Player Discussion Tomas Tatar

[Runner77]

Tatar spoof central.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

The gift of Craig Rivet keeps giving

hahaha. I've been saying that exact quote word for word on another board. it sure does.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Trashing Pacioretty is unnecessary. So is the laughable alchemy of adding his playoff scoring from two years ago to prorated stats from last year and this year and two different teams lmao. Nonsense.

The "alchemy", lol. Always funny to see to what extent you'll go to disagree with me, even on the most verifiable statistical facts. I wonder how far I could push the concept and have you disagree with me because of your hurt feelings.

Fact: Pacioretty's PPG production has slowed down over the last three seasons. And that's not "trashing Pacioretty" as you put it. It's just actually not living in a fantasy world but in reality. And you don't need to "hate" Pacioretty to be glad with this trade. I wish nothing but the best for Pacioretty, who was extremely serviceable over the years but it was time for the Habs to move on and this trade was a huge win by Bergevin.

 

[BLONG7]

Tatar has been a huge surprise, no expectations, had slumped with the Wings, and then Vegas, after he got his $$$ and looked to be done.

Gets traded to the Habs, and bang!! Finds his game. So happy for him!!

Love the fans, with the Tatah!! Tatah!!

 

[Habs Icing]

The "alchemy", lol. Always funny to see to what extent you'll go to disagree with me, even on the most verifiable statistical facts. I wonder how far I could push the concept and have you disagree with me because of your hurt feelings.

Fact: Pacioretty's PPG production has slowed down over the last three seasons. And that's not "trashing Pacioretty" as you put it. It's just actually not living in a fantasy world but in reality. And you don't need to "hate" Pacioretty to be glad with this trade. I wish nothing but the best for Pacioretty, who was extremely serviceable over the years but it was time for the Habs to move on and this trade was a huge win by Bergevin.

Actually, allow me to push the concept. I never liked Patches as a player. I found him to be an uninvolved player. Last night was an outlier for him. If he played his whole career like he did last night I would have had a different opinion of him. But Pacioretty tends to sleep walk through games or should I say sleep skate.

Even if Patches was having a career season and Tatar was having one of his typical point producing years, I prefer a Tatar over a Pacioretty. Tatar is a player who is engaged in the game. He doesn't play hockey like he is a spectator. Patches does.

Having said all that, I wish him luck. But I'm ecstatic he's gone. I wrote too many posts complaining about this sort of player to feel any other way.

 

[DAChampion]

Actually, allow me to push the concept. I never liked Patches as a player. I found him to be an uninvolved player. Last night was an outlier for him. If he played his whole career like he did last night I would have had a different opinion of him. But Pacioretty tends to sleep walk through games or should I say sleep skate.

Even if Patches was having a career season and Tatar was having one of his typical point producing years, I prefer a Tatar over a Pacioretty. Tatar is a player who is engaged in the game. He doesn't play hockey like he is a spectator. Patches does.

Having said all that, I wish him luck. But I'm ecstatic he's gone. I wrote too many posts complaining about this sort of player to feel any other way.

If Pacioretty was getting 30 goals and 65 points by sleepwalking, then he could have competed for the Art Ross had he put in a consistent effort.

Ergo, he wasn't sleep walking.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I lost all respect after what happened with Subban. Embarrassing to call him a captain.

Dislike. Speculation without foundation.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Actually, allow me to push the concept. I never liked Patches as a player. I found him to be an uninvolved player. Last night was an outlier for him. If he played his whole career like he did last night I would have had a different opinion of him. But Pacioretty tends to sleep walk through games or should I say sleep skate.

Even if Patches was having a career season and Tatar was having one of his typical point producing years, I prefer a Tatar over a Pacioretty. Tatar is a player who is engaged in the game. He doesn't play hockey like he is a spectator. Patches does.

Having said all that, I wish him luck. But I'm ecstatic he's gone. I wrote too many posts complaining about this sort of player to feel any other way.

IF the bolded was a trait of Tatar not just this year but pretty much his whole career, chances are he's still playing in Vegas as he wouldnt be healthy scratched in PO games...

this is (same for Domi) the reason I'm cautious, guys like Tatar known to be inconsistent in both numbers and effort, suddenly becomes PPG and are labeled as some type of "warrior"... can the GM be lucky enough that it would happen twice (he and Domi) in the same summer ? twice that he grab players who land in Trudeau airport transformed ? I mean...

 

[BaseballCoach]

He had it right about both guys. Neither he nor Subban should have been captains. Shame the whole ordeal led to 76 being traded but that's another story for another day

In retrospect, the Habs made a mistake allowing either of these guys to be captain. After Gionta left, they should have had a vote between Markov and Plekanec, and allowed the two younger guys whose emotions sometimes get the best of them to be in the less pressure-filled position of alternate captains. Heck, look how well Subban is doing in Nashville not even being a regular 'A'!

