he had lightning quick reflexes and played his angles very well. His only real weakness was his puckhandling, but that was not considered to be an important part of a goalie's makeup in the early to mid 1980s. All in all, he's the 2nd best goaltender, after Parent, to ever wear the orange and black and, from 84 til that tragic day in November of 85, he was the best goalie in the world.
Agree 100%
 

Larry44

#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
Mar 1, 2002
12,005
7,372
And now a look at some trades that almost happened and some that should have never happened. We'll start with a deal that did happen in 1986, but was almost a much bigger deal.

1986: the Flyers swap Rich Sutter for Vancouver's JJ Daigneault
While this trade paid off well for the Flyers as Daigneault would score the biggest goal of his career for Philly in the 87 SCF, it was almost a much bigger deal. Originally the plan was for the Flyers to add Brian Propp to the deal and receive Cam Neely along with Daigneault. Instead Vancouver sent Neely to Boston and the Flyers made the smaller trade. What would have happened had the bigger deal occurred? Well, the Flyers certainly would have been much better prepared to survive the loss of Tim Kerr in the 87 playoffs if they had Neely on the roster. But, OTOH, the loss of Propp would have left them thin on the left side. Also, next to Hextall, Propp was probably the Flyers best player in the 87 playoffs and I don't think Neely would be enough to make up for the loss of both Propp and Kerr.

1987: Clarke trades McCrimmon for picks
Tired of negotiating with McCrimmon's agent for a new deal, Clarke sends him to Calgary for 2 draft picks. It was horrible deal and, in hindsight, Clarke admitted he f***ed up. They were only apart by a 100K or so in the negotiation but Clarke greatly underestimated the Beast's importance to the team both on and off the ice and made the lousy deal. You have to wonder if the 88 playoffs go a lot differently if the Flyer's had McCrimmon. Would they win the Cup? Probably not, Edmonton was a frickin' machine that season, but they likely at least reach the SCF and maybe the final.

1988: Clarke sends Peter Zezel to St. Louis for Mike Bullard
Yeah, Bullard might have been a better point producer, but he was woefully inconsistent and a one trick pony as he brought no other skills to the table. Zezel, while struggling, was a heart and soul player who never lacked for effort and, at that time, was the Flyers best faceoff guy. It was a bad trade all around.

Here's one of the ones that gets talked about a lot: What if the Flyers don't trade for Eric Lindros in 1992. Don't forget, had Peter Forsberg been willing to turn pro in 1992 rather than play another year in Sweden, this deal doesn't get made. So what would have been a possible outcome. Well, the fanbase would have missed out on the big guy, but having Ricci, Duchesne and a healthy Ron Hextall on the roster just might have been enough to squeak the 92-93 back into the playoffs. The Flyers also would have had their first round picks in 93 and 94 and, assuming they just barely made the playoffs each year, they might have drafted a guy like Adam Deadmarsh in 93 and and maybe Dman Mattias Ohlund in 94. In 94-95, the Recchi deal could still have been made and perhaps the Flyers win a couple of rounds. By 95-96, they would have been loaded with a roster featuring Forsberg, Leclair, Renberg, Brind'amour, Ricci, Deadmarsh, Dineen, Fedyk, Otto, Podein and Klatt up front, and Desjardins, Therien, Svoboda, Ohlund, Haller, Samuelsson and Dykhuis on D. Hextall would still be in goal and looking back at his stats, 95-96 was his last good season. Obviously no one can say what might have actually happened, but it certainly would have been interesting.

And here's another Lindros one, according to Jay Greenberg, there was some thought to trading Lindros following the 98 playoffs. Although he had come up small that spring, his value was much higher that it would be 3 years later when he finally was traded. Toronto would have been salivating to get Lindros in 98 and the Flyers might have been able to pry Mats Sundin from the Leafs along with a pick or prospect. It certainly would have made a 99 first round matchup with the Leafs fascinating! More importantly, having a healthy Sundin in the lineup in 2000 instead of Lindros perhaps would have been enough to at least get the Flyers into the final that year, and possibly a Stanley Cup.

