Player Discussion Tomas Tatar

[angusyoung]

Montreal already have a very good player in Tuna, so why you want to bring another one instead of him. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... and Tatar has played pretty well for Canadiens since he came. Furthermore, he has most points and contract for next season. I am convinced that he is happy and will sign for couple more seasons. Together with Gallagher and Danault work perfectly. So why trade him? It does not make any sense.

 

[LaP]

Clearly you're not paying attention.

We have some good prospects both on the team and coming up.

The trades and draft picks the last couple of years have been superb.

And to be fair MB has even more picks coming up. Remember we got a second this year from chicago (and a third I believe the following year) for Shaw. That will be a high second.

Who projects as elite?

 

[scrubadam]

Its the wonderful circle, trade your good players and then whine and cry in a few years because you don't have good players. Lets trade Suzuki/KK/Claufield now and be ahead of the curve before they become good and we will have to trade them LOL.

And how many tankers have won cups lately if we don't count teams that tanked a decade ago? Ya Pens tanked in 2003/4/5 thats nearly 20 years ago! LA/CHI was like 10 years ago. Even WASH was in 2004. The NHL has changed tanking isn't the same anymore. You can't get a 1st overall and then Bam your a cup contender. Look at Jersey. 2 1st overalls, went out and got PK/Gusev for lots of picks and they stink. FLA/BUF have been bottom feeders and are barely better than the habs. Same with TOR that hasn't won 1 playoff round since tanking.

And habs have been tanking. You miss the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, draft 3rd OVA, trade away your top scorers ya thats an unintentional tank. Losing for another 4 years won't magically make things better. Shit managers tank. Good GM's get good players, hire good coaches, instill a winning attitude and have winning teams. You tank and you become Jersey or Ottawa, teams that are just bad that surround their elite talent with bad talent and bad coaching and end up going nowhere wasting that talents prime years and then lose them to trades and UFA.

 

[azcanuck]

Who projects as elite?

Caufield. Maybe even KK.

 

[LaP]

Its the wonderful circle, trade your good players and then whine and cry in a few years because you don't have good players. Lets trade Suzuki/KK/Claufield now and be ahead of the curve before they become good and we will have to trade them LOL.

And how many tankers have won cups lately if we don't count teams that tanked a decade ago? Ya Pens tanked in 2003/4/5 thats nearly 20 years ago! LA/CHI was like 10 years ago. Even WASH was in 2004. The NHL has changed tanking isn't the same anymore. You can't get a 1st overall and then Bam your a cup contender. Look at Jersey. 2 1st overalls, went out and got PK/Gusev for lots of picks and they stink. FLA/BUF have been bottom feeders and are barely better than the habs. Same with TOR that hasn't won 1 playoff round since tanking.

And habs have been tanking. You miss the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, draft 3rd OVA, trade away your top scorers ya thats an unintentional tank. Losing for another 4 years won't magically make things better. **** managers tank. Good GM's get good players, hire good coaches, instill a winning attitude and have winning teams. You tank and you become Jersey or Ottawa, teams that are just bad that surround their elite talent with bad talent and bad coaching and end up going nowhere wasting that talents prime years and then lose them to trades and UFA.

And what success did we have by trying to make the playoffs and hope for the best? I would like to know cause reading some guys here it's like we won 5 cups in the last 20 years. It's not working man. It just is not.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Caufield. Maybe even KK.

Add Romanov and Primeau.

And what success did we have by trying to make the playoffs and hope for the best? I would like to know cause reading some guys here it's like we won 5 cups in the last 20 years. It's not working man. It just is not.

What I don't really get about where you're going with your comment is that by everyone's account the last few years should have been total and utter dumpster fires according to the experts analyzing the roster. The tank was by all accounts on. Yet, the team did perform way, way better than expected.

The reality is the team just isn't as bad as where anyone projected it being, even (in my opinion) Bergevin.

 

[azcanuck]

Add Romanov and Primeau.

I was going to add Romanov. I forgot about Primeau.

Thanks.

