Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

[Sypher04]

Liljegren's defensive game is more impressive/mature than Sandin, but Sandin is the flashier and better offensive defenseman, so he gets more attention. I think both are developing very well and the argument for one vs the other in terms of NHL play is more a matter of style of game needed than current level of ability

 

[Fogelhund]

This organization hasn't done much "having a look at a player" this season, it's been mostly promotions due to injury. I think it could also be about not disrupting what they have this close to playoffs.

I don't get the harm in giving the kid a game just to have a look so his first game isn't mid playoffs as an injury call-up.

As per above, there are salary cap considerations, which might be keeping him out.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We need to get Lily and Hutton into some games down da stretch .. imperative for a playoff team looking for a deep run to have minimum 8/9 guys ready to go .. folks in playoffs D men get hurt .. it is da way it goes .. Bogo may not come back who knows ... someone will take one on da foot and they will be gone too .. we need to be prepared like Tampa was

 

[cipher]

We need to get Lily and Hutton into some games down da stretch .. imperative for a playoff team looking for a deep run to have minimum 8/9 guys ready to go .. folks in playoffs D men get hurt .. it is da way it goes .. Bogo may not come back who knows ... someone will take one on da foot and they will be gone too .. we need to be prepared like Tampa was

As repeated earlier, there are salary cap considerations, which might be keeping him out.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

As repeated earlier, there are salary cap considerations, which might be keeping him out.

We got da smartest CAP guy in business on our squad .. he figures out everything .. he needs to do his thing again now .. no excuses

 

[cipher]

We got da smartest CAP guy in business on our squad .. he figures out everything .. he needs to do his thing again now .. no excuses

Good idea. Anyone got his email address so we can let him know what he's got to do?

 

[VanW27]

Salary cap was an issue keeping him out earlier in the season, I'm sure that's what Keefe is referring to. They would have liked to get him some games earlier in the season, especially those west coast trips he was on the taxi squad for, but they couldn't due to cap issues.

That not an issue anymore, his cap hit is $30k less than Sandin's, so if Sandin can fit so can Liljegren. In fact even with Robertson and Sandin on the roster and healthy scratched instead of sent down to the taxi squad we still have enough space to call him up right now.

That said, no way you take out Sandin after his last couple games and they are going to need to get Hutton into a couple games to keep him ready for the playoffs too. Kinda just unfortunate circumstances for Liljegrin, they couldn't play him earlier due to cap issues and our D was remarkably healthy so no opportunities there. Now there is an opportunity and Sandin has snatched it while the new guy needs some games too.

I'm thinking the only way he gets in at this point is if they consistently run a Hutton-Lilegren pair in practice and then swap them out for the Sandin-Dermott pair for a game or 2 (maybe game 2 of the back to back next Thursday?).

 

[stickty111]

Maybe he knows his upside and thinks it very limited. At this point if we got him to be Dermott I would be happy...but I doubt he even becomes a 3rd pairing guy. His mental clock is too slow for the NHL IMO. That is his biggest flaw.

Completely incorrect. It doesn't matter though. People still like to judge on him pre draft reports.

Also Keefe literally praised Liljegren so the "he knows his upside is limited" just went out the window. Plus Elliotte said that Leafs told teams Liljegren was off limits, so safe to say they know his upside is high.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Salary cap was an issue keeping him out earlier in the season, I'm sure that's what Keefe is referring to. They would have liked to get him some games earlier in the season, especially those west coast trips he was on the taxi squad for, but they couldn't due to cap issues.

That not an issue anymore, his cap hit is $30k less than Sandin's, so if Sandin can fit so can Liljegren. In fact even with Robertson and Sandin on the roster and healthy scratched instead of sent down to the taxi squad we still have enough space to call him up right now.

That said, no way you take out Sandin after his last couple games and they are going to need to get Hutton into a couple games to keep him ready for the playoffs too. Kinda just unfortunate circumstances for Liljegrin, they couldn't play him earlier due to cap issues and our D was remarkably healthy so no opportunities there. Now there is an opportunity and Sandin has snatched it while the new guy needs some games too.