Another trade that should not have been made:
The Flyers were a mess in 89-90, crushed by injuries, getting older and with little in the prospect pool, it was time to start tearing down and rebuilding. When Clarke swapped Brian Propp to Boston for a 2nd round pick, I thought that it made sense. But, when he trade Dave Poulin to Boston for an aging, fading Ken Linseman, I was furious. Bad enough that coach Paul Holmgren, for some dipshit reason that only made sense to him and Clarke, had taken the "C" off Poulin and given it to Ron Sutter, but trading him for anything other than picks and/or prospects was just asinine!

In January of 1998 the Flyers sent young forward Vinny Prospal along with Pat "Fat Balloon" Falloon and a 2nd to Ottawa for former 1st overall pick, Alex Daigle. Daigle, who oozed talent, was more concerned with starting a Hollywood career than playing hockey and he shit the bed badly. Daigle had less heart than the Tin Man at the start of The Wizard of Oz while Prospal turned out to be solid NHL forward. I really wish they had never made this deal.

In the year 2000, there was deal that never should have been made and one that I wish had been.
First the bad, Brind'amour for Keith Primeau. Primeau had his ups and downs as a Flyer but he was amazing in the 2004 playoffs. However, all in all, Brind'amour was the better player and he, as much as any player of his era, bled Flyers orange and black. I didn't like the deal when it happened and I hate it even more now. Rod Brind'amour should have finished his career in the orange and black. If he had, perhaps he'd be behind the bench today instead of that idiot Mike Yeo.

And now the guy they came oh so close to getting, but didn't: Dman Ray Bourque. Just imagine having Bourque on that 2000 team. It just might have been enough to bring the Cup back to Philly.

Just before the 2002 trade deadline the Flyers send hard working 4th line center Kent Mandeville to Pittsburgh for winger Billy Tibbetts. Tibbetts had been convicted of raping a 15 year old girl while he was 17 and playing Junior hockey. A complete piece of shit off the ice, Tibbetts was also a complete piece of shit as a player. The fanbase hated this deal from day one and, although a relatively minor move from a hockey sense, it's still one of the shittiest deals that Bob Clarke ever made.

2004: The Flyers trade Justin William to Carolina for Danny Markov. Markov was huge in the 2004 playoffs, playing monster minutes and playing them very well, and that cannot be overlooked. However, when you look at their overall careers, it's not even close. Justin Williams was the better player and a guy who always saved his best for the playoffs. Having 2 stud playoff performers in the lineup like Williams and Danny Briere, just might have been enough to get the Flyers past Chicago in 2010.

In December of 2005, the Flyers sent Patrick Sharp+ to Chicago for Matt Ellison+. I'll just leave it at this: EWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was almost as ugly in 2006 when the Flyers, right before losing Primeau for good due to concussions, send center Michal Handzus to Chicago for the heartless piece of festering garbage that was Kyle Calder. Just f***ing gross!

Another horrible deal went down in 2009 when the Flyers sent Scotty Upshall and a 2nd to Phoenix for Daniel friggin Carcillo. Thanks Homer.

Moving into more recent days, lets head into the previous decade. Pressured by Ed Snider, Holmgren signs free agent Ilya Bryzgalov to be the Flyers new #1 goalie in 2011. A year later, Sergei Bobrovsky threatens to go back to Russia unless traded and the Flyers are forced to move him to Columbus for a 2nd and a 4th. Bryz would go on to flame out horribly in Philly and would be bought out in 2013. Bob would go on to win 2 Vezina trophies and is currently backstopping the 1st place Florida Panthers. Kill me now.

