Too many New York teams?

[Tommy Hawk]

Really what?

I don't expect those cities to lose their teams but you never know. Portland went dark back in the mid 90's for one season when there was only 14 teams. All I am saying is no one should feel safe. It will come down to favorable leases, travel and the almighty dollar.

Yes, glad we have a team. Don't want to see it go away. Know it could.

Rather have Utica and glens Falls in the league than Bakersfield or Fresno or San Diego...I DON'T LIVE THERE.

It boils down to the western NHL teams OWNING their AHL affiliates. They will lose money on them out west, it is just a matter of how much they want to lose. If it is the same as the cost of a 4th line center, then they will succeed. If not, look for the Eastern roots with heavy Mid West presence to return.

Just reiterating, I live in upstate NY. Why wouldn't I rather have teams here? Nothing against larger markets or anyone or anyplace in particular out west.....I simply don't live there.

Providence lost the Reds in 1977 after many years. I believe Tommy Hawk stated that the Amerks were in trouble a few years ago when they were affiliated with Florida. I'll let him confirm....Just saying nothing is forever in the minor leagues.

Syracuse has had at least 4 franchises in the AHL over the years.

Who says they will lose money out wet? Also, who says they are not losing money in the east? It is which is more economically viable for the NHL team. If LA is losing $1 mil a year cash in Manchester and they will lose $1.3 mil a year in Ontario, there are other benefits they have by having the team in Ontario such as shared practice facilities, shared equipment supplies, etc. And you don't think that if ANY of the western NHL teams wanted to buy a franchise they couldn't? Even if an owner didn't want to sell? What did the AHL do for Texas when a franchise was not available? They made one until they could secure one.

And before you start spitting out Las Vegas and SF folding you really should understand WHY they folded before tossing the examples. The SOLE reason Vegas folded was not becuase of the child molestation charges or attendance or expenses, it was the same reason the Aeros ended up moving - They got tossed fro their arena and there are no other viable facilities. SF had a crappy facility, no real promotion, etc.

 

[adsfan]

Maybe we should move Adirondack and Utica to San Fransisco and Las Vegas respectively because the AHL would be better off with teams in big cities in the west because that would be good for business oh wait both teams ceased operations while both Utica and Adirondack were very successful. Honestly have you been to either city before you judge them I would bet not, but let's not let facts get in the way of another ignorant opinion. Seriously the hate coming out of the west towards cities they've never been to is ridiculous.

I have been to Utica and had a Utica Club beer. I went to Glens Falls in 2012 and stopped at the smallest Six Flags Park that I have ever seen. The arena is on a hillside by the Hudson River. I have stayed in Albany, Syracuse and Rochester. I have seen 2 AHL games in Rochester. I ate lunch in Binghamton in 1994.

BTW, SF has a poor track record for hockey teams. See IHL Spiders (cool logo but only one season) and ECHL Bulls (1.5 seasons), WHL SF Seals, NHL Seals.

 

[CJNewman]

I don't understand the hate towards New York especially Adirondack and Utica. It's obvious which teams are moving west. First Oklahoma City is going to Bakersfield, St. John's is going somewhere it seemed like Thunder Bay, but that seems less likely by the day, and Manchester is going to Ontario, but I feel someone will go there within 5 minutes of the Kings leaving. Their might be more I'm not sure, but realistically their isn't many legit west markets that would or could support an AHL franchise. I see 2-4 markets that are viable, but that's it. Also if Calgary and Vancouver were hell bent on being in the west they would be there.

 

[axecrew]

Really what?

I don't expect those cities to lose their teams but you never know. Portland went dark back in the mid 90's for one season when there was only 14 teams. All I am saying is no one should feel safe. It will come down to favorable leases, travel and the almighty dollar.

Yes, glad we have a team. Don't want to see it go away. Know it could.

Rather have Utica and glens Falls in the league than Bakersfield or Fresno or San Diego...I DON'T LIVE THERE.

It boils down to the western NHL teams OWNING their AHL affiliates. They will lose money on them out west, it is just a matter of how much they want to lose. If it is the same as the cost of a 4th line center, then they will succeed. If not, look for the Eastern roots with heavy Mid West presence to return.

Just reiterating, I live in upstate NY. Why wouldn't I rather have teams here? Nothing against larger markets or anyone or anyplace in particular out west.....I simply don't live there.

Providence lost the Reds in 1977 after many years. I believe Tommy Hawk stated that the Amerks were in trouble a few years ago when they were affiliated with Florida. I'll let him confirm....Just saying nothing is forever in the minor leagues.

