Player Discussion Tomas Tatar

[Habs Icing]

I thought Pacioretty had one hell of a game last night. If he would have play like this every game in the last 3 seasons, maybe my opinion would be different on him.

Agreed. But he will go back to sleep now.

 

[Habs Icing]

Pre-Chara hit

Actually, I've been thinking about this and I don't think it was the Chara hit. I think ever since he was suspended for the hit on Letang he became the sleepwalker he is now.

 

[Hfbsux]

Agreed. But he will go back to sleep now.

Inevitable!

 

[26Mats]

Pre-Chara hit

But that hit occurred before he went on to score 3o+ goals the next 5 non lockout seasons and basically be on pace for 30 during the lockout shortened season.

I don't know what happened to him and Price starting last year and continuing into this year. They've fallen off the same cliff.

 

[26Mats]

For sure, I'm thinking the exact same. I was glad with Suzuki alone!

When it was clear we were trading Max, all I wanted was a Suzuki level prospect or a good lottery pick to try to get one.

I was among those ready to trade him to Edmonton for their #10 overall pick + Lucic's contract. I didn't think, with his decline, we could do better. Thank god for George "I trade my young prospects for washed up vets" McPhee.

Getting Suzuki plus Tatar and a 2nd is highway robbery. Don't know if Mcphee considered Tatar a cap dump, but that would also be a mistake, given his consistent production in the past.

 

[BaseballCoach]

For sure, I'm thinking the exact same. I was glad with Suzuki alone!

Do you see Tatar as having a future with us?

 

[Habs Icing]

But that hit occurred before he went on to score 3o+ goals the next 5 non lockout seasons and basically be on pace for 30 during the lockout shortened season.

I don't know what happened to him and Price starting last year and continuing into this year. They've fallen off the same cliff.

You guys keep going to his goals. It's not his goal scoring. It's his style of play. He is uninvolved for ost of his time on the ice. Now if he scored like Ovechkin you can put up with that crap but then again you can not say Ovechkin played most of his career uninvolved. So 30-35 goals a year were not excuses for Patches style of play.

 

[BaseballCoach]

When it was clear we were trading Max, all I wanted was a Suzuki level prospect or a good lottery pick to try to get one.

I was among those ready to trade him to Edmonton for their #10 overall pick + Lucic's contract. I didn't think, with his decline, we could do better. Thank god for George "I trade my young prospects for washed up vets" McPhee.

Getting Suzuki plus Tatar and a 2nd is highway robbery. Don't know if Mcphee considered Tatar a cap dump, but that would also be a mistake, given his consistent production in the past.

There are folks right here still stubbornly clinging to the "Tatar should be dumped" position.

They start by saying they think he should be moved without providing any qualification. Then, when it is pointed out he is helping the team and is not yet 28 and has a reasonable cap hit, it changes to "of course for a a good return". Then, when you show them how poor are the odds of a second round pick being a good return, they revert to "we need to take a chance at big talent, whatever we've done before hasn't worked", meaning pray for a one in 100 shot.

I would consider anyone for a trade, but Tatar should bring not far from what Detroit got for him, or it's not worth it.

 

[26Mats]

You guys keep going to his goals. It's not his goal scoring. It's his style of play. He is uninvolved for ost of his time on the ice. Now if he scored like Ovechkin you can put up with that crap but then again you can not say Ovechkin played most of his career uninvolved. So 30-35 goals a year were not excuses for Patches style of play.

I'll happily take the old patch that scored 30-39 goals like money in the bank. He wasn't the same floater we saw last year. He was explosive, very responsible defensively and an excellent PKer with his reach to block off lanes and offensive threat.

 

[26Mats]

There are folks right here still stubbornly clinging to the "Tatar should be dumped" position.

They start by saying they think he should be moved without providing any qualification. Then, when it is pointed out he is helping the team and is not yet 28 and has a reasonable cap hit, it changes to "of course for a a good return". Then, when you show them how poor are the odds of a second round pick being a good return, they revert to "we need to take a chance at big talent, whatever we've done before hasn't worked", meaning pray for a one in 100 shot.

I would consider anyone for a trade, but Tatar should bring not far from what Detroit got for him, or it's not worth it.

Yeah even a late 1st is a long shot to bring in top talent....

I still can't believe we didn't jump in and beat the Sabers' offer of a 2nd and 4th for 26 year old, 37 goal scorer Skinner. He would have fit in perfectly on this team and given us that extra goal and extra offensive push when we need it.

As we see with Tatar, when their value is low is the time to buy. So many good wingers we passed on were on the market without having to give up major assets (Skinner, Perron, Tatar, Duclair, Sheary, Armia). Plus I still think there was a way to get Domi without giving up Galchenyuk. I was ready to sacrifice Poehling.

 

[yianik]

I'll happily take the old patch that scored 30-39 goals like money in the bank. He wasn't the same floater we saw last year. He was explosive, very responsible defensively and an excellent PKer with his reach to block off lanes and offensive threat.

I think he pretty much was the same guy. I mean as a tough season wore on him it showed, but without the PMDs to hit him on the stretch pass ( see Markov, PK etc ) and linemates to create space for him ( see Rads ), what you saw is what you got.

Now I think mentally he has been hit pretty hard and likely needs a couple of goals to get him on track. Someone mentioned him beating Alzber last night and instead of going for the deke he shot it from the circle. This stinks of a lack on confidence as the deke is the higher percentage play of a player of his skill.

 

[Hfbsux]

Do you see Tatar as having a future with us?

I could see us keeping him for the lenght of his contract if we are contending as soon as this year or next. I could also see us trading him at the deadline if we're not in playoff contention. He's a good 2nd-3rd liner winger with a good contract. Some team might be willing to give a lot for his service. Just like how McPhee gave a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder for him.