I'm thinking the only way he gets in at this point is if they consistently run a Hutton-Lilegren pair in practice and then swap them out for the Sandin-Dermott pair for a game or 2 (maybe game 2 of the back to back next Thursday?).

Actually it is in issue
there are only 4 callups allowed post TDL from taxi squad/AHL.
Likely trying to leave room for getting Andersen some games before end of season.

 

[stickty111]

Liljegren's defensive game is more impressive/mature than Sandin, but Sandin is the flashier and better offensive defenseman, so he gets more attention. I think both are developing very well and the argument for one vs the other in terms of NHL play is more a matter of style of game needed than current level of ability

This was clear from the AHL. Both should be great players. I don't know why fans needs to make up weaknesse of the other player though.

 

[Fogelhund]

This was clear from the AHL. Both should be great players. I don't know why fans needs to make up weaknesse of the other player though.

Patience, or a lack of. He isn't in the NHL.. he must be a bust... people haven't watched him in one AHL game though, and comment that he isn't very good. I haven't seen many AHL games this year, but when I watched last year, it just looked like he was so superior to most of the other players on the ice, that it was ridiculous. But, that took time... like I've said above, and you liked it.. this is a kid who needs an adjustment period. Find the right vet to mentor him next year, and give him rope. Be patient... don't yank him when he struggles, and he's going to... but at some point, it's going to click, and by mid year next year, both Sandin and Liljegren will look like top 4 NHL D.

 

[freshwind]

Salary cap was an issue keeping him out earlier in the season, I'm sure that's what Keefe is referring to. They would have liked to get him some games earlier in the season, especially those west coast trips he was on the taxi squad for, but they couldn't due to cap issues.

That not an issue anymore, his cap hit is $30k less than Sandin's, so if Sandin can fit so can Liljegren. In fact even with Robertson and Sandin on the roster and healthy scratched instead of sent down to the taxi squad we still have enough space to call him up right now.

That said, no way you take out Sandin after his last couple games and they are going to need to get Hutton into a couple games to keep him ready for the playoffs too. Kinda just unfortunate circumstances for Liljegrin, they couldn't play him earlier due to cap issues and our D was remarkably healthy so no opportunities there. Now there is an opportunity and Sandin has snatched it while the new guy needs some games too.

I'm thinking the only way he gets in at this point is if they consistently run a Hutton-Lilegren pair in practice and then swap them out for the Sandin-Dermott pair for a game or 2 (maybe game 2 of the back to back next Thursday?).

cap is an issue ... the fact that lily has performance bonuses is keeping him out of the lineup ... a team has to account for the full bonuses under the cap, even if they are unattainable ... rasmus has no bonuses . AND it is why amirov said he did not want any bonuses in order to make it an easier path to the nhl ... his aav is 1,263,333 with bonuses and there is also something about bonuses and ltir but i do not recall the details ...

 

[Stonehands1990]

As per above, there are salary cap considerations, which might be keeping him out.

He has performance bonuses that can potentially bump his cap hit up to 1.3 AAV. I believe bonuses get paid the following year but there’s no point accruing them if we don’t need to

 

[VanW27]

He has performance bonuses that can potentially bump his cap hit up to 1.3 AAV. I believe bonuses get paid the following year but there’s no point accruing them if we don’t need to

All bonus requirements are pretty high and most have a minimum games requirement (42 in a normal season, presumably 29 this season). The ones that dont have a minimum games requirement are:
- Win Norris/Hart/Richard/Conn Smythe
- 1st or 2nd team all star
- All rookie team
- All star team selection
- All star game mvp

Hes not hitting any of those

 

[Golden_Jet]

What bonuses could be met with 8 games left

 

[freshwind]

you do not have to have attainable bonuses ... whether he can hit them or not means nothing .... you have to account for the entire bonus under the cap to add someone from the minors ... his aav is 1,263,333 for this season vs 800 and change for rasmus ...