Syracuse has had at least 4 franchises in the AHL over the years.

So based on the above highlighted comments.....because you don't live there then those cities named by you don't deserve a team? WOW pretty self-important of you to say don't you think....well I don't live in utica so based on that they don't deserve a team. What's good for one.....but guess what... doesn't matter what you or I think because like I said before.....we have no say. But I'll wager you this and anyone who diagrees feel free to flame away at me...The Chicago Wolves are in a better place than utica will EVER be franchise wise. Vancouver could pull its team out of there tomorrow and leave you with nothing....St. Louis leaves Chicago.....only thing happens is a new affiliation, Wolves will still be there, just different players is all.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I don't understand the hate towards New York especially Adirondack and Utica. It's obvious which teams are moving west. First Oklahoma City is going to Bakersfield, St. John's is going somewhere it seemed like Thunder Bay, but that seems less likely by the day, and Manchester is going to Ontario, but I feel someone will go there within 5 minutes of the Kings leaving. Their might be more I'm not sure, but realistically their isn't many legit west markets that would or could support an AHL franchise. I see 2-4 markets that are viable, but that's it. Also if Calgary and Vancouver were hell bent on being in the west they would be there.

I do not see where you think people are hating on NY. No one is hating on NY, just stating facts. The flames longest affiliation in the past 15 years was Abbotsford and only because Abbotsford was paying the flames and couldn't get out until 5 years.

Albany lost their team and the only reason they got another was because the Devils got tossed from Lowell by the COLLEGE team. The arenas in the east are mostly small, old, and out of date.

More teams have moves around in the east than in the midwest.

The western NHL teams (Anaheim, LA, SJ, AZ, Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton) are all affiliated with teams in the east with the exception of Edmonton who is affiliated with a team in the midsouth.

So when we are talking about teams that are impacted, the eastern teams are the more likely candidate simply because that is where the affiliation are located and where most of the teams are located.

And most of the eastern teams are in the bottom of the attendance. Some of that is because they have small arenas but not sure how playing in front of high school level / major junior crowds prepares the players for playing in front of 20,000.

So not sure why you are confusing facts with hate.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Who says they will lose money out wet? Also, who says they are not losing money in the east? It is which is more economically viable for the NHL team. If LA is losing $1 mil a year cash in Manchester and they will lose $1.3 mil a year in Ontario, there are other benefits they have by having the team in Ontario such as shared practice facilities, shared equipment supplies, etc. And you don't think that if ANY of the western NHL teams wanted to buy a franchise they couldn't? Even if an owner didn't want to sell? What did the AHL do for Texas when a franchise was not available? They made one until they could secure one.

And before you start spitting out Las Vegas and SF folding you really should understand WHY they folded before tossing the examples. The SOLE reason Vegas folded was not becuase of the child molestation charges or attendance or expenses, it was the same reason the Aeros ended up moving - They got tossed fro their arena and there are no other viable facilities. SF had a crappy facility, no real promotion, etc.

Never said anything about Vegas or SF. Everything you say makes sense. Sure all the western teams that don't own their AHL franchise could buy one in 10 minutes.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

So based on the above highlighted comments.....because you don't live there then those cities named by you don't deserve a team? WOW pretty self-important of you to say don't you think....well I don't live in utica so based on that they don't deserve a team. What's good for one.....but guess what... doesn't matter what you or I think because like I said before.....we have no say. But I'll wager you this and anyone who diagrees feel free to flame away at me...The Chicago Wolves are in a better place than utica will EVER be franchise wise. Vancouver could pull its team out of there tomorrow and leave you with nothing....St. Louis leaves Chicago.....only thing happens is a new affiliation, Wolves will still be there, just different players is all.

No city DESERVES a team, Utica included. You are correct, we have no say. Agree Chicago and larger cities are in a better place and it would be harder for Utica, Binghamton, etc and other small arena NE cities to replace teams if they left.

Not being self important and don't think it it even sounded like that. Given a choice, rather have a team where I live. Rather have it AHL. Rather it not be ECHL. That is all I am saying.

You are right, once again, we have no control and we shall see. My vote, even though it doesn't count, is to have teams in NY, PA and New England. No hate here towards Bakersfield or Ontario or SF or Vegas or anyplace.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Never said anything about Vegas or SF. Everything you say makes sense. Sure all the western teams that don't own their AHL franchise could buy one in 10 minutes.

