Confirmed with Link: Toffoli for Sharangovich (Signed @ 2 years $3.1 Million AAV), 2023 3rd round pick (CGY - #80)

[Lunatik]

Yes, but he will be available for an extension in summer, won´t be? How does he look like? Like 4,5 - 5 mil. AAV?

He's not getting an extension this summer. He's having a good year after a poor one, no GM with a brain is going to hand over a bag of cash with a year left for 1 good year.

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

So cool to have a guy who knows he's a great shooter and who won't hesitate to just shoot. Mangiapane at his best was like that as well, hope he's taking notes from Rango.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Whenever any poster here starts thinking to themselves “Wow, that GM is an idiot for that move/not doing that move, I could do so much better!”, I want you to go read the first 4 pages of this thread and be happy no one here works in hockey. I remember arguing after pre-season that no it’s not a controversial take to say Rango’s career wasn’t on the line based on pre-season play…

Kids a stud and it was obvious to anyone paying attention. Guy walked into the NHL scoring at a 21 goal pace then followed it up scoring at a 26 goal pace the following season. Conroy made the safest bet ever that a guy who can skate and absolutely wire a puck didn’t forget how to score because of one bad season where his team gave him no consistency.

 

[super6646]

Whenever any poster here starts thinking to themselves “Wow, that GM is an idiot for that move/not doing that move, I could do so much better!”, I want you to go read the first 4 pages of this thread and be happy no one here works in hockey. I remember arguing after pre-season that no it’s not a controversial take to say Rango’s career wasn’t on the line based on pre-season play…

Kids a stud and it was obvious to anyone paying attention. Guy walked into the NHL scoring at a 21 goal pace then followed it up scoring at a 26 goal pace the following season. Conroy made the safest bet ever that a guy who can skate and absolutely wire a puck didn’t forget how to score because of one bad season where his team gave him no consistency.

Yeah no lol. Make no mistake, it was a good gamble, but saying "it was the safest bet ever" is a major exaggeration. The Flames were acquiring a player who had under half the production of the guy they just traded that season.

 

[Kranix]

Whenever any poster here starts thinking to themselves “Wow, that GM is an idiot for that move/not

The amount of sky is falling takes on the trade from the same people who would have hated giving a 31 year old journeyman scorer a retirement contract, who wanted Phillips to take someone's roster spot. The two players had a comparable first 200 games in the NHL. Sharangovich is 6 years younger. It was a good trade at the time, and it's good now.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Yeah no lol. Make no mistake, it was a good gamble, but saying "it was the safest bet ever" is a major exaggeration. The Flames were acquiring a player who had under half the production of the guy they just traded that season.

It was still a gamble, but players don’t accidentally score at 21 and 26 goal paces in their first two seasons, and Hughes wasn’t exactly holding his stick for him when he fired those shots despite what some posters would have you think. We are definitely seeing an absolute heater from him and I worry about how he’ll look if we trade Lindholm and he loses the boost playing with him entails, but yes betting on a guy who entered the league looking like a mid 20s goal scorer to keep doing it in a more stable environment is a safe bet.

 

[super6646]

It was still a gamble, but players don’t accidentally score at 21 and 26 goal paces in their first two seasons, and Hughes wasn’t exactly holding his stick for him when he fired those shots despite what some posters would have you think. We are definitely seeing an absolute heater from him and I worry about how he’ll look if we trade Lindholm and he loses the boost playing with him entails, but yes betting on a guy who entered the league looking like a mid 20s goal scorer to keep doing it in a more stable environment is a safe bet.

Tbf, I don't he'll be as big a loss as some might expect. Him and Huberdeau have been the two who are really having chemistry together rn.

I wouldn't necessarily agree it was a "safe bet" either. A safe bet would've been a player with similar production who also happened to be younger too. There was absolutely risk involved, but it was calculated and smart IMO.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Tbf, I don't he'll be as big a loss as some might expect. Him and Huberdeau have been the two who are really having chemistry together rn.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk get added to Lindholm’s wings. Gaudreau adds 43 points to his pace from the previous year, Tkachuk adds 41.

Dube and Toffoli get added to Lindholm’s wings. Dube gets 50% more points year over year (doesn’t look NHL caliber without him too), and Toffoli adds 14 goals and 24 points to his totals which is a bigger boost than he’s receiving playing with Hughes.

Sharangovich and Huberdeau get added to Lindholm’s wing. Sharangovich already has the same amount of points and over twice the goals from last season, while on pace to break career highs by 10+ in both. Huberdeau is point per game+ since being added to his wing, and just looks to have his swagger back.

Either the largest string of coincidences are happening, or we might miss Lindholm. A lot.