 

[Frank Drebin]

IF the bolded was a trait of Tatar not just this year but pretty much his whole career, chances are he's still playing in Vegas as he wouldnt be healthy scratched in PO games...

this is (same for Domi) the reason I'm cautious, guys like Tatar known to be inconsistent in both numbers and effort, suddenly becomes PPG and are labeled as some type of "warrior"... can the GM be lucky enough that it would happen twice (he and Domi) in the same summer ? twice that he grab players who land in Trudeau airport transformed ? I mean...

I'm cautious to call tatar a first line player too,I fully expect him to go ice cold for 20 or so games this year... But when you think about the guy he was traded for and how streaky he was, you can't help but smile at this deal

 

[Frank Drebin]

In retrospect, the Habs made a mistake allowing either of these guys to be captain. After Gionta left, they should have had a vote between Markov and Plekanec, and allowed the two younger guys whose emotions sometimes get the best of them to be in the less pressure-filled position of alternate captains. Heck, look how well Subban is doing in Nashville not even being a regular 'A'!

I just get a feeling that the captaincy vote in 2015 was just such an awkward dividing experience for the team.

I've never really heard of anything similar in professional sports, usually the guys are all aware and self aware enough to know who the leader on the team is.

If there is something we could fault Markov on over his career (loved the guy) is that he didn't have the courage to wear the letter he deserved, and that responsibility was thrust on an underserving and inadequate player.

 

[BaseballCoach]

IF the bolded was a trait of Tatar not just this year but pretty much his whole career, chances are he's still playing in Vegas as he wouldnt be healthy scratched in PO games...

this is (same for Domi) the reason I'm cautious, guys like Tatar known to be inconsistent in both numbers and effort, suddenly becomes PPG and are labeled as some type of "warrior"... can the GM be lucky enough that it would happen twice (he and Domi) in the same summer ? twice that he grab players who land in Trudeau airport transformed ? I mean...

The Tatar I see every game is the same guy I saw 4 times per year against Detroit. He is a hustler, with above-average, but not elite, skill. Guys like that will go dry once in a while, because they don't have the accuracy of a Matthews or Stamkos or Ovechkin that can get them a point on half their off-nights.

I don't know what happened in Vegas for a short stretch, but his is not the only strange case of usage there. David Perron was one of the top scorers in the league, got scratched a few times in the playoffs, and is back to scoring again this year in a new city.

 

[Hfbsux]

If Pacioretty was getting 30 goals and 65 points by sleepwalking, then he could have competed for the Art Ross had he put in a consistent effort.

Ergo, he wasn't sleep walking.

He was.

 

[26Mats]

The Tatar I see every game is the same guy I saw 4 times per year against Detroit. He is a hustler, with above-average, but not elite, skill. Guys like that will go dry once in a while, because they don't have the accuracy of a Matthews or Stamkos or Ovechkin that can get them a point on half-their off-nights.

I don't know what happened in Vegas for a short stretch, but his is not the only strange case of usage there. David Perron was one of the top scorers in the league, got scratched a few times in the playoffs, and is back to scoring again this year in a new city.

I wanted us to snag Perron this summer. He was available for a cheap and short cap hit. Would look good now with Drouin and Domi.

 

[Habs Icing]

IF the bolded was a trait of Tatar not just this year but pretty much his whole career, chances are he's still playing in Vegas as he wouldnt be healthy scratched in PO games...

this is (same for Domi) the reason I'm cautious, guys like Tatar known to be inconsistent in both numbers and effort, suddenly becomes PPG and are labeled as some type of "warrior"... can the GM be lucky enough that it would happen twice (he and Domi) in the same summer ? twice that he grab players who land in Trudeau airport transformed ? I mean...

Firstly, Tatar had a bad stretch in Vegas. He was there 28 games. You wanna be cautious and not jump to conclusions about his play yet you are ready to condemn his career based on his stretch in Vegas. I see a little inconsistency here.

Secondly, he played practically all of his NHL career in Detroit. Did you ever notice his play with the Wings? Or are you just looking at his stats in Vegas and assuming he was the same sort of player in Detroit.

Thirdly, this is another player that caught my eye with the Junior Slovakian team. The way he is playing now with the Habs is the way he played with his national team and the Red Wings.

Fourthly, although points matter, with Tatar it's not the points. It's his involvement in the game. Up until he came to Mtl he was a 45 point player. Maybe at 27 he found another gear.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I just get a feeling that the captaincy vote in 2015 was just such an awkward dividing experience for the team.