....or have one created....no matter how they could have one.

TH, I understand about the Aeros and Wranglers.

Guess we will all see what happens.

 

[axecrew]

No city DESERVES a team, Utica included. You are correct, we have no say. Agree Chicago and larger cities are in a better place and it would be harder for Utica, Binghamton, etc and other small arena NE cities to replace teams if they left.

Not being self important and don't think it it even sounded like that. Given a choice, rather have a team where I live. Rather have it AHL. Rather it not be ECHL. That is all I am saying.

You are right, once again, we have no control and we shall see. My vote, even though it doesn't count, is to have teams in NY, PA and New England. No hate here towards Bakersfield or Ontario or SF or Vegas or anyplace.

It has nothing to do with how big the city is...in fact if you look around on here you'll find numerous comments in threads about attendance and % of capacity and how it relates. Chicago is a huge city with tons of different things to do and have numerous pro sports teams. The Wolves still finish in the top 5 every year in average attendance.They averaged 7,927 last season, that's more than most buildings in the east even hold isn't it? It's not the size of the city that Chicago has in it's advantage, it's the fan base along with other things.
The Wolves have a state of the art practice facility that they built about 10 years ago and is still better than most, if not all, AHL teams along with a lot of NHL teams.
Another advantage is that there is an international airport about a 1/2 mile from where they play and about 15 minutes from the practice rink for player movements.
The fact is Chicago is just simply an attractive destination to a lot of NHL teams and why whenever there is an affiliation change there are multiple teams lining up to talk to them.....including teams who have their affiliates in the east now.

 

[Nightsquad]

It's really scary for many of the northeast fans with the prospect of teams heading west. There simply won't be enough AHL franchises to go around in the over saturated northeast, not in the AHL anyways. Rochester is positioned well because of Buffalo and Elmira. Despite the assurances I don't see Vancouver or Calgary staying beyond three years at most IF, notice I said if, the AHL west plan moves forward in the next two years. Once the dominos start falling into place that is a sure sign. I think if the plan moves forward northeast minor league markets will be in a dogfight for NHL affiliations close to home, Rochester is ahead of the game and has their place locked. The Albany arena has itself positioned well should the NY Rangers decide they have had enough of Hartford, likewise if Hartford has had enough of being the Rangers farm team. Albany has the arena, which is about to undergo significant renovations to bring it up to standards. Albany area of NY has probably the most healthy economy in all of Upstate NY. While that market is hard to put a handle on fans are there. Nobody expected Smallbany to finish the AHL playoffs with the best average attendance, heck when Albany had a stupid arena football team they average 10,000 to 13,000 fans per game, and the Troy Valley Cats of the low rung NYC-Penn baseball league averages 4000 fans per game so there is a market. Maybe Albany is just tired of how the NJ Devils conduct their business, I know the Devils really are known to neglect their AHL operations. Albany fans actually deserve a pass lol, they deserve credit for showing up with what they do lol. That wouldn't fly in any of the PA teams lol.... Over a decade of no playoffs and laughing stock of the league, nobody here could say they would support that organization better.... If you say otherwise I think you would be blowing smoke. A fan base that's two and half hours from NYC, three hours from Boston, and three and half hours from Montreal better be treated to a decent product, there are just too many other options. That minor league team better function with a major league perception. The Albany area already has an inferiority complex being close to NYC, a strong affiliation with the NY Rangers just might surprise everyone

 

[JungleJON]

For one, save for Hershey, nothing is permanent in the AHL.

Utica became a Utica College hockey town when there was no pro hockey for 13 years....14 games, $5.00 tickets.

Last year, the Comets were over 90% capacity and UC I believe averaged over 3300 per game...have to check but I know they sold more season tickets than ever before. The Comets and the college seemed to co exist nicely.

DuRoss and Esche essentially are the landlords for the college, MV Garden runs the Aud.

The D3 college hockey is not my cup of tea, although it is much more entertaining than the ECHL.

You may be right. Maybe all small AHL NE cities head west. Maybe they thrive and the AHL becomes a big city Midwest / West based league.

You may be wrong.

Hope the FHL makes it, somehow. I have my doubts but even that would be better than the ECHL.

I hope no one loses their team. I hope no one has their team drop a league or 2.

The NYS based teams and those in PA and NE are the core of the AHL. My gues is, even with shuffling, they will remain the strength of the AHL for quite some time.

God you sound like a broken record when it comes to you trashing the ECHL. Maybe you need to get some medical attention or psych treatment.