 

[super6646]

Gaudreau and Tkachuk get added to Lindholm’s wings. Gaudreau adds 43 points to his pace from the previous year, Tkachuk adds 41.

Dube and Toffoli get added to Lindholm’s wings. Dube gets 50% more points year over year (doesn’t look NHL caliber without him too), and Toffoli adds 14 goals and 24 points to his totals which is a bigger boost than he’s receiving playing with Hughes.

Sharangovich and Huberdeau get added to Lindholm’s wing. Sharangovich already has the same amount of points and over twice the goals from last season, while on pace to break career highs by 10+ in both. Huberdeau is point per game+ since being added to his wing, and just looks to have his swagger back.

Either the largest string of coincidences are happening, or we might miss Lindholm. A lot.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk were proven point producers before Lindholm was their centre. Tkachuk had a 77 pt season playing with Backlund and Frolik, and Gadureau had 99 pts with Lindy as a winger and 78 (6th in league scoring) and 84 pt campaigns when Lindholm wasn't even in the picture. Tkachuk has since shown he can be effective w/o Lindholm, and Gaudreau's struggles have been for a variety of factors. You are correlating all of those successes to one player when I don’t think that’s an entire telling of the picture.

Huberdeau's ES production with Lindholm, up until this recent stint, was inadequate to say the least. And Sharangovich has played well with Lindholm, that is true, but keep in mind that's only half the picture. Sure, you could come to the bolded conclusion, IF you ignore a metric ton of context. Maybe those two suffer without Lindholm, but I would wager that line wouldn't be much worse off if say Sharangovich or someone else shifted to centre. I think those two are the catalyst to that line's success.

 

[Lunatik]

Whenever any poster here starts thinking to themselves “Wow, that GM is an idiot for that move/not doing that move, I could do so much better!”, I want you to go read the first 4 pages of this thread and be happy no one here works in hockey.

That's because I didn't post until page 5

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Which one of you was this ?

 

[Yepthatsme]

Gaudreau and Tkachuk were proven point producers before Lindholm was their centre. Tkachuk had a 77 pt season playing with Backlund and Frolik, and Gadureau had 99 pts with Lindy as a winger and 78 (6th in league scoring) and 84 pt campaigns when Lindholm wasn't even in the picture. Tkachuk has since shown he can be effective w/o Lindholm, and Gaudreau's struggles have been for a variety of factors. You are correlating all of those successes to one player when I don’t think that’s an entire telling of the picture.

Huberdeau's ES production with Lindholm, up until this recent stint, was inadequate to say the least. And Sharangovich has played well with Lindholm, that is true, but keep in mind that's only half the picture. Sure, you could come to the bolded conclusion, IF you ignore a metric ton of context. Maybe those two suffer without Lindholm, but I would wager that line wouldn't be much worse off if say Sharangovich or someone else shifted to centre. I think those two are the catalyst to that line's success.

It seems you’re are ignoring a bunch of context to choose the specific pieces you want to see truthfully. Yes both Gaudreau and Tkachuk found success without Lindholm, but both found the most success with Lindholm (ironically during Gaudreau’s 99 point campaign you alluded to, Lindholm was top 10 in Selke voting for the work he did for that line). As did Toffoli. As did Dube. As has Sharangovich. And right now Huberdeau is. Not only that, but really only Tkachuk in his first season with Florida has seen the same success anywhere else any other season than on Lindholm’s wing, with maybe Toffoli’s goal scoring binge in the covid shorting season counting as well. You can find any small specifics you’d like to try and explain it away, but 5 players all with 40-80 game+ sample sizes of playing their best hockey of their careers is pretty telling.

He doesn’t carry the puck too long or skate really hard though, so all the crucial things he does go wildly unnoticed. There’s a very large reason he leads our forwards in TOI by almost 3 whole minutes, and that’s because smarter minds than either you or I notice them.

 

[TBS]

Maybe those two suffer without Lindholm, but I would wager that line wouldn't be much worse off if say Sharangovich or someone else shifted to centre.

Most of Sharangovich's NHL games as the center were awful. Maybe he improved something in his game and became more useful for this role, but I think that it's too risky plan. And the most effective his games were when he played as winger before smart centers. So Yepthatsme is right - influence of Lindholm on his partners results is looked like as a key factor. And if you lost him you need to find someone as smart as he was.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Which one of you was this ?

View attachment 801836

I noticed this too

Was a ton of Flames fans crashing the Mullett that game, the Dads trip and also a popular Flames podcast group were in attendance. Good time for a AZ trip considering it's winter hell here this week.

