Player Discussion Tomas Tatar

[scrubadam]

Odd of getting a good player that plays in the NHL?
80% in first round
44% in second round
30 % in third round
20 % in fourth round.

Those are regular odds, you need to redo them for Timmins who strikes out more in the 1st round. I take my chances with TT in the 2nd and above rounds over top picks LOL.

 

[azcanuck]

Define "good player" that plays in the NHL. Do you mean top 6 forward, top 4 D, or #1 goalie.

And even if these odds are correct, they include lottery picks - which have much higher percentages than non-lottery picks, and which we ain't getting for Tatar.

That's an "oops" didnt mean to put good in there. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[azcanuck]

It’s mind boggling.. he’s a high quality player.

I remember that run they had. I watched a lot of their games living out here in the desert.

Tatar simply didnt fit the model of play they had. He is kinda soft and not a Gallant type guy. It could be argued he was hardly given a chance.

 

[CauZuki]

I remember that run they had. I watched a lot of their games living out here in the desert.

Tatar simply didnt fit the model of play they had. He is kinda soft and not a Gallant type guy. It could be argued he was hardly given a chance.

He was absolutely not given a chance, not surprising in pro sports , Hockey especially...

 

[HBDay]

Then trade someone else. Drouin. Domi. Danault. Gallagher. The point is there's no point keeping a top 6 player unhappy on a 3rd line and this is where we are going in the upcoming 3 years unless we plan to keep Suzuki and JK on a 3rd line forever. Asset management is exactly what it is trading one guy we wont need for a chance to get a guy we actually will need. This is a good draft we should still stack picks we are not there yet.

I think if we can roll three good lines there is nothing wrong with that, I get you mean trade a top six so we can progress our young guns into that roll, but it's not like we have cap issues needing us to do this, I'd rather load up our top 9 while we can rather than trade good players to replace them with good players and then have scrubs fill up our bottom six. And I know we have a few scrubs floating around all over our line up, so why not just scratch or drop those guys rather than trading good players.

 

[JianYang]

Anybody remember vaclav prospal? Tatar reminds me alot of him.

 

[JianYang]

It’s mind boggling.. he’s a high quality player.

Tatar said it himself, and I believe it. He wasn't a fit on the club. He walked into a group that had something special going on without him, and he just couldn't find his niche within it. I think he kind of felt like an outsider there.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Tatar said it himself, and I believe it. He wasn't a fit on the club. He walked into a group that had something special going on without him, and he just couldn't find his niche within it. I think he kind of felt like an outsider there.

Either way, horrible asset management by Vegas.

 

[JianYang]

Either way, horrible asset management by Vegas.

Their GM has a history of being very aggressive when he's in buyer mode. If I'm a seller, I would be salivating at the thought of GMGM being interested, especially consindering the stockpile of talent in his organization.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It's almost as if your expectations are Crosby or bust

ELITE prospects apparently, ELITE... The expectations are based on the idea they're ELITE prospects you know

 

[azcanuck]

Anybody remember vaclav prospal? Tatar reminds me alot of him.

I do but I'm going to say Tatar is better. Similar style though.

 

[azcanuck]

I think if we can roll three good lines there is nothing wrong with that, I get you mean trade a top six so we can progress our young guns into that roll, but it's not like we have cap issues needing us to do this, I'd rather load up our top 9 while we can rather than trade good players to replace them with good players and then have scrubs fill up our bottom six. And I know we have a few scrubs floating around all over our line up, so why not just scratch or drop those guys rather than trading good players.

Exactly. Just keep adding good players, maybe none of them become "Elite" but good enough to win a cup.

New Jersey had an elite player named Hall and they were crap.
Chicago has Toews, Kane and Duncan Keith. They are crap.
LA has Kopitar and Doughty. Crap.
Edmonton with the best player in the world in McJesus and Draisaitl. Just missed the playoffs two years in a row.
Too many fans are hung up on "elite". Just build a roster full of very good players.

