Player Discussion Tomas Tatar (Part Two-na)

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

If he is extended at or around market value, he is tradable after signing. This team does not have much success on the free agent front, or it would not have as much cap space as it does. Frankly, I'd rather the team pay market value for a productive player, provided his wage does not price him out of the market, than leave the equivalent unspent in cap space. In addition, it also has a tradition of not developing prospects very well either, so draft picks incoming would have to be so high as to almost preclude being squandered.

 

[malton]

He won't sign for under 7m and it won't be worth it for us.

Definitely trade him while his value is at its highest.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The problem is Gallagher, Danault, Domi, Armia, Lehkonen, Poehling, Kotkaniemi and others will all be free agents by july 2021 and may all need raises.

That's not a problem though. If that happens, it's a good problem cause those guys are producing to deserve the contracts they ask for. I've looked into this in depth for the 21 off season and I see no major concerns. But I am waiting to see the new US TV deal. It expires this season so I'm assuming this gets announced sometime in the next few months. If it goes from $200M per year to $450M, I project the cap next year to be $87.5M

- Domi will get a hefty raise yes.
- Mete, Lehkonen, Armia won't get paid that much more than what they are being paid today
- Poehling, KK, Suzuki, Romanov, Primeau, etc can be bridged if required

 

[Deebs]

You make him available at the deadline and if we're provided a great offer, we trade him. If not, we keep him going into next season and do the same at that deadline. Unless his agent comes to the team with an extremely team friendly deal, no need to pursue an extension at this point in time.

 

[lamp9post]

I wouldn't mind extending him. We are a better team with him and there is no guarantee that the return (assuming draft picks) would do anything to help the team within ~4 years. The problem is that a number of key players are UFA after next season and I'm not sure we can keep all of Tatar, Danault, Gallagher, and Petry given that all will likely need raises.

 

[Mike Towers]

Ya it won't be popular on here, but MB should extend Tatar.

I know its popular opinion to trade him for MUH DRAFT PICKS, but I think we should offer Tatar 5x6 for 30 Million.

He will be 30 with the new contract, and we can be honest there is probably a less than 10% chance that the habs sign a UFA that can play on the 2nd line and score 20 G a season. The minute we lose Tatar we will be spending the next seasons lamanting that the team can't sign any UFA's to bolster the scoring.

If people were crying over not bringing back Radu, I don't see how you would not want to resign Tatar.

The 1st round pick that we get for him will take years and probably never get as many 20 G seasons as Tatar has. The guy has been one of the teams best offensive weapons since trading for him and you don't just replace that.

If he can sign for about 6 Million thats a great deal in todays NHL. When guys are getting 7 Million for 20 goal seasons, and top end guys getting 11 - 13 million, 50+ point Tatar at 6 Million is worth it.

Team has sat on cap space for years, UFA's aren't coming here, there is nothing to horde the cap space for. Resign Tatar.

Rather use cap space to target someone who is way bigger,way better and younger than Tatar....Taylor Hall.

 

[ahmedou]

Let's pay attention on those variables and let's evaluate the pros and cons before everything else:

-Length of the contract

-Long-term

-Return

-Salary

-Short-term

 

[26Mats]

That's not a problem though. If that happens, it's a good problem cause those guys are producing to deserve the contracts they ask for. I've looked into this in depth for the 21 off season and I see no major concerns. But I am waiting to see the new US TV deal. It expires this season so I'm assuming this gets announced sometime in the next few months. If it goes from $200M per year to $450M, I project the cap next year to be $87.5M

- Domi will get a hefty raise yes.
- Mete, Lehkonen, Armia won't get paid that much more than what they are being paid today
- Poehling, KK, Suzuki, Romanov, Primeau, etc can be bridged if required

I'm saying the problem is if you want to keep Tatar, you may have to lose someone else. So even if you're fine with paying Tatar 7 million in a vacuum, it may mean sacrificing another player.

Gallagher, Domi, and Danault will get big raises alone. Lehkonen and Armia's salaries will depend on their numbers. Armia's a UFA. How much is a 2-way 6'4 20 to 25 goal scorerer worth on the open market?

 

[Tyson]

I said 3x $7M and you say 5x $6M. Something like that is fair. Front load both contracts of course

No way he is worth 7 mil per.

I think his value is really high and if the Habs are sellers in Feb he should be the first player moved.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The problem is Gallagher, Danault, Domi, Armia, Lehkonen, Poehling, Kotkaniemi and others will all be free agents by july 2021 and may all need raises.

Cap's gonna go way up soon. New franchise, new tv contract. Stop worrying about the cap.

Sure, if we're planning on extending Petry and Tatar in addition to having to re-sign Domi, Danault, Gally, KK, Peelman and Lekhonen AND also signing Hall, still Alzner can be bought out for cheap at that point, giving us almost 2 mil more. Close to another 2 mil with Weise gone. Close another 2 mil for Mason. If Hall is signed, forget Tatar, so his salary is part of Hall's salary in our cap structure, so it's around 4-5 mil you have to add on the cap, not Hall's entire cap. With Weise, Mason and Alzner out, that takes care of Hall's salary difference with Tatar. The rest of our cap space, plus two seasonal upgrades to the cap ceiling and we'll have plenty to re-sign all the other players.

