Speculation: Toews

[CanadianHawks]

If the Hawks want to trade Toews, maybe a deal with Calgary would make the most sense?

Monahan has one year left and his game has gone to shit. Hawks retain on Toews and they swap. We get a younger player who can bounce back offensively and Sutter gets a middle six C who he would be very familiar with from the 13 and 14 series

He would figure he can get a lot of Toews game back. The Hawks would be banking on Monahan able to bounce back with a playmaker like Kane or even Dach at wing and being able to flip him at the deadline.

Just an idea if Toews isn’t happy

 

[Pez68]

 

[Hattrick Kane]

If the Hawks want to trade Toews, maybe a deal with Calgary would make the most sense?

Monahan has one year left and his game has gone to shit. Hawks retain on Toews and they swap. We get a younger player who can bounce back offensively and Sutter gets a middle six C who he would be very familiar with from the 13 and 14 series

He would figure he can get a lot of Toews game back. The Hawks would be banking on Monahan able to bounce back with a playmaker like Kane or even Dach at wing and being able to flip him at the deadline.

Just an idea if Toews isn’t happy

I doubt they’d do it. If Gaudreau walks, they might as well be rebuilding at that point. And they still have to pay Tkachuk as well. Too much for them to figure out this offseason.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

You're claims of when Toews game fell off or didn't try was when he was one of the top of the league producers of chances and corsi still, he had no finish on his line yeah. That production lack is not compete lack. But when he was let off playing D and with Kane it rose back up, until he actually really did physically fall off now health wise.

I know he nearing the end so people will want to take it a bit easy on him but it clear to anyone who has watched him the past 7 seasons or so the effort and compete has not been there every night.

Which is why it so funny a couple Toews fanboys always seem to cry about the GOAT Blackhawk Patrick Kane

 

[goldenbladz1]

He obviously does, just players are who they are... There a reason why Kane's game has improved even playing with all the plugs he has had while Jonathan's game fell off a cliff when he doesn't have stars on his line.

you're kidding right. It's no coincidence that every member of the Hawks championship teams careers ended prematurely Toews, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Versteeg even Keith yet Kane is still doing Kane and is left unscathed because of his super soft play. I'm not saying he wasn't extremely important in all the cups because he was but he no longer has the supporting cast to do all the heavy lifting while he plays pond hockey. So you somehow put Kane on a pedestal but his body hasn't broken down like all the others did. Kane's game has not gotten better. He still does the same BS overhandling the puck like i already mentioned and tries the same old cross ice back door passes.

 

[goldenbladz1]

It takes a special level of cognitive dissonance to shit on Kane and white knight for Toews.

i haven't seen anyone white knighting Toews more like putting Kane on an ivory tower. While the rest of the championship cast is tossed aside like they meant nothing now. First it was dissing Seabrook and then Keith and now Toews.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

i haven't seen anyone white knighting Toews more like putting Kane on an ivory tower. While the rest of the championship cast is tossed aside like they meant nothing now. First it was dissing Seabrook and then Keith and now Toews.

You do realize that sports are a "what have you done for me lately" business, right?

Kane continues to hold up his end of the bargain, team success is absent due to the other elements of the game missing on this team, not because of P. Kane in any way.

As to the other Cup winners' careers being cut short, Hossa-mystery rash, Seabrook's last 1/3 of his years was not a well conditioned athlete...etc. ALL of them played the best WAY they could to make it to NHL, be very good NHL players, get paid big money in NHL. Each one did it for themselves and were meshed together for a helluva run. You think Seabrook would have made it trying to play Brian Campbell's game? Or vice versa. Nobody on that team was carried by anyone else.

Now Toews is being carried by Kane when he gets points, that is the point some of us are trying to make while others are driving while only looking in the rear view mirror.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

i haven't seen anyone white knighting Toews more like putting Kane on an ivory tower. While the rest of the championship cast is tossed aside like they meant nothing now. First it was dissing Seabrook and then Keith and now Toews.

It sucked to see Toews and Seabrook fall apart and Keith get old. Didn't make the jokes some did. Not putting Kane on any pedestal. He's the same flawed offensive monster he always was. But that's ok. You can make millions of dollars being a defensively responsible PK guy that willingly destroys your body to stick at this level.

Kane doesn't need too. He's special. Life isn't fair. Welcome to the party pal.

 

[TheFridge]

This team has been directionless for 5 years. It must be frustrating for the players that have been here -- especially a guy like Toews who was a big part of the dynasty. So many bad moves; so much mismanagement. The Hawks should have committed to a proper reset/retool after the Nashville series, but not by trading Panarin and Hammer to fluff Bowman's enraged ego. They would have been so much better for it. We were always going to get to this spot with so many players from the good years aging out of the league, injuries, declines, etc... but the last 5 years didn't have to be as bad as they were. And the worst part was that they were bad, yet we have little to show for it. Dach and Reichel are the only real glimmers of hope as prospects accumulated through those years (and I know many have soured on Dach).