 

[knuck]

He was absolutely not given a chance, not surprising in pro sports , Hockey especially...

I just watched that episode 2 hours ago lol

 

[26Mats]

Exactly. Just keep adding good players, maybe none of them become "Elite" but good enough to win a cup.

New Jersey had an elite player named Hall and they were crap.
Chicago has Toews, Kane and Duncan Keith. They are crap.
LA has Kopitar and Doughty. Crap.
Edmonton with the best player in the world in McJesus and Draisaitl. Just missed the playoffs two years in a row.
Too many fans are hung up on "elite". Just build a roster full of very good players.

so true.

St. Louis, Boston, and New Jersey won without that elite offensive center/forward.

 

[mitchmagic]

so true.

St. Louis, Boston, and New Jersey won without that elite offensive center/forward.

Lol what?

Tarasenko / O'Reilly

Bergeron / Marchand

 

[Roadhouse]

Exactly. Just keep adding good players, maybe none of them become "Elite" but good enough to win a cup.

New Jersey had an elite player named Hall and they were crap.
Chicago has Toews, Kane and Duncan Keith. They are crap.
LA has Kopitar and Doughty. Crap.
Edmonton with the best player in the world in McJesus and Draisaitl. Just missed the playoffs two years in a row.
Too many fans are hung up on "elite". Just build a roster full of very good players.

You're listing teams that have Cups (plural) under their belts with those guys, I mean CHI & LAK really???

NJD won the Cup with several elite players - you could argue that if the Habs' timing was similar to the Devils back then, we could model the Brodeur/Stevens idea around Price/Weber and surrounding cast. But that's not the case, our timing is off by a LOT.

Edmonton? Haha gimme a break, just exactly how hard is it to acquire those two pieces??? We won't get similar talent in the top 6, not even close. Maybe in 15-20 years when it's a different landscape in the NHL, and when Bergevin is gone.

St. Louis, Boston, and New Jersey won without that elite offensive center/forward.

You were corrected on STL & BOS (Bergeron not elite??? Tarasenko?! Dude!!). See above for NJD, you can't apply this to our as-is roster.

 

[26Mats]

Lol what?

Tarasenko / O'Reilly

Bergeron / Marchand

lol,

Tarasenko was 58th in the NHL in points the year the Blues won the cup with 68 points, and tied with Brendan Gallagher for 30th in goals with 33.

O'Reilly was tied for 31st with 77 points, behind Elias Lindholm.

Bergeron had 57 points the year the Bruins won the cup, 2011. He was tied for 54th in the league in points - tied with Plekanec, Kulemin, RJ Umberger, Tuomo Ruutu and Ray whitney - and behind players like Ryan Clowe, Clarke MacCarther, and Grabovski. He had almost half as many points as league leader Daniel Sedin with 104 pionts. Hardly an elite offensive season.

Marchand was even lower with 21 goals and 41 points.


The Bruins and Blues were built on depth of high quality players, and didn't have an elite offensive player like other cup winners Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA, Detroit, and Washington.

The lesson is, next time you try to get all arrogant at least have some basic understanding of the facts. LMAO.

You were corrected on STL & BOS (Bergeron not elite??? Tarasenko?! Dude!!). See above for NJD, you can't apply this to our as-is roster.

I said elite offensive players. Those teams didn't have elite offensive players the year they won the cup.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Exactly. Just keep adding good players, maybe none of them become "Elite" but good enough to win a cup.

New Jersey had an elite player named Hall and they were crap.
Chicago has Toews, Kane and Duncan Keith. They are crap.
LA has Kopitar and Doughty. Crap.
Edmonton with the best player in the world in McJesus and Draisaitl. Just missed the playoffs two years in a row.
Too many fans are hung up on "elite". Just build a roster full of very good players.

Chicago has THREE Cups and L.A has TWO cups with the guys you named...

they should have went with good players only...