 

[super6646]

It seems you’re are ignoring a bunch of context to choose the specific pieces you want to see truthfully. Yes both Gaudreau and Tkachuk found success without Lindholm, but both found the most success with Lindholm (ironically during Gaudreau’s 99 point campaign you alluded to, Lindholm was top 10 in Selke voting for the work he did for that line). As did Toffoli. As did Dube. As has Sharangovich. And right now Huberdeau is. Not only that, but really only Tkachuk in his first season with Florida has seen the same success anywhere else any other season than on Lindholm’s wing, with maybe Toffoli’s goal scoring binge in the covid shorting season counting as well. You can find any small specifics you’d like to try and explain it away, but 5 players all with 40-80 game+ sample sizes of playing their best hockey of their careers is pretty telling.

He doesn’t carry the puck too long or skate really hard though, so all the crucial things he does go wildly unnoticed. There’s a very large reason he leads our forwards in TOI by almost 3 whole minutes, and that’s because smarter minds than either you or I notice them.

The problem I have is that you imply that one player led to that success when I think that isn't the case. Yes, Lindholm's presence was certainly important for that line, but Tkachuk and Gaudreau also showed a ton of chemistry on their own merit. You can't discount that, especially when they never played apart from Lindholm to begin with. So who was the bigger driver? I don't think that is entirely answerable, but I think you can get a hint by seeing how Tkachuk-Lindholm was as a duo - they were good, but it wasn't until Gaudreau was added that the line really turned to magic.

There is also a ton of flip-flopping in this post. For example, you note that Tofolli's scoring binge is too small a sample size to judge from, but then you proceed to list Huberdeau as an example of a player playing his best hockey with Lindholm when they've had a 7 game run... like cmon. If you're going to make a point, be consistent. Otherwise its just disingenuous trying to fit a narrative you want to craft.

Tkachuk's first season in Florida was better than anything he showed in Calgary, especially that playoff run. 100 games isn't a small sample size either. Even with a terrible start, he's probably going to end the season well over a PPG again. If anything, Lindholm's game hasn't recovered with his loss...

Getting back to my original point, I really don't think he will be missed based off his play this year. If we're getting to intangibles that only hockey experts see, well I don't buy it. Besides his FO%, he's having his worst ES year in Calgary by a country mile. The degradation of his possession metrics in particular are concerning, and I just don't think you can look at usage as an excuse when he is at the bottom of the roster in that regards. This team, imo, is not an Elias lindholm away from contention or anything. I’d hope Calgary does what St. Louis did in 2017 with shatankirk or statsny in 2018 - trade the pending ufa and see if you can make a run regardless.

 

[Yepthatsme]

The problem I have is that you imply that one player led to that success when I think that isn't the case. Yes, Lindholm's presence was certainly important for that line, but Tkachuk and Gaudreau also showed a ton of chemistry on their own merit. You can't discount that, especially when they never played apart from Lindholm to begin with. So who was the bigger driver? I don't think that is entirely answerable, but I think you can get a hint by seeing how Tkachuk-Lindholm was as a duo - they were good, but it wasn't until Gaudreau was added that the line really turned to magic.

There is also a ton of flip-flopping in this post. For example, you note that Tofolli's scoring binge is too small a sample size to judge from, but then you proceed to list Huberdeau as an example of a player playing his best hockey with Lindholm when they've had a 7 game run... like cmon. If you're going to make a point, be consistent. Otherwise its just disingenuous trying to fit a narrative you want to craft.

Tkachuk's first season in Florida was better than anything he showed in Calgary, especially that playoff run. 100 games isn't a small sample size either. Even with a terrible start, he's probably going to end the season well over a PPG again. If anything, Lindholm's game hasn't recovered with his loss...

Getting back to my original point, I really don't think he will be missed based off his play this year. If we're getting to intangibles that only hockey experts see, well I don't buy it. Besides his FO%, he's having his worst ES year in Calgary by a country mile. The degradation of his possession metrics in particular are concerning, and I just don't think you can look at usage as an excuse when he is at the bottom of the roster in that regards. This team, imo, is not an Elias lindholm away from contention or anything. I’d hope Calgary does what St. Louis did in 2017 with shatankirk or statsny in 2018 - trade the pending ufa and see if you can make a run regardless.

You seem to have missed the point entirely. Obviously Gaudreau was the driver of that lines offensive prowess, but the fact remains that all of those players reached new heights with Lindholm. You don’t have to be the puck carrier or the facilitator to create that effect, but you can be smart, do the small things, and carry the brunt of the responsibility to allow other players to prosper. Also where did I discount Toffoli’s sample size? I was literally the one who brought it up and included it as one of the two possible seasons anyone has had better away from Lindholm? Although I’d argue last season trumped it despite his lower goal pace. But I guess it’s easier to argue semantics than the point.

