Speculation: Toews

[Putt Pirate]

Team success equaled pay raises…

Bickell was a beast in 2013, got paid, Seabrook is a leader, got paid after Keith had signed his extension

Lots of teams are paying players for what they might do, Hawks paid players for what they did…

Look at Ottawa and Edmonton after making the finals they paid players and never made it back…

I’ll take this mess we’re in now for what it got us beforehand

Good GMs don’t do that very often. Stan was anything but a below good GM. He was a moron.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Money does strange things to people sometimes.

Seabs and Jonny

 

[jaysoneil]

That’s part of the deal. No one is going to fault a player for taking as much money as they can get or signing a contract they’re offered. However with that comes expectations relative to the contract size. If you’re being paid as a top-10 player in the league, you need to be a top-10 player. It’s a cap league. Can’t win in a cap league if you have a bunch of guys not living up to the value of their deals.

Fun fact: Toews was making $850k when the Hawks won in 2010 (Conn Smythe) and $6.5m in 2013/2015. He led the Hawk's to 3 Cup's on an AAV of $4.6m over those 3 years, lol.

At that point, you HAVE to pay the man.

 

[Space umpire]

You just know Toews had his fingerprints all over those Bickell and Seabrook deals too...he was a Stan guy.

If he'd been born 10-20 years earlier you know he'd be a Wirtz guy like Savard

Evidence?

 

[Space umpire]

Of the 3 guys referred to here none of them slacked off after getting paid.
Bickell had MS, end of discussion.
Seabrook had to have major body parts replaced.
Toews has had countless concussions. Look at his facial expression’s and listen to him speak. Not what he says but how he seems to search for simple words. The guys brain is mush.

My issue is not the trashing of Bowman for paying too late or too much but the insinuation that any of the 3 are/were just sitting back collecting checks is bullshit.
Toews and Seabrook ruined their bodies (and potentially their future health) to win cups.

 

[hawksrule]

Of the 3 guys referred to here none of them slacked off after getting paid.
Bickell had MS, end of discussion.
Seabrook had to have major body parts replaced.
Toews has had countless concussions. Look at his facial expression’s and listen to him speak. Not what he says but how he seems to search for simple words. The guys brain is mush.

My issue is not the trashing of Bowman for paying too late or too much but the insinuation that any of the 3 are/were just sitting back collecting checks is bullshit.
Toews and Seabrook ruined their bodies (and potentially their future health) to win cups.

These sort of statements are insufferable. They’re highly compensated athletes, not war heroes.

 

[Pez68]

These sort of statements are insufferable. They’re highly compensated athletes, not war heroes.

Absolutely. These guys receive generational wealth, playing a f***ing game. Spare me the don't disrespect them nonsense. If only the rest of the world was lucky enough to receive guaranteed money regardless of performance in their job.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Evidence?

His defense of Bowman this year and the reports of him going and complaining to Stan about him missing Saad which lead to the terrible trade of Panarin.

 

[Space umpire]

I’m guessing Chicago schools failed to develop comprehension skills.
The insinuation is they got the big raises and are taking it easy.
I think there is nothing left. They are (were) finished as players of the level they achieved.
Toews isn’t dogging it. He can no longer do at a high level the things he used to. It’s not that he doesn’t try, he can’t.

 

[Bubba88]

Also have to remember that he skipped all of last year. Combine that with all the injuries and his play style and tell me again you expected more entering this season.

 

[BK]

Also have to remember that he skipped all of last year. Combine that with all the injuries and his play style and tell me again you expected more entering this season.

He didn't "skip" last year. Skipping implies he could have played, and he had a real medical condition.

 

[Bubba88]

He didn't "skip" last year. Skipping implies he could have played, and he had a real medical condition.

okay (my bad), than word it as missed all of last season. Doesn't really change the point of not expecting more out of him.

 

[hawksrule]

He didn't "skip" last year. Skipping implies he could have played, and he had a real medical condition.

Whether he had a medical condition I don’t know, but the one he claimed to have was not a real condition.

 

[hawksrule]

I’m guessing Chicago schools failed to develop comprehension skills.
The insinuation is they got the big raises and are taking it easy.
I think there is nothing left. They are (were) finished as players of the level they achieved.
Toews isn’t dogging it. He can no longer do at a high level the things he used to. It’s not that he doesn’t try, he can’t.

Now that you dropped the part about them being war heroes, we’re left with the above that no one cares about. Fact is, he’s bad, wildly overpaid, and still acts like his shit don’t stink. You want to keep kissing his fanny, have at it, the rest of us can both appreciate his contributions from ten years ago and still call the situation for what it is.

 

[Putt Pirate]

Now that you dropped the part about them being war heroes, we’re left with the above that no one cares about. Fact is, he’s bad, wildly overpaid, and still acts like his shit don’t stink. You want to keep kissing his fanny, have at it, the rest of us can both appreciate his contributions from ten years ago and still call the situation for what it is.

This. We are all appreciative of what he and the team contributed. But to say because of that he gets a pass for crap play for half a decade while the highest paid player on the team is ridiculous. He can be praised for the wins as he is for his play.

