Player Discussion Tomas Tatar (Part Two-na)

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Siiiiigh

You're facts are incorrect. I see why you're so confused.

Alzner's cap hit in the AHL is 3.5 million. If he is bought out in June 2021, his cap hit in 2021-2022 is 2.29 million instead of 3.5 million and his cap hit in 2022-2023 is 1.16 million instead of 0. So the total economy of buying him out is actually $41,000 i.e. absolutely nothing. We basically trasfer 1.1 million from 2021-2022 season to the following year.

...

I'd sign Hall. I just won't consider him until I hear from a reliable source that he wants to come here. Any scenarios of Hall coming here are just as much of a waste of time as penciling Erik Karlesson into D pairings and cap space, Matt Duchene, John Tavares, Dahlin, Lafreniere, etc...

No if you buy him out in June 2021, hehas a cap hit of 1,16 for the two following seasons. Go look at buyout calculators. It's 1.16 cap hit.

The buyout cost is 2,33 over two seasons.

So 3.5 in the AHL
1,16 as a buyout

Economy of 2,34

You'll say just about anything not to admit you were wrong.

Grow-up.

And about your last paragraph, no kidding captain obvious. We're just talking of possibilities. Don't need the tempering discourse from a cap alarmist.

 

[scrubadam]

Rather see KK play with quality wingers, veteran or not than plugs like Weal and Cousins.

Good point.

Can't wait for KK or Suzuki to be ready to take the top 6 C spot and then all the crying about how he plays with scrubs like Lucic that we just signed after being bought out LOL.

 

[26Mats]

No if you buy him out in June 2021, hehas a cap hit of 1,16 for the two following seasons. Go look at buyout calculators. It's 1.16 cap hit.

The buyout cost is 2,33 over two seasons.

So 3.5 in the AHL
1,16 as a buyout

Economy of 2,34

You'll say just about anything not to admit you were wrong.

Grow-up.

Where is your source?

Here's my source: Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Where is your source?

Here's my source: Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

View attachment 309261

Oh boy, that 1 mil is surely gonna hold us back.

 

[Milhouse40]

Right now there's a question that need to be answered (a few actually but one above everything else).
Where do we go from here at center.

If we want to go forward with Suzuki - Danault - Kotkaniemi at center, like it seems to be the case…..then we would have Domi-Drouin-Tatar on the left wing. Not going to pay big money to 3 left wingers and watch one of them losing value playing on the 3rd line.

Before fixing the case of Tatar, we need to figure out what to do with Domi.
If he a left winger? Will he produce the same on the wing?
What kind of deal he's looking for?

Once we answered that, then we can start figuring if it's worth it to keep, trade or extend Tatar.
If Domi stay at center, then we are very thin on the left wing in terms of offensive skills and there's not much in the pipe coming in the next few years….

 

[26Mats]

No if you buy him out in June 2021, hehas a cap hit of 1,16 for the two following seasons. Go look at buyout calculators. It's 1.16 cap hit.

The buyout cost is 2,33 over two seasons.

So 3.5 in the AHL
1,16 as a buyout

Economy of 2,34

You'll say just about anything not to admit you were wrong.

Grow-up.

And about your last paragraph, no kidding captain obvious. We're just talking of possibilities. Don't need the tempering discourse from a cap alarmist.

Where is your source?

Here's my source: Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

View attachment 309261

You're problem isn't so much that you don't know what you're talking about/have your facts straight. It's that you don't know that you don't what you're talking about, can't see other points of view, and run your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh boy, that 1 mil is surely gonna hold us back.

That's all we save in 2021-2022 by buying him out ~1.2 million... And it's just transferred to the cap the next year anyways...

 

[26Mats]

Right now there's a question that need to be answered (a few actually but one above everything else).
Where do we go from here at center.

If we want to go forward with Suzuki - Danault - Kotkaniemi at center, like it seems to be the case…..then we would have Domi-Drouin-Tatar on the left wing. Not going to pay big money to 3 left wingers and watch one of them losing value playing on the 3rd line.

Before fixing the case of Tatar, we need to figure out what to do with Domi.
If he a left winger? Will he produce the same on the wing?
What kind of deal he's looking for?