I've never really heard of anything similar in professional sports, usually the guys are all aware and self aware enough to know who the leader on the team is.

If there is something we could fault Markov on over his career (loved the guy) is that he didn't have the courage to wear the letter he deserved, and that responsibility was thrust on an underserving and inadequate player.

Or, if you see that there is a leadership void, and you just made the Conference finals, you re-sign your Captain at a lower salary, and even if that salary is $1M too high two years later, it's worth it.

This is what you pay management for, to understand the team they are building.

 

[yianik]

It's not that Patches wasn't engaged, to me he was. He played a good defensive game and produced a lot of goals.

The goals he produced were off the rush and by finding the open spots on the ice during the cycle to unleash his dangerous shot. He was though, a perimeter player offensively.

Patches relied on teammates or opposition errors to create those open spots from which he could shoot. He is not a player to be aggressive in puck pursuit or to attack the net. When you play like this it gets harder to score post season.

Tatar aggressively pursues the puck and tries to create plays for his teammates. So offensively he is much more active than Patches.

I liked Patches for what he is, and a 30 plus goal scorer gives you a lot to like. While I think him disappearing post season has been exaggerated, the truth is, as I have said , that his kind of game does not translate as well into the postseason.

If Tatar can play his engaged game consistently and score 20 plus goals with 50 plus points then I prefer that game since I think it translates better post season. Also paying Tatar a lot less than the $9M in Quebec dollars we would have to pay Patches.

 

[26Mats]

He was.

He wasn't sleep walking.

Last night we saw a perfect example of the new, washed up Pacioretty versus the old Pacioretty. There was a play where the puck squirted out of the zone past Alzner. Because Alzner can't turn or skate quick enough to play in the new NHL, it left Pacioretty to go in alone. But instead of take it hard to the net for a breakaway he just shot it took a shot from inside the circle, but still on the outside.

It's a shame to watch a player that's a shadow of his former self.

 

[Runner77]

Or, if you see that there is a leadership void, and you just made the Conference finals, you re-sign your Captain at a lower salary, and even if that salary is $1M too high two years later, it's worth it.

We won't have a captaincy issue for the foreseeable future, with the likes of Gallagher signed long term and a possible captain-in-waiting when Weber retires or has moved on.

Also, the Pacioretty fiasco is most likely going to incite all future captain vacancies to be filled by Habs's management acting alone, as opposed to being determined by a players's vote.

 

[Hfbsux]

He wasn't sleep walking.

Last night we saw a perfect example of the new, washed up Pacioretty versus the old Pacioretty. There was a play where the puck squirted out of the zone past Alzner. Because Alzner can't turn or skate quick enough to play in the new NHL, it left Pacioretty to go in alone. But instead of take it hard to the net for a breakaway he just shot it took a shot from inside the circle, but still on the outside.

It's a shame to watch a player that's a shadow of his former self.

I thought Pacioretty had one hell of a game last night. If he would have play like this every game in the last 3 seasons, maybe my opinion would be different on him.

 

[26Mats]

I thought Pacioretty had one hell of a game last night. If he would have play like this every game in the last 3 seasons, maybe my opinion would be different on him.

I think this is how he used to play - except on that play I mentioned.

 

[Habs Icing]

He wasn't sleep walking.

Last night we saw a perfect example of the new, washed up Pacioretty versus the old Pacioretty. There was a play where the puck squirted out of the zone past Alzner. Because Alzner can't turn or skate quick enough to play in the new NHL, it left Pacioretty to go in alone. But instead of take it hard to the net for a breakaway he just shot it took a shot from inside the circle, but still on the outside.

It's a shame to watch a player that's a shadow of his former self.

I've watched bits and pieces of his games with Vegas. Last night was the best I've seen him play this year. So if you think he was a shadow of his former self last night, you should watch the games where he isn't motivated to show up his former team.

 

[Runner77]

I thought Pacioretty had one hell of a game last night. If he would have play like this every game in the last 3 seasons, maybe my opinion would be different on him.

I wouldn't count him out for another 30 goal season. He tends to score in bunches and has better linemates now. Let's see where he's at, at the end of the season.

Regardless, even if he scores 30+, it has zero impact on how much I like the trade for us. Love the pieces we've got and that's all that really matters.

 

[Hfbsux]

I think this is how he used to play - except on that play I mentioned.

Pre-Chara hit

 

[Hfbsux]

I wouldn't count him out for another 30 goal season. He tends to score in bunches and has better linemates now. Let's see where he's at, at the end of the season.

Regardless, even if he scores 30+, it has zero impact on how much I like the trade for us. Love the pieces we've got and that's all that really matters.

For sure, I'm thinking the exact same. I was glad with Suzuki alone!