 

[Rumblick]

Really what?

I don't expect those cities to lose their teams but you never know. Portland went dark back in the mid 90's for one season when there was only 14 teams. All I am saying is no one should feel safe. It will come down to favorable leases, travel and the almighty dollar.

Yes, glad we have a team. Don't want to see it go away. Know it could.

Rather have Utica and glens Falls in the league than Bakersfield or Fresno or San Diego...I DON'T LIVE THERE.

It boils down to the western NHL teams OWNING their AHL affiliates. They will lose money on them out west, it is just a matter of how much they want to lose. If it is the same as the cost of a 4th line center, then they will succeed. If not, look for the Eastern roots with heavy Mid West presence to return.

Just reiterating, I live in upstate NY. Why wouldn't I rather have teams here? Nothing against larger markets or anyone or anyplace in particular out west.....I simply don't live there.

Providence lost the Reds in 1977 after many years. I believe Tommy Hawk stated that the Amerks were in trouble a few years ago when they were affiliated with Florida. I'll let him confirm....Just saying nothing is forever in the minor leagues.

Syracuse has had at least 4 franchises in the AHL over the years.

So based on the above highlighted comments.....because you don't live there then those cities named by you don't deserve a team? WOW pretty self-important of you to say don't you think....well I don't live in utica so based on that they don't deserve a team.

Just for kicks, Axe - point out where in those bolded comments you saw the word "deserve". Come to think of it, find the word even in the non-bolded comments. Take your time - I'll wait . . . . . . . . .

 

[CJNewman]

Let's settle this once and for all if you think that there is going to be 6 or more AHL franchises moving west tell us which ones and where exactly you think their moving. I'll even give you some easy ones so you don't have to think of all 6 or more. Oklahoma City/Edmonton to Bakersfield, Manchester/Los Angeles to Ontario, and St. John's/Winnipeg to Thunder Bay/?. There I gave you three alls you have to do is come up with at least another three. Only rule is it has to be realistically possible and can't have holes poked in it. Good luck.

 

[Blueshirts]

The Kings have won the Stanley Cup 2 out of the last 3 years. It doesn't appear that having their farmclub in Manchester is too much of a negative factor.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

It has nothing to do with how big the city is...in fact if you look around on here you'll find numerous comments in threads about attendance and % of capacity and how it relates. Chicago is a huge city with tons of different things to do and have numerous pro sports teams. The Wolves still finish in the top 5 every year in average attendance.They averaged 7,927 last season, that's more than most buildings in the east even hold isn't it? It's not the size of the city that Chicago has in it's advantage, it's the fan base along with other things.
The Wolves have a state of the art practice facility that they built about 10 years ago and is still better than most, if not all, AHL teams along with a lot of NHL teams.
Another advantage is that there is an international airport about a 1/2 mile from where they play and about 15 minutes from the practice rink for player movements.
The fact is Chicago is just simply an attractive destination to a lot of NHL teams and why whenever there is an affiliation change there are multiple teams lining up to talk to them.....including teams who have their affiliates in the east now.

fair and accurate points.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

God you sound like a broken record when it comes to you trashing the ECHL. Maybe you need to get some medical attention or psych treatment.

Yawn

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Yawn

ECHL is just not my cup of tea. Seen it, rather watch paint dry, much more exciting.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Let's settle this once and for all if you think that there is going to be 6 or more AHL franchises moving west tell us which ones and where exactly you think their moving. I'll even give you some easy ones so you don't have to think of all 6 or more. Oklahoma City/Edmonton to Bakersfield, Manchester/Los Angeles to Ontario, and St. John's/Winnipeg to Thunder Bay/?. There I gave you three alls you have to do is come up with at least another three. Only rule is it has to be realistically possible and can't have holes poked in it. Good luck.

Why in the heck do you keep putting Winnipeg in with the western teams? Hav you never looked at a map? Let me help you. Winnipeg is darn near straight north from Dallas, Texas. http://www.mapquest.com/ca/mb/winnipeg

Why do you think Edmonton will be moving?

Who cares where they go?? AZ and Anaheim don't even own an AHL team yet. Maybe LA will go to San Diego or Orange County somewhere.

Here are the NHL teams that I think will have their AHL affiliate (not necessarily owning their affiliates) closer to home in the next 2-3 years:

1) LA
2) Anaheim
3) Vancouver
4) San Jose
5) Calgary
6) Denver or Edmonton

I am not sure AZ will be around since they will most likely hit their loss target and move after 4 more seasons so I doubt that they would make any financial commitment to a team near AZ.