 

[Golden_Jet]

you do not have to have attainable bonuses ... whether he can hit them or not means nothing .... you have to account for the entire bonus under the cap to add someone from the minors ... his aav is 1,263,333 for this season vs 800 and change for rasmus ...

Okay, then they must of got rid of the carry over then.

 

[Morbo]

Still hoping he makes it. anytime you spend a 1st round pick on a guy you have pretty high hopes...but if those aren't met, you have to hope he at least becomes an NHL player.

 

[VanW27]

Actually it is in issue
there are only 4 callups allowed post TDL from taxi squad/AHL.
Likely trying to leave room for getting Andersen some games before end of season.

Neither of those things have anything to do with the cap.

 

[freshwind]

Okay, then they must of got rid of the carry over then.

actually, the rule is actually kind of convoluted ... you need the money day 1 I believe, but if you go over the cap later it gets carried over? or if you go in to ltir it carries over if earned regardless of the amount
not 100% sure of all the details, but it is why most guys that are not shoo-ins to earn it (guys like matthews) do not want the performance bonuses, a signing bonus is far more beneficial and does not mess up the aav during an elc
i hate commenting on it because it is so messed up and i don't have the patience to read the cba LOL

 

[stickty111]

Patience, or a lack of. He isn't in the NHL.. he must be a bust... people haven't watched him in one AHL game though, and comment that he isn't very good. I haven't seen many AHL games this year, but when I watched last year, it just looked like he was so superior to most of the other players on the ice, that it was ridiculous. But, that took time... like I've said above, and you liked it.. this is a kid who needs an adjustment period. Find the right vet to mentor him next year, and give him rope. Be patient... don't yank him when he struggles, and he's going to... but at some point, it's going to click, and by mid year next year, both Sandin and Liljegren will look like top 4 NHL D.

Agreed. I'm not calling you out or anything, but I remember you called him an average prospect, and now you are high on him. Why the change in opinion on him? Again just wondering.

 

[Richardbro]

Overall I think the Leafs organization has somewhat mishandled Liljegren. He should absolutely be playing right now and should have over 50 games played already. He is a solid prospect and has developed quite nicely. Was a huge fan of him before he was drafted too. This dude will absolutely help our power play.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Neither of those things have anything to do with the cap.

Neither of those things have anything to do with the cap.

Actually they do, I’ll try and explain the easier one, to bring Andersen back from LTIR they need some cap room, so they can’t go spending extra money to put others in the lineup, or counting against the cap. Actually they’re both intertwined in a way.

If you don’t care that Andersen get any games before playoffs, then it doesn’t matter.

 

[Ciao]

Actually they do, I’ll try and explain the easier one, to bring Andersen back from LTIR they need some cap room, so they can’t go spending extra money to put others in the lineup, or counting against the cap. Actually they’re both intertwined in a way.

If you don’t care that Andersen get any games before playoffs, then it doesn’t matter.

I don't understand the bonus thing at all, but I don't see the Andersen connection either.

The Leafs are using LTIR. They can't accrue any cap space. How does not playing Liljegren help them to have enough cap space to bring Andersen back off LTIR?

I certainly don't get that.

 

[VanW27]

Actually they do, I’ll try and explain the easier one, to bring Andersen back from LTIR they need some cap room, so they can’t go spending extra money to put others in the lineup, or counting against the cap. Actually they’re both intertwined in a way.

If you don’t care that Andersen get any games before playoffs, then it doesn’t matter.

We're in LTIR, you cant bank any unused space under the LTIR ceiling to save for Andersen later so it makes no difference how close we are to the ceiling.

Further, if Andersen is coming back before the end of the regular season we will be forced to run a bare minimum roster to be cap compliant. In that scenario we cant make any recalls anyway unless it's an emergency recall, and those dont count towards the 4.