 

[angusyoung]

Is Gopher from the Love Boat TT's Father?

 

[admiralcadillac]

I was going to add Romanov. I forgot about Primeau.

Thanks.

I think those are the four we're banking on the hardest, next group belongs to Poehling, Brook, Norlinder. Not sure if Suzuki is a prospect anymore.

Basically a top line winger, center, LHD and goalie as the top 4 prospects.

 

[scrubadam]

And what success did we have by trying to make the playoffs and hope for the best? I would like to know cause reading some guys here it's like we won 5 cups in the last 20 years. It's not working man. It just is not.

and I could say the same about drafting 3rd OVA.

The team hasn't been good enough, but you build to be better not worse. I mean you want to tank to get a high draft pick? Ok we did that with KK already. How many "tanks" do we go through? When can we stop tanking its been nearly 4 years of tanking is it enough yet? When will you know we have finished tanking? Or you have to go from worst team to a cup like the Pens did when drafting Crosby and then making a final the next year?

See thats the thing with the tanking. You can never end it because the only improvement is a cup. If you don't win the cup then you might as well keep tanking.

Again look at Jersey. They did everything right. 2 1st OVA, Jack Hughes the next best C. Traded picks to get PK and Gusev and now they stink because they rest of their D suck and they have no goaltending. You can't just say lose and then you will win it doesn't work like that, not in today's NHL.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying the habs are perfect, I am saying I would rather roll with the talent we have and add to it. If we have another season of incompetence like 2 years ago then move out some pieces and reset. But when your team is in the thick of things looking to make the playoffs I don't support throwing away the season on the hopes that your get a lucky bounce of a lottery ball and then pray to god you don't draft a Nico or Yakupov.

I wold rather the habs make the playoffs and play a round or two and build to get better and then next year Caufield steps in and so does Romanov and somehow we add a UFA or two and the talent increases on the team. And don't make it about MB because I am not endorising him. Like I said good managers don't tank, its not possible. They are good for a reason and by osmosis their teams will get better not worse. If your team is losing and stuck in futility its not some grand stratgey its because your manager can't put together enough talent across the org.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Not Struble but Norlinder who may be even better.

MB has made a lot of very good trades. This one was the best I think.

Norlinder was our 2019 3rd round pick. I believe we drafted Struble with the 2nd that we got from Vegas.

 

[azcanuck]

I think those are the four we're banking on the hardest, next group belongs to Poehling, Brook, Norlinder. Not sure if Suzuki is a prospect anymore.

Basically a top line winger, center, LHD and goalie as the top 4 prospects.

Suzuki not a prospect but we really dont know what his ceiling is.

I said over the summer we have a "very good" player here. Not elite but in the ROR catagory.

Poehling will never be elite. I see him as a third line guy with a second line ceiling.

Caufield, romanov, KK and Primeau. Very excited about those 4.

 

[azcanuck]

Norlinder was our 2019 3rd round pick. I believe we drafted Struble with the 2nd that we got from Vegas.

Thank you. I cant believe Vegas gave up a first , second and third for a couple of months of Tatar and hardly used him. WOW.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Clearly you're not paying attention.

We have some good prospects both on the team and coming up.

The trades and draft picks the last couple of years have been superb.

And to be fair MB has even more picks coming up. Remember we got a second this year from chicago (and a third I believe the following year) for Shaw. That will be a high second.

the trades, as good as you think they are, Have the Habs battling for a PO spot till the end, just like before those trades...

 

[admiralcadillac]

the trades, as good as you think they are, Have the Habs battling for a PO spot till the end, just like before those trades...

While collecting picks and prospects

 

[HBDay]

Montreal already have a very good player in Tuna, so why you want to bring another one instead of him. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... and Tatar has played pretty well for Canadiens since he came. Furthermore, he has most points and contract for next season. I am convinced that he is happy and will sign for couple more seasons. Together with Gallagher and Danault work perfectly. So why trade him? It does not make any sense.