Tkachuk’s first season in Florida is the only season anyone’s had better away from Lindholm so I can see why you’re sticking with it as your be all end all. Also to your point in his 5v5 metrics being the worst they’ve been in years, I’m sure you could realize the loss of Sutter plus playing heavily with relatively poor to downright bad 5v5 defenders in Rango, Mangiapane, and Huberdeau might effect that(Mangiapane is such an enigma, plays so well away from the puck with Backlund but so poorly everywhere else).

Anyways, you can dance around the peripherals as much as you want, the truth is we are currently seeing the sixth player over the last 3 years playing completely revitalized hockey with Lindholm in Huberdeau. Only Backlund manages that effect on our roster, but with a much smaller pool of players and with much less of an offensive punch. Or does Backlund also just have a string of coincidences that makes everyone play much better with him?

Also where are you getting your usage metrics because they’re downright wrong?? Only Backlund and Coleman face higher quality of opponents, and those two are the only ones who get a lower offensive zone start percentage? If you’re looking for the softest minutes our lines receive, look no further than Kadri’s line with a 65-70% offensive zone start rate and below average competition.

 

[super6646]

You seem to have missed the point entirely. Obviously Gaudreau was the driver of that lines offensive prowess, but the fact remains that all of those players reached new heights with Lindholm. You don’t have to be the puck carrier or the facilitator to create that effect, but you can be smart, do the small things, and carry the brunt of the responsibility to allow other players to prosper. Also where did I discount Toffoli’s sample size? I was literally the one who brought it up and included it as one of the two possible seasons anyone has had better away from Lindholm? Although I’d argue last season trumped it despite his lower goal pace. But I guess it’s easier to argue semantics than the point.

Tkachuk’s first season in Florida is the only season anyone’s had better away from Lindholm so I can see why you’re sticking with it as your be all end all. Also to your point in his 5v5 metrics being the worst they’ve been in years, I’m sure you could realize the loss of Sutter plus playing heavily with relatively poor to downright bad 5v5 defenders in Rango, Mangiapane, and Huberdeau might effect that(Mangiapane is such an enigma, plays so well away from the puck with Backlund but so poorly everywhere else).

Anyways, you can dance around the peripherals as much as you want, the truth is we are currently seeing the sixth player over the last 3 years playing completely revitalized hockey with Lindholm in Huberdeau. Only Backlund manages that effect on our roster, but with a much smaller pool of players and with much less of an offensive punch. Or does Backlund also just have a string of coincidences that makes everyone play much better with him?

Also where are you getting your usage metrics because they’re downright wrong?? Only Backlund and Coleman face higher quality of opponents, and those two are the only ones who get a lower offensive zone start percentage? If you’re looking for the softest minutes our lines receive, look no further than Kadri’s line with a 65-70% offensive zone start rate and below average competition.

Not going to continue this song and dance for now (maybe later lol), but with the bolded I meant his usage doesn’t excuse the fact he’s had terrible possession metrics. Bad wording on my part, I can see where the confusion arose there.

 

[IharRB]

Sharangovich's throw is strong and accurate. Realization is high.

Backlund also has a strong shot, but not accurate.

 

[Lunatik]

Strong and accurate throw, eh? Rango replacing Chappy at 3B for the Jays, you heard it here first.

 

[IharRB]

Strong and accurate throw, eh? Rango replacing Chappy at 3B for the Jays, you heard it here first.

I'm from Minsk, Belarus.
I've been following him for a long time.

 

[IharRB]

 

[IharRB]

Some answers to trading

I Don’t Understand Yegor Sharangovich’s Usage

Yegor Sharangovich is in a contract year, he is producing about the same as he did in the last two seasons, and yet his ice time has been cut except on the penalty kill. In this post, I look at his on-ice data and usage, and I don’t get it. What do you think?

www.google.com

New Jersey Devils RFA Profile: Yegor Sharangovich

Yegor Sharangovich is one of the several restricted free agents on the New Jersey Devils. Unfortunately, his 2022-23 season was a disappointment compared with the prior two. This post goes into his time with the Devils so far, comparable contracts, and what I think the Devils will do with him.

www.allaboutthejersey.com

 

[IharRB]

"Even if this is all some kind of long game to make Sharangovich’s third contract not cost so much, then that seems to me like cutting off the nose (potential success) to spite the face (cap and roster management). "

 

[IharRB]

The agent of the Belarusian forward Yegor Sharangovich Dan Milstein commented on the exchange of his client to Calgary:
“ Sharangovich himself asked for an exchange from New Jersey , and it was received. We have been working on this transfer for the last few months. <

We are now working on the next contract for Yegor , we hope to agree on it with Calgary in the coming days , ”

 

[IharRB]

As has been said here, this was a win-win for the Calgary Flames, his skill set will keep him from completely falling through the cracks, and even if he isn't as good next season, he could easily be traded for no loss. At the same time, the team has Suniev