 

[Rockomax]

Actually, I've been thinking about this and I don't think it was the Chara hit. I think ever since he was suspended for the hit on Letang he became the sleepwalker he is now.

Agreed, I've been saying the same for a long time. That's when I saw him change drastically.

 

[26Mats]

I think he pretty much was the same guy. I mean as a tough season wore on him it showed, but without the PMDs to hit him on the stretch pass ( see Markov, PK etc ) and linemates to create space for him ( see Rads ), what you saw is what you got.

Now I think mentally he has been hit pretty hard and likely needs a couple of goals to get him on track. Someone mentioned him beating Alzber last night and instead of going for the deke he shot it from the circle. This stinks of a lack on confidence as the deke is the higher percentage play of a player of his skill.

That could be. In fact, even though he sucked last year, when we made a little push led by playing the young guys and Antti-tank, it really died when Paciroetty got injured. We were a much better team with him the lineup and he formed a consistent offensive threat with Danault and Hudon.

So, not only would he have scored 30 last year with Radulov, but he might have also scored 30 this year with our current team. While Tatar is playing with Danault and Gallagher, Pacioretty didn't get to play with them for a single shift last year. I have no idea what Julien was thinking keeping Gallagher with Pleks and away from Pacioretty for the entire season, it was maddening.

I'm not buying the change in attitude is the reason we're better this year. The number one reason is we have a real center line. Not Drouin as the number 1, washed up Plekanec as the number 3, and Byron Froese as the number 4. Plus, we finally put Alzner in the stands and are playing the young guys from the get go. Plus, the new style of playing faster.

 

[Frank Drebin]

When it was clear we were trading Max, all I wanted was a Suzuki level prospect or a good lottery pick to try to get one.

I was among those ready to trade him to Edmonton for their #10 overall pick + Lucic's contract. I didn't think, with his decline, we could do better. Thank god for George "I trade my young prospects for washed up vets" McPhee.

Getting Suzuki plus Tatar and a 2nd is highway robbery. Don't know if Mcphee considered Tatar a cap dump, but that would also be a mistake, given his consistent production in the past.

It's just amazing the price he paid to acquire Tatar only to dump him 17 games later

 

[Hfbsux]

I still can't believe we didn't jump in and beat the Sabres' offer of a 2nd and 4th for 26 year old, 37 goal scorer Skinner. He would have fit in perfectly on this team and given us that extra goal and extra offensive push when we need it.

The reason why Carolina did not get a great return is because Skinner gave them a really short list of team he'd accept to be traded to. Montreal was probably not on the list..

 

[pl4tinum]

Not sure why anyone would want to get rid of Tatar at this point. Former 30 goal scorer, in his prime, on a team that needs scoring and creativity, two things that he brings every game. This isn't Tomas Vanek guys.

 

[yianik]

That could be. In fact, even though he sucked last year, when we made a little push led by playing the young guys and Antti-tank, it really died when Paciroetty got injured. We were a much better team with him the lineup and he formed a consistent offensive threat with Danault and Hudon.

So, not only would he have scored 30 last year with Radulov, but he might have also scored 30 this year with our current team. While Tatar is playing with Danault and Gallagher, Pacioretty didn't get to play with them for a single shift last year. I have no idea what Julien was thinking keeping Gallagher with Pleks and away from Pacioretty for the entire season, it was maddening.

I'm not buying the change in attitude is the reason we're better this year. The number one reason is we have a real center line. Not Drouin as the number 1, washed up Plekanec as the number 3, and Byron Froese as the number 4. Plus, we finally put Alzner in the stands and are playing the young guys from the get go. Plus, the new style of playing faster.

Yes, intangibles factor in , but tangibles like actually having a guy who plays like a top 6C playing there is more important. Talent. You need talent.

 

[TheMule93]

glad to see he is doing good with you guys. Admittedly im not a huge fan of tatar (he over-stickedhandled a lot on our team, leading to a lot of turnvoers) but still nice to see him find his game after his disastrous stint with vegas

 

[26Mats]

It's just amazing the price he paid to acquire Tatar only to dump him 17 games later

He paid a huge price to get Pacioretty, but let Perron, who's the same age and who signed for a very reasonable cap hit, walk for nothing...

 

[Frank Drebin]

He paid a huge price to get Pacioretty, but let Perron, who's the same age and who signed for a very reasonable cap hit, walk for nothing...

GM of the year they said, misunderstood genius they said....

 

[26Mats]

Not sure why anyone would want to get rid of Tatar at this point. Former 30 goal scorer, in his prime, on a team that needs scoring and creativity, two things that he brings every game. This isn't Tomas Vanek guys.

off topic, but I would have loved to have kept Vanek at a low cap hit. But he wanted to go back to Minnesota and was in high enough demand to get a pretty big contract. Vanek had 24 goals and 56 points last year, while turning 34 years old.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

Pacioretty was a force early in his career ie power forward.
After Character hit he needed to change his style to prolong his career.
He became a perimeter shooter.

 

[Deebs]

Having Sauce for another 2 years at $4.8M is solid. No way we should move him unless the return is completely off the charts.

 

[Runner77]

Not sure why anyone would want to get rid of Tatar at this point. Former 30 goal scorer, in his prime, on a team that needs scoring and creativity, two things that he brings every game. This isn't Tomas Vanek guys.

Not to quibble, but he came as close as you could to 30 goals, 4 years ago when he posted 29 in 82 games. His next best season was 25 goals in 2016-17.

These are the only seasons where he scored 25 or more.

Great start to this season. Hoping it continues.