Once we answered that, then we can start figuring if it's worth it to keep, trade or extend Tatar.
If Domi stay at center, then we are very thin on the left wing in terms of offensive skills and there's not much in the pipe coming in the next few years….

This is valid. I look forward to seeing the team fully healthy and to see who lines up with who, who has the best chemistry with who, etc...

Also note, Kovalchuk is a LW.

And, Domi still might be a center in the short term. If 21 year old Poehling can play 12-13 minutes a night as the 4c (or 4th LW), why can't 20 and 21 year old KK? Would it be bad for their development if Poehling - KK - Lehkonen played 12-13 minutes a night as a 4th line in the short term?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You're problem isn't so much that you don't know what you're talking about/have your facts straight. It's that you don't know that you don't what you're talking about, can't see other points of view, and run your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.



That's all we save in 2021-2022 by buying him out ~1.2 million... And it's just transferred to the cap the next year anyways...

No. Actually it's you being an alarmist and you not being able to see how it's not an impediment on the cap.

The point still stands, with Tatar gone and the buyouts, it's 7,5 mil freed up. Signing Hall wouldn't put a dent, so your initial point of keeping cap space for the contract renewals is still invalid.

In the end it's about would we rather have Tatar at 7mil or Hall at 9-10. And that 2-3 mil difference shouldnt be a problem , contrarily to your initial assesment.

 

[scrubadam]

No. Actually it's you being an alarmist and you not being able to see how it's not an impediment on the cap.

The point still stands, with Tatar gone and the buyouts, it's 7,5 mil freed up. Signing Hall wouldn't put a dent, so your initial point of keeping cap space for the contract renewals is still invalid.

In the end it's about would we rather have Tatar at 7mil or Hall at 9-10. And that 2-3 mil difference shouldnt be a problem , contrarily to your initial assesment.

Taylor Hall is not coming here.

We went through this with JT and then Duchene. Hall will wind up in Boston or Nash or Colorado or something.

Question is would you rather have Tatar 7 Mill or Lucic or whoever else is bought out that the habs end up signing as UFA.

 

[Milhouse40]

This is valid. I look forward to seeing the team fully healthy and to see who lines up with who, who has the best chemistry with who, etc...

Also note, Kovalchuk is a LW.

And, Domi still might be a center in the short term. If 21 year old Poehling can play 12-13 minutes a night as the 4c (or 4th LW), why can't 20 and 21 year old KK? Would it be bad for their development if Poehling - KK - Lehkonen played 12-13 minutes a night as a 4th line in the short term?

Yes it would be bad.

We have to think about evolution, that's the point of building through the draft and include prospect in the future.
Now it's Domi's case….Tomorrow it might be Danault's case unless KK stays on the 3rd line forever and turn him into another Lars Eller.

What's good of having prospect if they can't pushed out our top 6 forward and top 4 D?
We won't get any better that way and all that drafting done would mean nothing

 

[26Mats]

Yes it would be bad.

We have to think about evolution, that's the point of building through the draft and include prospect in the future.
Now it's Domi's case….Tomorrow it might be Danault's case unless KK stays on the 3rd line forever and turn him into another Lars Eller.

What's good of having prospect if they can't pushed out our top 6 forward and top 4 D?
We won't get any better that way and all that drafting done would mean nothing

I definitely want KK to be a top 6 center. It doesn't mean he'll be ready this year or next. What's wrong with him playing 13 minutes a night until he is?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Taylor Hall is not coming here.

We went through this with JT and then Duchene. Hall will wind up in Boston or Nash or Colorado or something.

Question is would you rather have Tatar 7 Mill or Lucic or whoever else is bought out that the habs end up signing as UFA.

No **** Sherlock. I was responding to the possibility of signing him capwise.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I don't agree with getting extended hes not worth the 6.5m he will get. He's so unidimensional.

He's not a first liner also. They are young players that are gonna need money. Some time you gotta sell and not always buy.

 

[Milhouse40]

I definitely want KK to be a top 6 center. It doesn't mean he'll be ready this year or next. What's wrong with him playing 13 minutes a night until he is?

Cause he won't play 13:00 minutes a night with good wingers and good PP ice-time...it's a package.
You don't know what you have until you try it.