 

[417]

He's pricing himself out of what the Habs would reasonably pay to retain his services.

Nothing against the guy but he either moves or walks away as a UFA.

 

[Toene]

Good God...this is why we are in the position we are in.

We can't keep stockpiling these nice complimentary players without having an engine to use them to build around.

At a certain point, you have to sacrifice for the greater good and that greater good is getting the game breaking young center.

Why not package, Tatar, Lehks and a 2021 st rounder to a team desparate to win now for a young impact center like Barret Hayton or Dylan Cozens?

Hayton? Cozens? Suzuki is better than both. Kotka too I'd say.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

I'd love to keep Tatar, but he's on pace for over 70 points and it just makes the most sense to trade him at his highest value rather than re-sign him. Even without Tatar, we still have Drouin, Lehkonen, Poehling/Domi and Byron to play left wing.

We traded Shaw after a career year and Suzuki has replaced a lot of his production, if we trade Tatar maybe Lehkonen who has improved offensively this year could replace some of the production lost by Tatar on that line and hopefully a guy like Poehling starts putting up more points.

 

[26Mats]

Cap's gonna go way up soon. New franchise, new tv contract. Stop worrying about the cap.

Sure, if we're planning on extending Petry and Tatar in addition to having to re-sign Domi, Danault, Gally, KK, Peelman and Lekhonen AND also signing Hall, still Alzner can be bought out for cheap at that point, giving us almost 2 mil more. Close to another 2 mil with Weise gone. Close another 2 mil for Mason. If Hall is signed, forget Tatar, so his salary is part of Hall's salary in our cap structure, so it's around 4-5 mil you have to add on the cap, not Hall's entire cap. With Weise, Mason and Alzner out, that takes care of Hall's salary difference with Tatar. The rest of our cap space, plus two seasonal upgrades to the cap ceiling and we'll have plenty to re-sign all the other players.

In no way shape or form will I consider Hall until I hear from a reliable source he wants to come here.

Weise is closer to 1.3 million. Alzner only costs 3.5 million against the cap in the A. Buyout cap hit isn't that much better amd extends out the cap hit over more years.

I haven't done all the numbers. But 7 million seems like a lot for 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 year old Tatar.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

In no way shape or form will I consider Hall until I hear from a reliable source he wants to come here.

Weise is closer to 1.3 million. Alzner only costs 3.5 million against the cap in the A. Buyout cap hit isn't that much better amd extends out the cap hit over more years.

I haven't done all the numbers. But 7 million seems like a lot for 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 year old Tatar.

Siiiiigh

Did you actually read what I said?

You mentioned in july 21, when we'll have to re-sign many players.

Consequently I wrote AT THAT POINT.

At the point Alzner will only have 1 year to buyout. So cut the 3,5 in half if we buy him out in june 2021.

That's how I know you didnt take time to read what I said. You act as if im talking about buying out Alzner this june. We don't have to to support Hall's salary until the following year when the contract renewals come up.


Again, I'll repeat:

Buying out Alzner in June 2021 makes his cap hit go from 3.5 in the AHL to 1,16mil for two years. That's a cap economy of almost 2,4mil.

Add Mason's buyout, 1,37, we're now at 3,67 mil. Add Tatar's cap (4,8), and we're at 8,47 mil.

You really think that we shouldn't sign Hall because of that 1,5 mil that'll tip us over????



Also, I did say IF Hall wants to come and IF Bergevin wants to sign him.

 

[EXPOS123]

Hayton? Cozens? Suzuki is better than both. Kotka too I'd say.

No way...but anyways, those are just examples keeping in mind other teams needs and assets they may be willing to part with. I'd rather go for Pierre Luc Dubois or Jonathon Huberdeau, but that ain't realistic.

 

[scrubadam]

Rather use cap space to target someone who is way bigger,way better and younger than Tatar....Taylor Hall.

We aint signing Taylor Hall. Just like Duchene and JT.

So in the end we will have cap space as our highest paid player again, or go for guys like Brier and Semin or C level UFA's like Cousins/Weal.

Look at a guy like Anders Lee that fans were hoping we would snag. 7x7 contract will be 36 when it ends. A guy that fans wanted that we didn't sign of course. Once Tatar is gone we will be wanting to sign a guy just like him but we won't. And then instead we will get more Weals and Cousins and cry about how we can't sign any UFA.

 

[Andy]

The way I see it is like this:

Tatar's exceptional season while great for him on an individual level hasn't done much to improve the Habs. In other words, he's not a game-breaker. He's on a 70 point pace and the habs face an upward battle to get a wild card spot.

The issue is that his current production might put him in a salary scale that won't match his level of impact, i.e., being able to tilt the ice.

Depending on what else MB has planned, it might be best to sell high on Tatar.

 

[THE HOFF]

If he leaves some green paper on the table and wants to call Montreal his home, why not.

