Speculation: Toews

[crazyhawk]

Kane's game has gotten better because he has continually worked on it, he won the Hart trophy and would most likely won two in a row if not for injury.

Toews gets his deserved criticism not just for his lack of production but for his poor effort and lack of compete for the past half decade or so which is probably magnified a bit due to how overhyped he was earlier in his career with the Captain Serious thing.

I would think it fairly obvious as to why Kane has maintained while the likes of Seabrook, Keith, Hossa and in particular Toews have not and it isn't because Kane has worked hard on his skill set per se .. Kane has always played his game without any primary contact, no concussions and no hard physical minutes of banging it out game in and game out. Repeated hits take their toll on the body. For some the body can take more than others but Kaner hasn't really ever had to sustain physical abuse. I can only remember the one hit that cracked his collar bone .. I'm sure there are a few other hits but by and large Kane is a master at avoiding any real contact.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I would think it fairly obvious as to why Kane has maintained while the likes of Seabrook, Keith, Hossa and in particular Toews have not and it isn't because Kane has worked hard on his skill set per se .. Kane has always played his game without any primary contact, no concussions and no hard physical minutes of banging it out game in and game out. Repeated hits take their toll on the body. For some the body can take more than others but Kaner hasn't really ever had to sustain physical abuse. I can only remember the one hit that cracked his collar bone .. I'm sure there are a few other hits but by and large Kane is a master at avoiding any real contact.

To me, the really surprising decliner of the group has been Keith. I thought he was going to be a Lidstrom-level freak that kept up his Norris level play into his late 30s.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Both points are correct. The type of game Kane plays has a lot to do with him still being effective into his mid-30s, while all of the others dropped off early.
Kane is the outlier from the Hawks group, not Toews. Keith and Hossa just got old

Toews
Sharp
Bolland
Seabrook

all lost it fairly young, in their late 20s and early 30s.

Actually Sharp remained consistent throughout his career until the final two seasons when he turned 35 when he just tanked.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Actually Sharp remained consistent throughout his career until the final two seasons when he turned 35 when he just tanked.

Sharp had already declined at 33. He was a 3rd liner on the Cup winning 2015 team.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Sharp had already declined at 33. He was a 3rd liner on the Cup winning 2015 team.

Still his usual 20 goal/50 pointish self... Still alot better than Toews declining at 27 or so

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I don't buy for a second that Toews doesn't work his ass off. But injuries, especially head injuries, linger and take a step off both physically and psychologically. I'm sure he's frustrated with his level of play and where the organization is at and is going, and his participation in three Cups has more than earned him the right to make mild complaints at the very least. As for what his trade value is, I have no freaking clue whatsoever.

Regarding Keith, I think he just tapped his longterm reserves too deeply in 2015 and was never able to recover.

 

[BHawk21]

Never said his AAV was too high or that the contracts were a mistake. I’m saying he didn’t play up to his new contract.

And no he was not providing 1C production from the 2015-2017 seasons. He was a 50-60ish point player making $10.5

So what should he have signed for provided he just won 3 cups at a 6.3 cap. 8.5? Hes still not playing to 8.5 and the hawks still would not have won anything. whats the difference. The cap unexpectant didn't go up, he declined earlier than what most thought. I have zero doubt in my mind Toews is trying his hardest to be the best player he can be. Personally hes in a wayyy worse situation than the organization even his biggest fans are turning against him because he got paid what he deserved at the time.

 

[CanadianHawks]

Not sure if the off chance of Monahan bouncing back is worth the extra year of term.

Both are UFAs after next year

Monahan practicing with healthy scratches today

 

[hawksfan50]

So us Toews realky being honest with himself?

If we give him a mulligan for this seadon forctgecexcuse he coukd notvworkboutvproperly this past summer due to his yar off and tKibgvtine last summer to Barry work off tge ristcand still not able to get back to 'proper" play shape,then tgexexcuse has got tobrun out after this summer when we assume hechas worked himself finally to tge level wheel heviscresdy to resume "prooer" summer workouts at the required level to get to top form and a reboundc season.

No more excuses or reasons he cannot get back to expected production and defending norms ....no reasons renaining for him to not show his "best hockey"...EXCEOT if he cannot get back to proper kev form then he must face Reality that he is over the cliff and cannot get back.