Danault his first year and half of his 2nd year, he was a plug.
A 4th line winger that wasn't producing more than any 4th liner would. Nothing special.

It took an injury to Desharnais and Galchenyuk to try him in the top 6 with better wingers and that's when they start thinking about that option as a possibility. But before that, he did absolutely nothing that showed that he could be contributing on a top 6, not even as a journeyman. Even in the AHL, he was very ordinary.

If you don't give some break to those kids, they won't show you more than what you're seeing now.

 

[HabsDood]

And the pièce de résistance in this: Jacob LeGuerrier.

Who's he?

 

[Notabaguette]

And the pièce de résistance in this: Jacob LeGuerrier.

We got a 2nd, Suzuki and Tatar and moved the 2nd that pick Fagemo for 3rd and 5th that turned into Norlinder and Leguerrier

 

[26Mats]

Cause he won't play 13:00 minutes a night with good wingers and good PP ice-time...it's a package.
You don't know what you have until you try it.

Danault his first year and half of his 2nd year, he was a plug.
A 4th line winger that wasn't producing more than any 4th liner would. Nothing special.

It took an injury to Desharnais and Galchenyuk to try him in the top 6 with better wingers and that's when they start thinking about that option as a possibility. But before that, he did absolutely nothing that showed that he could be contributing on a top 6, not even as a journeyman. Even in the AHL, he was very ordinary.

If you don't give some break to those kids, they won't show you more than what you're seeing now.

True, but Danault was 22 and 23 his first years with us. I'm talking about 19 amd 20 year old KK. The minutes you see him now getting with Poehling and Lehkonen - I'd continue giving him.

 

[LaP]

Offering Tatar 5x6 will be a mistake before the end of the 3rd year and you can quote me on that.

 

[scrubadam]

Offering Tatar 5x6 will be a mistake before the end of the 3rd year and you can quote me on that.

I just quoted you LOL.

If the last 2 years suck thats the price to pay. I made the same argument about Radu, but would of been nice to have him on the team the last 2 years when he was putting up 72 points a season.

If by a miracle we actually signed a decent UFA the last few years are always going to look like a mistake but thats the NHL.

 

[ahmedou]

In business hockey, there's no room for feeling.

 

[azcanuck]

Pro's for keeping Tatar: 1) If you're going to go for the playoffs next year your top offensive player from this year would help. 2) You cant still flip him next year but value will be less.

Con's for keeping Tatar 1) After next season he will be on the last part of his career, how much money do you want to invest in that? 2) His value may never be higher 3) Signing him to an extension will hamper signing all the young guys coming up. 4) The Canadiens are still a couple of years out. Keep getting more draft picks.

 

[ECWHSWI]

when Tatar signed his current contract, his salary was 7% of the cap, in two years to get him at 7% of the cap it will probably cost 6.3M...

after consecutive career years
never being injured
his last chance at a big payday

if he signs at 6 he's an idiot, really dont know why people keep talking about 5X6....

 

[scrubadam]

Anyone who wants Tatar traded is banned from making Bargin Bin jokes or complaining when we don't sign a UFA forward.

If Tatar was on another team and went UFA everyone on this board would be clamouring to sing him this summer and bitching at MB when he would go to NASH or BOS. Every year its the same story. Get excited to sign UFA scoring and then disapointed no one came here. Lets just avoid that and keep a guy who fits in with the team. As long as you can get 5 years and 6-7 its worth it. If the contract sucks in the last few years so what. How many bad contracts get traded every year. Kovalchuck was just bought out on a bad contract. MB traded F'n DD for F's sake. You structure the contract so the last years are low salary. And the cap will probably be 10 million more by the time Tatar starts sucking.

 

[Walrus26]

Unless we have a stud LW hiding out unnoticed somewhere, what/ who are we replacing a traded-for-picks Tatar with?

He's found a fit here, is enjoying being a star forward in a hockey-crazed environment, is playing the best hockey of his career (again).......trading Petry I understand as we have RD prospects coming through but Tatar????

The only trade we should be doing including Tatar should be on draft day as part of whatever mega deal it would take to land the #1 pick to get Laf.

 

[Pomee]

Let's give Tuna some love on this board guys!
He is one of the most underrated and unappreciated players in the NHL.
He loves Montreal, lets show him our love back!