ECHL is just not my cup of tea. Seen it, rather watch paint dry, much more exciting.

A lot of people feel that way about the AHL. Te AHL is now a glorified Major Junior league in my eyes and is barely above the ECHL and far below the NHL and the European leagues.

 

[CJNewman]

Why in the heck do you keep putting Winnipeg in with the western teams? Hav you never looked at a map? Let me help you. Winnipeg is darn near straight north from Dallas, Texas. http://www.mapquest.com/ca/mb/winnipeg

Why do you think Edmonton will be moving?

Who cares where they go?? AZ and Anaheim don't even own an AHL team yet. Maybe LA will go to San Diego or Orange County somewhere.

Here are the NHL teams that I think will have their AHL affiliate (not necessarily owning their affiliates) closer to home in the next 2-3 years:

1) LA
2) Anaheim
3) Vancouver
4) San Jose
5) Calgary
6) Denver or Edmonton

I am not sure AZ will be around since they will most likely hit their loss target and move after 4 more seasons so I doubt that they would make any financial commitment to a team near AZ.




A lot of people feel that way about the AHL. Te AHL is now a glorified Major Junior league in my eyes and is barely above the ECHL and far below the NHL and the European leagues.

So what you said was a bunch of nothing. I asked a question and you felt it necessary to respond by not answering so why answer. Who is moving and where are they going pretty simple question. If you don't know don't answer.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

So what you said was a bunch of nothing. I asked a question and you felt it necessary to respond by not answering so why answer. Who is moving and where are they going pretty simple question. If you don't know don't answer.

Not sure how you figured I didn't answer the question. I answered who is moving. As for the where, who cares? I don't, do you? Vancouver will move to Abbotsford, San Jose to San Francisco or Stockton, Anaheim and LA to Orange County and San Diego, Flames to Red Deer and Edmonton to Red Deer.

And Winnipeg is not a western team so who care where they go.......They are not part of the discussion of either NY teams or the western movement.

 

[axecrew]

Just for kicks, Axe - point out where in those bolded comments you saw the word "deserve". Come to think of it, find the word even in the non-bolded comments. Take your time - I'll wait . . . . . . . . .

Ok RUM here comes your "kick"....I never said the word derserve was said.....I said it not him/her. It still fits tho.

 

[CJNewman]

Not sure how you figured I didn't answer the question. I answered who is moving. As for the where, who cares? I don't, do you? Vancouver will move to Abbotsford, San Jose to San Francisco or Stockton, Anaheim and LA to Orange County and San Diego, Flames to Red Deer and Edmonton to Red Deer.

And Winnipeg is not a western team so who care where they go.......They are not part of the discussion of either NY teams or the western movement.

Actually where is the most important thing. Who says these cities even want an AHL team. First of all theirs $13.5 million reasons why Vancouver isn't going to Abbotsford and also the fact that Abbotsford used it's "territorial rights" to block the Canucks from putting their affiliate in Vancouver for a year doesn't help either. As for the Sharks moving to San Fransisco if past history is indicitive of future results the Westboro Baptist Church would draw better than a minor league hockey team would there and the fact that Stockton is bankrupt might put a damper on the renovations needed to upgrade the arena. As for Los Angeles I already said I think their going to Ontario and Anaheim in San Diego is laughable. Now on to Calgary and Edmonton what are they going to both play in Red Deer also it seems appearant that Edmonton is moving to Bakersfield next year considering they bought the Condors and their lease with Oklahoma City is up at the end of the year. Also one of the dirty little secrets the AHL tries to keep hidden is that the AHL really doesn't work in Canada just go to Wikipedia and look up all the failed Canadian franchises. As for Winnipeg they are officially gone from St. John's after this year and it looks ever more likely Thunder Bay won't happen so they needs city to go and for me saying Winnipeg being in the west they are in that conference and they are over North and South Dakota who even with their deceiving names are in the west. So like I said before I am willing to admit if I'm wrong about something, but if you want me to come with facts or reasonable hypothesis not just made up malarkey.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Actually where is the most important thing. Who says these cities even want an AHL team. First of all theirs $13.5 million reasons why Vancouver isn't going to Abbotsford and also the fact that Abbotsford used it's "territorial rights" to block the Canucks from putting their affiliate in Vancouver for a year doesn't help either. As for the Sharks moving to San Fransisco if past history is indicitive of future results the Westboro Baptist Church would draw better than a minor league hockey team would there and the fact that Stockton is bankrupt might put a damper on the renovations needed to upgrade the arena. As for Los Angeles I already said I think their going to Ontario and Anaheim in San Diego is laughable. Now on to Calgary and Edmonton what are they going to both play in Red Deer also it seems appearant that Edmonton is moving to Bakersfield next year considering they bought the Condors and their lease with Oklahoma City is up at the end of the year. Also one of the dirty little secrets the AHL tries to keep hidden is that the AHL really doesn't work in Canada just go to Wikipedia and look up all the failed Canadian franchises. As for Winnipeg they are officially gone from St. John's after this year and it looks ever more likely Thunder Bay won't happen so they needs city to go and for me saying Winnipeg being in the west they are in that conference and they are over North and South Dakota who even with their deceiving names are in the west. So like I said before I am willing to admit if I'm wrong about something, but if you want me to come with facts or reasonable hypothesis not just made up malarkey.