It was expected he would continue to be close to his level for the length of contract and he hasn’t been. Couple that with his petulance and he becomes a real boat anchor and someone this org should want to distance itself from.

 

[BHawk21]

This. We are all appreciative of what he and the team contributed. But to say because of that he gets a pass for crap play for half a decade while the highest paid player on the team is ridiculous. He can be praised for the wins as he is for his play.

It was expected he would continue to be close to his level for the length of contract and he hasn’t been. Couple that with his petulance and he becomes a real boat anchor and someone this org should want to distance itself from.

im always interested in this. ok hes not playing up to his contract. he is unable to....he physically cannot anymore. what would you like him to do? Retire and give up millions that he earned earlier in his career? He was getting paid peanuts while the team was making money and winning. What more do you want him to do hes broken his body so that the team can have a run of a lifetime. Hes literally not able to play up to the 10.5 hes getting.

 

[Giovi]

His defense of Bowman this year and the reports of him going and complaining to Stan about him missing Saad which lead to the terrible trade of Panarin.

That's a nice bit of revisionist history.

 

[Space umpire]

Now that you dropped the part about them being war heroes, we’re left with the above that no one cares about. Fact is, he’s bad, wildly overpaid, and still acts like his shit don’t stink. You want to keep kissing his fanny, have at it, the rest of us can both appreciate his contributions from ten years ago and still call the situation for what it is.

Again, reading comprehension is so important.
Please copy/paste where I referred to any of them as war hero’s?
While you’re at it show exactly where I kissed his ass.
Basically all I wrote is I think he’s (all of them) are playing their best. The bodies (brain in Toews case) are broken and incapable of producing at the levels they once did.

 

[Pez68]

Imagine talking shit about Chicago schools and reading comprehension, while still spelling heroes incorrectly, after someone spelled it the right way for you, in the post you quoted. Come on.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

im always interested in this. ok hes not playing up to his contract. he is unable to....he physically cannot anymore. what would you like him to do? Retire and give up millions that he earned earlier in his career? He was getting paid peanuts while the team was making money and winning. What more do you want him to do hes broken his body so that the team can have a run of a lifetime. Hes literally not able to play up to the 10.5 hes getting.

Lol peanuts? He was making 6.5 million a year...

He could always retire for medical reasons like Hossa, Shaw, Bolland, Seabrook....still gets his money

 

[BHawk21]

Lol peanuts? He was making 6.5 million a year...

He could always retire for medical reasons like Hossa, Shaw, Bolland, Seabrook....still gets his money

He was making 850k when he captain the hawks to their first stanley cup in 50 years and won the conn smythe. He was then captaining the hawks in 2013 and 2015 to a stanley cup for 6.3 while ovechkin was making 9.5. He was the 40th highest paid player during those last few years on his 2nd contract while many considered him to be a top 5 player in the game.

hes not retiring because he wants to play and can still play. hes .5 point per game right now after a full year off.

over his career his cap average is 7.37 million a year. Hes one of the best players in franchise history. whats the problem.

.84 ppg in the regular season .87 pts per game in the playoffs. selke conn smyth 10 playoff appearences. 4 all star games. hes earned every cent.

if he was playing for free the hawks would still be terrible.

 

[TheFridge]

Fun fact: Toews was making $850k when the Hawks won in 2010 (Conn Smythe) and $6.5m in 2013/2015. He led the Hawk's to 3 Cup's on an AAV of $4.6m over those 3 years, lol.

At that point, you HAVE to pay the man.

His caphit was 850k but he got paid a ton in performance bonuses, same with Kane. By the end of their 2nd contracts, both Toews and Kane were providing surplus value relative to their contracts but they weren't initially when their caphits represented 11% of CHI's cap each in 2010-11.

Besides, I'm not arguing against having paid Toews (and Kane). My point was that once you sign the contract, you have to live up to it and if you don't, the criticism is fair game. The Hawks haven't won a playoff series since those deals have gone into effect and Toews went from a guy that was getting Hart votes and all-star votes basically perennially to having two seasons after the deal where he got all-star votes, while watching his production and two-way play both drop significantly. Meanwhile, Kane signed that deal and saw his production take off, while winning an Art Ross, Hart Trophy and having only one season where he didn't garner any Hart/all-star votes.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Bickell had MS, end of discussion.

It's a shame Bickell got MS but even w/o getting sick it was a huge overpayment. Bickell only played when he would get paid. He signed his entry contract and did squat in 3 years. They woke him up with a 1 year deal for 1/3rd less to wake him up.

His next 3 year contract was for similar money but his salary would be the same in NHL or AHL, confident guy huh?

At the end of that deal, he had the monster playoff and got massively overpaid. Had nothing to do with him getting MS

 

[BHawk21]

Toews on a 42 point pace without scoring in his first 25 games back from a year off. Hes not as terrible as some may portray. He can be a valuable 2nd or 3rd line center to a playoff contender next year if we eat 50%.

 

[AmericanDream]

I can see him joining his buddy Keith in Edmonton next year. Reduced role, not heavily relied upon, can play 3C and be surrounded with some talent. Cap would have to be figured out, but I am sure the Oilers would gladly take him if they try to make that run.