Now let's look at some deals that never should have been made in the mid 2010s. By 2013, the more astute among the fanbase could see that this team needed to rectify it's messy cap situation and start rebuilding, but GM Paul Holmgren instead would move draft picks to acquire such luminaries as Nik Grossmann, Pavel Kubina and a bit later, Andrew "Farmer" McDonald. Add that to the puzzling free agent signing of Vinnie LeCavalier in 2012 and the terrible decision to trade JVR straight up for Luke Schenn that same year and it's no wonder the team hit rock bottom by 2015.

Finally some recent deals, all made by the simpering twat that is Cuck Fletcher, that no GM in his right mind should have ever made:
June 2019: the acquisition and signing of Kevin Hayes, the curse that keeps on giving.
July of 2021: goes from bad to worse as first Cuck gives Arizona 2 draft picks to take Ghost for nothing and then compounds the disaster by sending a 2021 1st (13oa), a 2022 2nd (likely in the 35-38oa range) and Bobby Hogg to Buffalo for the brainless POS that is Rasmus Ristolainen. This would lead to the even worse Fisto contract extension nightmare of 2022.

And that is that gang, I can't take anymore as I'm now thoroughly depressed and miserable!
Great summary of our collective misery. Add selecting Ricci at #4 over Jagr in '90. With Jagr and Forsberg in '91, you have the makings of a dynasty right there and still have Brindy, etc.

It is depressing seeing how many stupid moves Clarke, Homer and Fletcher have made. I exonerate Hextall for keeping Hakstol based on miracle trade to get rid of Vinnie and the deal to move up and scoop Konecny at 24th. Hexy seemed to always win his trades, even when the draft picks he acquired didn't work out.

I'm sure they will go wrong again this offseason. Stupid, proven failures who have no plan, no clue and no hope don't make good decisions and end up with crappy hockey teams led by garbage like Hayes, JVR and Risto.
 
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BiggE

SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Jan 4, 2019
24,439
64,018
Somewhere, FL
Ok, this was a tough one. The top couple were easy, but after that it was really hard. Thus, quite a few honorable mentions!

THE TOP 10 STANLEY CUP FINAL GOALS IN FLYERS HISTORY!

HONORABLE MENTIONS (in chronological order)
Game 4 vs Boston 1974
Bill Barber on assists from Ross Lonsberry and Jimmy Watson breaks a 2-2 tie in the 3rd period with the game winning goal, giving the Flyers a commanding 3-1 series lead.

Game 2 vs Buffalo 1975
Bobby Clarke scores the game winning goal in the 3rd period to give the Flyers a 2-0 lead in the series. The final score was 2-1 and the assists were from Bill Barber and Rick Macleish.

Game 6 @ Buffalo 1975
Bill Clement, assisted by Orest Kindrachuk gives the Flyers a 2-0 lead in the 3rd period and that would be the final score as the Flyers clinch their 2nd straight Stanley Cup.

Game 6 @ NY Islanders 1980
John Paddock ties the game up at 4 in the 3rd period off of assists by Moose Dupont and Macleish. The ensuing OT is best forgotten.

Game 3 vs Edmonton 1987
There are 3 honorable mentions from this game. First, in the 2nd period, Murray Craven gets the Flyers on the board with assists from Rick Tocchet and Ron Sutter. Then, still in the 2nd, Peter Zezel scores unassisted to cut the Oilers to 3-2. Finally, in the 3rd period, Scott Mellanby from Mark Howe and Ron Sutter, ties the game up at 3.

Game 5 @ Edmonton 1987
There are two from this epic tilt. First off, Doug Crossman, off of assists from Brian Propp and Pelle Eklund draws the Flyers within one in the 2nd period. Second, still in the middle frame, Eklund scores on the powerplay from Propp and Tocchet to tie the game up.

Game 3 vs Chicago 2010
Claude Giroux scores in overtime to give the Flyers a must win in game 3 cutting Chicago's series lead to 2-1. He was assisted by Matt Carle and Danny Briere.