Good player with hands who scores, why not keep him is exactly true. I under stand asset management, but there is also keeping assets. Tanking is not a scientific formula proven to work.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Thank you. I cant believe Vegas gave up a first , second and third for a couple of months of Tatar and hardly used him. WOW.

Then traded him with another first (Suzuki) and a second for Pacioretty.

Trade ended up being;

2018 1st (Joe Veleno)
2019 2nd (Robert Mastrosimone)
2021 3rd
Nick Suzuki
2019 2nd (Samuel Fagemo)
500k retained salary for 2017,18,19 seasons

For :
3 months of Tomas Tatar (healthy scratched for 12 of 20 VGK playoff games)
5 years of Max Pacioretty (year one at 4.05M cap hit, years 2-5 @ 7.0m cap hit.

GMGM, GM of the year.

 

[ECWHSWI]

While collecting picks and prospects

ELITE prospects you mean ??

who still need time adapting in the NHL
who had to wait till they're 20 to make it
who have yet to play a single NHL game


but elite prospects... who will have us contending in 2 or 3 years ??

 

[LaP]

Good player with hands who scores, why not keep him is exactly true. I under stand asset management, but there is also keeping assets. Tanking is not a scientific formula proven to work.

Then trade someone else. Drouin. Domi. Danault. Gallagher. The point is there's no point keeping a top 6 player unhappy on a 3rd line and this is where we are going in the upcoming 3 years unless we plan to keep Suzuki and JK on a 3rd line forever. Asset management is exactly what it is trading one guy we wont need for a chance to get a guy we actually will need. This is a good draft we should still stack picks we are not there yet.

 

[azcanuck]

Then trade someone else. Drouin. Domi. Danault. Gallagher. The point is there's no point keeping a top 6 player unhappy on a 3rd line and this is where we are going in the upcoming 3 years unless we plan to keep Suzuki and JK on a 3rd line forever. Asset management is exactly what it is trading one guy we wont need for a chance to get a guy we actually will need. This is a good draft we should still stack picks we are not there yet.

How many picks meet your standard? This is what we got.

1st round pick - Montréal

2nd round pick - Montréal

2nd round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)

3rd round pick - Montréal

4th round pick - Montréal

4th round pick - Montréal (from Winnipeg - Armia trade)

4th round pick - Montréal (from Anaheim - Deslauriers trade)

4th round pick - Montréal (from San Jose - traded for 2019 4th round pick #108)

5th round pick - Montréal

5th round pick - Montréal (from Florida - traded for 2019 5th round pick #136)

6th round pick - Montréal

7th round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)

7th round pick - Philadelphia (from Montréal - traded for 2019 7th round pick #201)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[admiralcadillac]

ELITE prospects you mean ??

who still need time adapting in the NHL
who had to wait till they're 20 to make it
who have yet to play a single NHL game


but elite prospects... who will have us contending in 2 or 3 years ??

It's almost as if your expectations are Crosby or bust

 

[azcanuck]

Odd of getting a good player that plays in the NHL?
80% in first round
44% in second round
30 % in third round
20 % in fourth round.

 

[26Mats]

Odd of getting a good player that plays in the NHL?
80% in first round
44% in second round
30 % in third round
20 % in fourth round.

Define "good player" that plays in the NHL. Do you mean top 6 forward, top 4 D, or #1 goalie.

And even if these odds are correct, they include lottery picks - which have much higher percentages than non-lottery picks, and which we ain't getting for Tatar.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Thank you. I cant believe Vegas gave up a first , second and third for a couple of months of Tatar and hardly used him. WOW.

It’s mind boggling.. he’s a high quality player.

 

[CauZuki]

It’s mind boggling.. he’s a high quality player.

They were a "Frankenstein's monster team" riding ridiculous chemistry all year. I kind of understand why the coach doesn't want to mess with his lineup especially when it doesn't click right away (with Tatar) and playoffs are a few weeks away. GM acquires the piece because his team is having success and all of a sudden their picks next year aren't lottery eligible. The gamble made sense and him not fitting in immediately also can be explained by the above mentioned scenario. Their loss is our gain and I agree that Tatar seems to fit with the current team culture.