 

[BHawk21]

Pretending like Toews didn't earn his keep through his entire career as a hawk is just dumb. He has made this organization soooo much money what is the difference if he makes another 35 million over his worth with below average play. They werent going to win anyway and its not the fans money. The organization won three cups and became the premier club in hockey with him at the forefront. The franchise went from 300 million in value to 1.4 billion from 2010 until now. Sure a rise would happen anyway but he was a major part of putting this organization on his back.

 

[BHawk21]

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[x Tame Impala]

Can't believe that it needs to be said on the Hawks forum but it's possible to love everything Toews did for the fans and team while also thinking his play after signing his contract seriously hindered the team going forward. Some of you are too sensitive, acting like we're trashing Toews and Seabrook at their funerals or something.

They didn't play well! Ok? Seabrook sucked after signing his contract and it was a huge waste of cap space that forced us to trade away talent elsewhere. Toews played like a 60pt 2C for the last 7 seasons when he was supposed to be an 80 pt possession/shutdown monster. They didn't live up to their contracts. It's the reality of the situation. Saying posters are being disrespectful and should be ashamed of themselves for thinking this is so juvenile and you posters doing it should just get over yourselves and your holier than though attitudes

 

[Drumman44]

If the Hawks want to trade Toews, maybe a deal with Calgary would make the most sense?

Monahan has one year left and his game has gone to shit. Hawks retain on Toews and they swap. We get a younger player who can bounce back offensively and Sutter gets a middle six C who he would be very familiar with from the 13 and 14 series

He would figure he can get a lot of Toews game back. The Hawks would be banking on Monahan able to bounce back with a playmaker like Kane or even Dach at wing and being able to flip him at the deadline.

Just an idea if Toews isn’t happy

Not sure if the off chance of Monahan bouncing back is worth the extra year of term.

 

[TheFridge]

Not sure if the off chance of Monahan bouncing back is worth the extra year of term.

It doesn't matter. The Hawks aren't going to be good for years. You're not worried about taking on a bad contract that has 2-3 years left on it. You're worried about the cap forecast 4-6 years from this summer.

 

[BHawk21]

Can't believe that it needs to be said on the Hawks forum but it's possible to love everything Toews did for the fans and team while also thinking his play after signing his contract seriously hindered the team going forward. Some of you are too sensitive, acting like we're trashing Toews and Seabrook at their funerals or something.

They didn't play well! Ok? Seabrook sucked after signing his contract and it was a huge waste of cap space that forced us to trade away talent elsewhere. Toews played like a 60pt 2C for the last 7 seasons when he was supposed to be an 80 pt possession/shutdown monster. They didn't live up to their contracts. It's the reality of the situation. Saying posters are being disrespectful and should be ashamed of themselves for thinking this is so juvenile and you posters doing it should just get over yourselves and your holier than though attitudes

also should be said that they were offered those contracts. he wasn't supposed to be anything. if they played above the contract rocky wasn't going to give them more money. all contracts coming to a standstill because the Canadian dollar crashes to make the Toews and Kane contracts look worse doesn't have any bearing on their play. There's many factors you are not paying attention to because you don't like how he performed based on the contract someone else gave him.

 

[x Tame Impala]

also should be said that they were offered those contracts. he wasn't supposed to be anything. if they played above the contract rocky wasn't going to give them more money. all contracts coming to a standstill because the Canadian dollar crashes to make the Toews and Kane contracts look worse doesn't have any bearing on their play. There's many factors you are not paying attention to because you don't like how he performed based on the contract someone else gave him.

If that's the argument you want to go with then fine. Toews never played like a number 1 center after signing that contract and Seabrook never played like a top pairing defenseman. The AAV and Canadian dollar situation is neither here nor there at this point. They got new contracts because they were the most important players on our team, then after signing those deals and consuming that cap space, they stopped playing like the most effective players on our team.

That sucks.

 

[Drumman44]

It doesn't matter. The Hawks aren't going to be good for years. You're not worried about taking on a bad contract that has 2-3 years left on it. You're worried about the cap forecast 4-6 years from this summer.

OK but if Calgary isn't going to cough up anything other than Monahan then what's the point in tying up cap? You should be getting something for adding to the cap.

 

[ClydeLee]

If that's the argument you want to go with then fine. Toews never played like a number 1 center after signing that contract and Seabrook never played like a top pairing defenseman. The AAV and Canadian dollar situation is neither here nor there at this point. They got new contracts because they were the most important players on our team, then after signing those deals and consuming that cap space, they stopped playing like the most effective players on our team.

That sucks.

They won the cup after signing those contracts, and he still absolutely was a no¹ center in performance for 3 years. Not 10.5 mil but I'm still amazed how many Hawks fans always act like they'd rather of been better from 16-20, even looking back, than have a 3rd cup.

Get the same attitude with like wishing Leddy wasn't traded or the draft picks that helped win.