Game 6 vs Chicago 2010
Scott Hartnell scores a huge goal with just 4 minutes left in the 3rd tying the game at 3 apiece. He was assisted by his linemates Briere and Ville Leino. For about a half hour, we were all on cloud nine, but then, sadly, came Kane vs Leighton.

AND THE TOP 10!

10. Game 6 vs Edmonton 1987
Trailing 2-1 in the 3rd period and 3-2 in the series, Brian Propp, off a feed by Pelle Eklund and Doug Crossman, ties the game up and sets the stage for an epic follow up!

9. Game 5 @ Edmonton 1987
With Flyers trailing 3-1 in the series and in the unfriendly confines of the Northland Coliseum, Rick Tocchet scores in the 3rd period to shock the home crowd and make it a series. He was assisted by Brian Propp. Prior to the game the Flyers were given a copy of an Edmonton newspaper showing the Stanley Cup parade route and this just added more fuel to the fire. While everyone remembers game 6, none of it happens without this goal.

8. Game 2 @ Boston 1974
Having lost the first game in Boston and trailing 2-0 in game 2, the Flyers seemed to be in serious trouble. But a huge goal from Bobby Clarke early in the 2nd period gets the Flyers on the board and gives the team a much needed lift. The assists were from Cowboy Bill Flett and the Hammer, Dave Schultz.

7. Game 6 vs Edmonton 1987
This goal was perfectly summed up by Jay Greenberg as being scored by a plumber off of assists by a goon and a plugger! Down 3-2 in the series and trailing 2-0 in game 6, Lindsay Carson off of assists by Dave Brown and Brad Marsh cuts the Oilers lead to 1 in the 2nd period and the crowd goes wild!

6. Game 3 vs Edmonton 1987
Down 2-0 in the series and desperate for a home ice game 3 win, Brad McCrimmon scores a massively huge 3rd period goal to give the Flyers a badly needed 4-3 victory in game 3. The assists were by Scott Mellanby and (with his 3rd apple of the game) Ron Sutter.

5. Game 6 vs Edmonton 1987
Had the Flyers gone on to win the series this goal would probably be in the top 3. It was still epic though! The crowd had barely begun to sit down after Propp's game tying tally when little used defenseman JJ Daigneault came to the bench for a change. However, Mark Howe was still gasping for air (he only played about 35 minutes that night!) and he waved at Daigneault to stay on. As JJ crossed the Oilers blue line he intercepts an Oilers clearing attempt and blasts a shot past goaltender Grant Fuhr setting off a roar that almost blows off the Spectrum's roof for the 2nd time, and it gives the Flyers a 3-2 lead that would be the final score. I was there and yes, it was absolutely incredible!!

4. Game 2 @ Boston 1974
Going into the last minute of the 3rd period, the Flyers were still down 1 and just a minute away from being down 2-0 in the series. Every player on the bench knew that a win in Boston was a must if they were going to win the Cup. With Parent pulled for an extra attacker, Andre "Moose" Dupont scores off of apples by Clarke and Macleish to tie the game up, silence the Gaahden, and send us into OT!

3. Game 6 @ Buffalo 1975
Leading the series 3-2, the Flyers were looking to put the Sabres away in their own barn and bring the Cup to Philly for a 2nd straight year. However, Sabres goaltender Roger Crozier was having the game of his life and we were deadlocked at zero heading into the 3rd. During the intermission, coach Fred Shero wanted to put Clarke's line out to start the 3rd but assistant coach Mike Nykoluk had a great idea. Since that line had played a ton and were getting tired, how about putting the relatively fresh 4th line winger, Bob "Hound" Kelly out with Clarke and Reggie Leach? His idea paid off big time when, barely a minute into the 3rd stanza, the Hound, on assists from his linemates, scored the winning goal and put himself into the annals of NHL hockey history! The Flyers would go on to win 2-0 and bring the Cup to Philly for the 2nd time. FUN FACT: After the game, an older gentlemen was sitting in the locker room and congratulated Kelly on the goal and win. Kelly responded by telling the man to get the hell out of his seat. So, without any complaint, Pennsylvania Governor Milton Schapp got up and out of the Hound's seat!