In that case the honorable thing to do woukd becto admit it...and after trying in tge first few months of next season,either just retiring or announcing hexwull after the season...that it woukd be his last.

Ok..he owes himself and we fans owe him 1 just sumner ifv"proper training" to find out IF he can bounce back to exoectex form or to still be stick i the mud.


If he gets back to form we still shoukdctrade him unless he offers a huge discount on a shortter(3 yrvonly( extention if hecwants to waivecand take a better shot at a Cup than sticking through a re-build.
If hexwantscti stay at a huge discount then ok ...

But he may need to accept a reduced role as 3C when it is determined Reichel is ready to replace him at 2C.

 

[Drumman44]

Both are UFAs after next year

Monahan practicing with healthy scratches today

Thanks I didn't realize that.

What would be a fair price to swap?

 

[hawksrule]

So what should he have signed for provided he just won 3 cups at a 6.3 cap. 8.5? Hes still not playing to 8.5 and the hawks still would not have won anything. whats the difference. The cap unexpectant didn't go up, he declined earlier than what most thought. I have zero doubt in my mind Toews is trying his hardest to be the best player he can be. Personally hes in a wayyy worse situation than the organization even his biggest fans are turning against him because he got paid what he deserved at the time.

No one blames him for taking the money. But if you take the money and don't perform, you're going to hear it. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

This is such an odd post, as if the market value of the franchise is a metric from which we fans derive gratification.

Plenty of people bootlick for billionaires. It's bizarre.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Thanks I didn't realize that.

What would be a fair price to swap?

Honestly, I think just making the cap roughly even with a small add. Monahan+3rd and an interesting prospect for Toews@$6.5M

 

[BHawk21]

No one blames him for taking the money. But if you take the money and don't perform, you're going to hear it. It's the nature of the beast.

i can agree with that. i dont agree with saying hes not trying.

 

[BHawk21]

Plenty of people bootlick for billionaires. It's bizarre.

and what billionaire is being bootlicked in this scenerio?

 

[Drumman44]

Honestly, I think just making the cap even with a small add. Monahan+3rd and an interesting player they were going to waive anyway for Toews@$6M

I think the urgency to be rid of Monahan is to re-sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk so adding Toews doesn't do shit for them unless you're taking back Lucic or something.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

and what billionaire is being bootlicked in this scenerio?

Not at all what I said.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I think the urgency to be rid of Monahan is to re-sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk so adding Toews doesn't do shit for them unless you're taking back Lucic or something.

Toews is still a better player than Monahan at this point.

But yeah, if they're trying to do that, then it really doesn't work.

Lucic only has one more year

 

[BHawk21]

This is such an odd post, as if the market value of the franchise is a metric from which we fans derive gratification.

hes earned his money. you earn gratification from winning they would not be winning if he made 8.5 or 10.5. so why complain about his cap hit? he deserved the contract when he got it. i dont know what else there is to complain about.

 

[Drumman44]

Toews is still a better player than Monahan at this point.

But yeah, if they're trying to do that, then it really doesn't work.

Lucic only has one more year

What about

Toews at 50% for Lucic, Monahan, Villamaki, a first and a second?

 

[BHawk21]

Not at all what I said.

Can you expand then? What was the contextual meaning when you said that is bizarre people bootlick for billionaires? I was under the impression you were referring to Hawksrule saying "its bizarre to talk about toews impact on organizational success" since that is what you quoted.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

What about

Toews at 50% for Lucic, Monahan, Villamaki, a first and a second?

The Hawks don't have the cap space for that unless they're going to let Strome and Kubalik walk.
But yeah, I'd do that.

 

[BHawk21]

I think if toews is ready to go you offer every team toews at 50% if you get any takers that are reasonable you take it. Monahan is a great example if toews is still better it doesnt matter take it and and show its time to start fresh. Full tank and do right by one of the best players in Chicago history. Do not Sosa this situation over one rebuilding year.

 

[Putt Pirate]

What about

Toews at 50% for Lucic, Monahan, Villamaki, a first and a second?

I’d do that if possible. I am hoping we have the space after the draft.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Can you expand then? What was the contextual meaning when you said that is bizarre people bootlick for billionaires? I was under the impression you were referring to Hawksrule saying "its bizarre to talk about toews impact on organizational success" since that is what you quoted.

It happens in sports and life aplenty. I'm all for players getting paid every last dollar. Wasn't accusing you of doing so if that's how it came off.