 

[ECWHSWI]

so true.

St. Louis, Boston, and New Jersey won without that elite offensive center/forward.

3 teams in the last 20 years,aint that amazing...

 

[26Mats]

3 teams in the last 20 years,aint that amazing...

Plus our team in 93 ( and 86), so that's 4 in the last 26 years.

Hey, I don't see us getting a McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, or Patrick Kane. But we're not up against insurmountable odds if we don't.
It's been done before. We've done it before. That's how we won our last two cups.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Lol what?

Tarasenko / O'Reilly

Bergeron / Marchand

The year Boston won the Cup, Krejci led the team with 62 points and Marchand had not broken out yet and had 41 points. Bergeron had 57 points..

These are indeed good players to have, but they were not #1/2 overalls or super-elite. The guy you called elite, Bergeron, had a ppg that year that was 71st in the league, EIGHTEEN RUNGS below Max Domi last year. Even Krejci was 43rd and almost every team had a "more elite" scorer than Krejci.

In LA, Anze Kopitar only had 70 and 76 points during their two Cup years. Terrific player to have but a notch below the top guns (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, etc.)

Kopitar was 22nd in the league in ppg in 2012 and FOURTEEN teams had one or even two players better than him offensively. My, oh my, how could a team be a contender when 14 teams had at least one, or more, players who were better at scoring points than its leader??

In 2014, Kopitar was 26th in ppg and 16 teams had a higher scorer, or two, or three, ahead of him!

Now, for Saint Louis. Ryan O'Reilly was 43rd in ppg last year. Tarasenko was 51st. Almost every team, 24 to be exact, had at least one player, if not two or three, ahead of O'Reilly.

What is happening is that once a team wins the Cup, we anoint their best players as "elite" with hindsight, which is fine, but then the call is to tank to get "super-elite" players like Crosby and Ovie, and the odds of THAT are not so good. The Habs have drafted TWICE at #3 since 2012 and neither player was an immediate superstar like Crosby or Ovechkin.

It is more important to assemble a full roster of strong players than it is to get a top, top elite scorer on your team.

 

[azcanuck]

Plus our team in 93 ( and 86), so that's 4 in the last 26 years.

Hey, I don't see us getting a McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, or Patrick Kane. But we're not up against insurmountable odds if we don't.
It's been done before. We've done it before. That's how we won our last two cups.

The point is it can be done. Get enough good players and don't depend on one or two "elites" .
How much has that signing of Matt Duchene helped Nashville?

 

[NobleSix]

Didn't realize he's up to 35 points in 39 games. Pretty impressive. Nice to see last year wasn't just a one year redemption story, and that he's still a very good player.

Crazy to think that he was considered a 'cap dump' back when he was acquired. Nice story for him.

 

[JianYang]

I remember that run they had. I watched a lot of their games living out here in the desert.

Tatar simply didnt fit the model of play they had. He is kinda soft and not a Gallant type guy. It could be argued he was hardly given a chance.

I think tatar is actually pretty competitive, and he goes to the greasy areas, like the rest of his line.

I wouldn't call him soft. He reminds me alot of vinny prospal actually.

 

[LaP]

The point is it can be done. Get enough good players and don't depend on one or two "elites" .
How much has that signing of Matt Duchene helped Nashville?

Man that myth that the team in 93 was bad must stop.

Roy was one of the best goalie in the history of the league. Savard had slowed down but he was just 31 and he's a HOFer. He was still a very solid 2nd line center. Bellows is as close to the HOF as one can be. Damphousse is very close to the HOF too. Carbo is in the HOF. LeClair was not in his prime yet but man we have nothing that even remotely compare to LeClair and with a longer career he would probably be close to the HOF. We had three HOFers with a bunch of guys very close to be HOFers if this is not elite players than what is? Outside of Weber and maybe Price none of the guys we have are remotely close to the HOF status.