2. Game 6 vs Boston 1974
Many will argue with me that this goal should be at number 1, but I will explain my reasoning when I go over my top selection. Now back to game 6! The Flyers led 3-2 in the series and wanted to avoid going back to Boston for a game 7 by any means necessary. Late in the first period, Rick Macleish tips a shot by the Moose past goaltender Gilles Gilbert and Spectrum erupts as the Flyers take a 1-0 lead. It would be the only goal needed as Parent was brilliant that afternoon and the Flyers become the first expansion to win the Cup and the first non "original 6" team to win a Cup since the Montreal Maroons in 1935. My 8 year old self was watching on tv and went nuts when I heard Gene Hart saying, THE FLYERS WIN THE STANLEY CUP over and over!! FUN FACT 2: The Bruins had iced the puck and there were still 4 seconds left in the 3rd when the celebration began and fans began storming the ice. However, with a faceoff in the Bruins zone, the officials ruled that there would not be enough time for Boston to score so they waived off those last seconds. The Bruins, to their credit, didn't argue.

AND AT NUMERO UNO.....

Game 2 @ Boston 1974
First, I'll set the stage a bit. For the first time that spring the Flyers, who were undefeated at home in the playoffs but only 2-3 (0-3 since their first round sweep of Atlanta) on the road, did not have home ice advantage. Therefore, to win the Cup, they had to win at least one game in Boston. Also, not one prognosticator or hockey publication had picked Philly to beat the Bruins. After losing game 1, the Flyers were in desperation mode. Going down 2-0 in the series meant that if any mistakes were made in the next two games, they'd be heading back to Boston down 3-1 for a game 5 that would likely end the series. As I mentioned with goal #4, the game had been tied up with a huge goal by the Moose and the Flyers headed to the cramped visiting locker room to catch their breath before OT. Captain Bob Clarke already had a goal and an assist in the game when, at 12:01 of the overtime, he scored the biggest goal in Flyers history and thus in Flyers Cup finals history, giving the Flyers a monumental 3-2 victory in Boston and a 1-1 tie in the series. The Flyers would remain undefeated on home ice that Spring and the Cup would come to Philly!

And there you have it, the top 10 Stanley Cup final goals in Flyers history. As always, please feel free to comment and I hope you enjoyed the read!
 
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MiamiScreamingEagles

Global Moderator
Jan 17, 2004
71,382
48,281
@BiggE

Well done and very descriptive. You heeded a suggestion and passed the test yet again.

I would make a few minor changes but the biggest would to include Bill Barber's goal in Game 4 1974 among the top ten. When Bobby Orr calls a goal "the greatest wrist shot...." he'd ever seen, that should speak volumes. It was something old Hollywood couldn't have produced with better imagery. It was a stunning blow to what is one of the most impressive Stanley Cup runs of all-time. And the frustration of Orr by Fred Shero's staggering, unique and thought-provoking strategy to tame the lion by giving him the puck was a glorious display of chutzpah. Barber's goal helped set the tone for Game 6. The Flyers lose game 4, series likely over.

MacLeish's assist in Game 2 1974 should not go overlooked. It may be one of the three most important assists in team history. It was that big.

Daigneault's Game 6 1987 goal was more exhilarating than the 1975 Cup clincher. Maybe not as important as the series result was a loss but I would have no problem putting it as high as number 3 in some categories. Tocchet's goal in Game 5 1987 was implausible. We all knew the Flyers would win in 1975, somehow someway but 1987 was something that the mind and body processed incessantly and with provocation that was pure delirium in a way that can never be duplicated. It made 2010 seem like afternoon tea at the Ritz-Carlton.
 

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