 

[TheFridge]

OK but if Calgary isn't going to cough up anything other than Monahan then what's the point in tying up cap? You should be getting something for adding to the cap.

Wasn't that the point? Toews at %50 for Monahan plus an asset for taking on an extra year of Monahan's term? If it's just a one-for-one swap, I wouldn't do the deal either.

 

[x Tame Impala]

They won the cup after signing those contracts, and he still absolutely was a no¹ center in performance for 3 years. Not 10.5 mil but I'm still amazed how many Hawks fans always act like they'd rather of been better from 16-20, even looking back, than have a 3rd cup.

Get the same attitude with like wishing Leddy wasn't traded or the draft picks that helped win.

Never said his AAV was too high or that the contracts were a mistake. I’m saying he didn’t play up to his new contract.

And no he was not providing 1C production from the 2015-2017 seasons. He was a 50-60ish point player making $10.5

 

[BLKHKhockey]

This somehow turned into team Kane vs team Toews.

They both did amazing things for this team. One's health didn't hold up as long as the other's.

I don't get how anyone can question either's work ethic unless you watch every practice and train with them.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

you're kidding right. It's no coincidence that every member of the Hawks championship teams careers ended prematurely Toews, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Versteeg even Keith yet Kane is still doing Kane and is left unscathed because of his super soft play. I'm not saying he wasn't extremely important in all the cups because he was but he no longer has the supporting cast to do all the heavy lifting while he plays pond hockey. So you somehow put Kane on a pedestal but his body hasn't broken down like all the others did. Kane's game has not gotten better. He still does the same BS overhandling the puck like i already mentioned and tries the same old cross ice back door passes.

Kane's game has gotten better because he has continually worked on it, he won the Hart trophy and would most likely won two in a row if not for injury.

Toews gets his deserved criticism not just for his lack of production but for his poor effort and lack of compete for the past half decade or so which is probably magnified a bit due to how overhyped he was earlier in his career with the Captain Serious thing.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

you're kidding right. It's no coincidence that every member of the Hawks championship teams careers ended prematurely Toews, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Versteeg even Keith yet Kane is still doing Kane and is left unscathed because of his super soft play. I'm not saying he wasn't extremely important in all the cups because he was but he no longer has the supporting cast to do all the heavy lifting while he plays pond hockey. So you somehow put Kane on a pedestal but his body hasn't broken down like all the others did. Kane's game has not gotten better. He still does the same BS overhandling the puck like i already mentioned and tries the same old cross ice back door passes.

Kane's game has gotten better because he has continually worked on it, he won the Hart trophy and would most likely won two in a row if not for injury.

Both points are correct. The type of game Kane plays has a lot to do with him still being effective into his mid-30s, while all of the others dropped off early.
Kane is the outlier from the Hawks group, not Toews. Keith and Hossa just got old

Toews
Sharp
Bolland
Seabrook

all lost it fairly young, in their late 20s and early 30s.

 

[hawksfan50]

Ok...so this summer isxa test fir Toews...hectginks his best hockey is ahead with a proper summer of training...ok...show it.

So Hawks cannot lose or could lose e IF he has a rebound season:

Cannot lose:
1.His TDL value will be greater..
2.The prorated remaiber of his his n cap hit willbe only a bit over $1million of Hawks retain half (aoorox. 20% of $10.5 million) if Hawks retain 50%...so notca big problem for teams I woukd think.

3.He would wave his NMC Hawks out of playpff contention.and he has no extention in place.

CAN LOSE:

1.If he returns to top expected form= 28-32 goals and 38-40 assists pace projected to end of sesson ... putting in tgat kind of performance (back to a 70 pts guy( means he has successfully derived thec2nd line and we shoukd see a double digit pisitive at evens in the +/-...so back to normal exoectation for hom....so if he does this then Hawks rise in stabdibgs and couldvkise lottery chance at Bedard...

2 If he rebounds to "best hockey" then Hawks coukd be tempted to extend him thinking he is alk the way back and they can get 3-4more "normal" seasons from hom....Extention woukd beca mistake because you do notcdo that ina re-buikd...you need to get younger assets of high potential for older midx30s assets.
So tgey lose if tgey fall into a trap of extending him and bypass selling high at TDL. 2023.


Of course thisvusxakl most ifvhecstinksxGain nextcsesdon after his promise of best hockey to conecwith proper summer training.


In thusxworst case scenario hisxtrade value drops and trading him at TDL Hawksxwoukd be at the buyer's mercy in getting much value back.

 

[hawksrule]

Pretending like Toews didn't earn his keep through his entire career as a hawk is just dumb. He has made this organization soooo much money what is the difference if he makes another 35 million over his worth with below average play. They werent going to win anyway and its not the fans money. The organization won three cups and became the premier club in hockey with him at the forefront. The franchise went from 300 million in value to 1.4 billion from 2010 until now. Sure a rise would happen anyway but he was a major part of putting this organization on his back.

This is such an odd post, as if the market value of the franchise is a metric from which we fans derive gratification.