So you wanted to know where just so you can point to reason why they won't go there?

BTW, do you know why Stockton is broke? They built a NEW ARENA so not sure why it would nee the renovations you are talking about.

Abbotsford didn't block squat and that ship sailed so not sure why you are bringing that up.

The WHERE they go doesn't mean a small piece of diddly squat.

So do you consider Dallas in the west? How about Denver? Both are further west than Winnipeg. Winnipeg is barely west of Minneapolis.

[mod] And we have been talking the NHL western teams, not the AHL western conference.

If the NHL western teams want to move their AHL affiliate, they will move them from wherever they are currently.

Hutch makes more sense.

From now on I will let Axe post any responses to you in my stead.

 

[Rumblick]

Ok RUM here comes your "kick"....I never said the word derserve was said.....I said it not him/her. It still fits tho.

What "fits"? You brought the "d" word in to rebuke a post which had no mention of or even veiled reference to the concept. You quoted him and responded to him with a post that had no connection at all to the post you were responding to. I know sometimes you and Tommy love to prolong an argument this way; it never ceases to amaze me how often you do this.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

I don't have any solid proof or anything, but I assume if Manchester moves to Ontario, then the Ontario Reign of the ECHL moves to Manchester. Both teams are owned by the LA Kings and I assume they will simply swap locations.

As for Edmonton and Calgary, there is a big factor that blocks their moves into most Canadian cities in their general footprint, the Major Junior Western Hockey League. Were it not for the WHL, Oklahoma City would never have materialized, the Oilers were dead set on putting a team in Saskatoon, which is why they hung on to the dormant Roadrunners franchise for so long. However, the Blades have a hockey exclusive lease with Credit Union Centre stating they are to be the only hockey tenant, unless a team of higher caliber (which in the lease is specified as only the NHL or a similar major league and not the AHL) wants the building.

Red Deer is not a viable option either as the Rebels of the WHL already exist and likely are not going anywhere. There was a handshake agreement between the WHL and AHL that each would stay out of each other's backyards. When the AHL moved into Abbotsford, the WHL President was quoted in papers as saying this was tantamount to war etc. etc. This is why, the WHL left Winnipeg alone when the Moose were around. This is also why when rumours started to swirl about the Canucks moving their AHL team to Victoria, the WHL scrambled to strong arm (according to many) the Chiliwack Bruins into selling to Victoria owners.

Oddly, enough the WHL seems to be of more interest to some teams than the AHL. I know the Jets are interested in purchasing a WHL team, if a second tenant was all they wanted the Moose would never have left the 'Peg. When the Oilers still had the dormant Roadrunners, the offered a swap of franchises with the Saskatoon Blades owner. The Blades would move to Edmonton and the Roadrunners to Saskatoon. That idea fell by the wayside, when the WHL expanded to Edmonton with the Oil Kings.

So I highly doubt the AHL will be in Western Canada. The Flames and Oilers AHL affiliates will be in the United States somewhere. With the Oilers purchasing the ECHL Bakersfield Condors, my guess would be they would go there. As for Calgary, I have no solid idea, but Montana seems to be a place that is untapped for major hockey (no NCAA, Major Junior or pro), so perhaps Calgary would look at Billings? If the Western ECHL teams suddenly become in play (as the Pacific Division would be decimated with the loss of so many teams), I could see the Idaho Steelheads and Alaska Aces suddenly becoming available for the Flames. I would think Idaho would work better and Alaska would settle into a junior league, maybe even the BCHL.