 

[scrubadam]

If he is extended at or around market value, he is tradable after signing. This team does not have much success on the free agent front, or it would not have as much cap space as it does. Frankly, I'd rather the team pay market value for a productive player, provided his wage does not price him out of the market, than leave the equivalent unspent in cap space. In addition, it also has a tradition of not developing prospects very well either, so draft picks incoming would have to be so high as to almost preclude being squandered.

exactly what I am talking about.

The team is not going to magically sign that A/B tier UFA like Anders Lee. A guy who has 20G-50+ point pedigree. At best we get a Semin/Brier or Cousins type. Then we will all whine and cry and make bargin bin jokes.

We have a guy who produces, fits in with the team. Keep him because we aint replacing him unless we move assets.

Its like with Radu. He walked and 2 summers we are still hoping to spend the cap and to sign JT or Duchene and now it will be Hall. Not hapening.

Open up talks now and try and get him signed early. Since its 1.5 years from UFA hopefully he will take a good deal. I am not saying sign him at all costs, but I think we could convince him to take 6-7 mill on a 5 year deal.

Clearly if he wants 8 Million + let him walk. But if he would take the same deal we offered Radu I sign him in a heartbeat.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm saying the problem is if you want to keep Tatar, you may have to lose someone else. So even if you're fine with paying Tatar 7 million in a vacuum, it may mean sacrificing another player.

Gallagher, Domi, and Danault will get big raises alone. Lehkonen and Armia's salaries will depend on their numbers. Armia's a UFA. How much is a 2-way 6'4 20 to 25 goal scorerer worth on the open market?

I think we can afford everyone if we want too. 21/22 Cap projected to be $89.5M ($6M bump this next season and $2M the year after). People going to get sensitive with the lines and some of the contracts but do your own give/take and moving things around.. Habs don't have cap issues is the main point of showing this (see below). Plus it's very likely that Weber is off the books after the 22/23 season when his salary drops to $1M at age 38.

All I did was buy out Alzner and trade Byron for a 7th. Signing Tatar at $7M is not a huge issue to our projected cap space. KK, Poehling, Caufield, Romanov, Fleury, Brook, Mete can be bridged and likely will get bridged. By the time they need to be paid, Tatar, Petry, Weber and Alzner's buyout are off the books.

This is why I said 3 years in term for Tatar at $7M. Term needs to be managed. I also don't think everyone stays

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The way I see it is like this:

Tatar's exceptional season while great for him on an individual level hasn't done much to improve the Habs. In other words, he's not a game-breaker. He's on a 70 point pace and the habs face an upward battle to get a wild card spot.

The issue is that his current production might put him in a salary scale that won't match his level of impact, i.e., being able to tilt the ice.

Depending on what else MB has planned, it might be best to sell high on Tatar.

Someone who gets it

 

[jackeymoon]

This fanbase doesn't deserve a cup

 

[26Mats]

Siiiiigh

Did you actually read what I said?

You mentioned in july 21, when we'll have to re-sign many players.

Consequently I wrote AT THAT POINT.

At the point Alzner will only have 1 year to buyout. So cut the 3,5 in half if we buy him out in june 2021.

That's how I know you didnt take time to read what I said. You act as if im talking about buying out Alzner this june. We don't have to to support Hall's salary until the following year when the contract renewals come up.


Again, I'll repeat:

Buying out Alzner in June 2021 makes his cap hit go from 3.5 in the AHL to 1,16mil for two years. That's a cap economy of almost 2,4mil.

Add Mason's buyout, 1,37, we're now at 3,67 mil. Add Tatar's cap (4,8), and we're at 8,47 mil.

You really think that we shouldn't sign Hall because of that 1,5 mil that'll tip us over????



Also, I did say IF Hall wants to come and IF Bergevin wants to sign him.

Siiiiigh

You're facts are incorrect. I see why you're so confused.

Alzner's cap hit in the AHL is 3.5 million. If he is bought out in June 2021, his cap hit in 2021-2022 is 2.29 million instead of 3.5 million and his cap hit in 2022-2023 is 1.16 million instead of 0. So the total economy of buying him out is actually $41,000 i.e. absolutely nothing. We basically trasfer 1.1 million from 2021-2022 season to the following year.

...

I'd sign Hall. I just won't consider him until I hear from a reliable source that he wants to come here. Any scenarios of Hall coming here are just as much of a waste of time as penciling Erik Karlesson into D pairings and cap space, Matt Duchene, John Tavares, Dahlin, Lafreniere, etc...

 

[Scriptor]

If he is extended at or around market value, he is tradable after signing. This team does not have much success on the free agent front, or it would not have as much cap space as it does. Frankly, I'd rather the team pay market value for a productive player, provided his wage does not price him out of the market, than leave the equivalent unspent in cap space. In addition, it also has a tradition of not developing prospects very well either, so draft picks incoming would have to be so high as to almost preclude being squandered.

I'd also say that having a player with the skill set and work ethic that Tatar has would also help develop the younger players once at the NHL level, as long as tatar isn't receiving TOI that a better, younger player should be receiving instead.

Rather see KK play with quality wingers, veteran or not than plugs like Weal and Cousins.