Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

[AreBe]

A blessing in disguise that they get a chance to look at him prior to the deadline.

Will help plan more longterm to see what he does the rest of the way.

You are not suggesting the Leafs go back to trading young talent in some crazy all-in "get that veteran with the tron ACLs that won the cup 15 years ago! Remember how awesome he was before all that surgery? Got to give something up to get something, and if that means parting with a high skilled and athletic young European for a grizzled veteran, you do it!" Burke / Ballard tragedy?

Trying to remember the last time the Leafs parting with skill for not skill back worked out.

Trying to remember the last time trading youth for injuries worked out.

Am sick of seeing our players hoist cups elsewhere.

 

[JEI]

You are not suggesting the Leafs go back to trading young talent in some crazy all-in "get that veteran with the tron ACLs that won the cup 15 years ago! Remember how awesome he was before all that surgery? Got to give something up to get something, and if that means parting with a high skilled and athletic young European for a grizzled veteran, you do it!" Burke / Ballard tragedy?

Trying to remember the last time the Leafs parting with skill for not skill back worked out.

Trying to remember the last time trading youth for injuries worked out.

Am sick of seeing our players hoist cups elsewhere.

No. The opposite actually.

 

[AreBe]

No. The opposite actually.

Awesome! No trades can be much better than drumming out kids for torn ACLs.

 

[Merrrlin]

Teams don't trade 20 year old RD that are NHL ready. It just doesn't happen.

You trade Liljegren, you better be getting that guy who plays 25 mins beside Reilly with some control.

If we're big game hunting for top 4 D, I'd rather look for players we can acquire with our depth upfront, personally.

If we escape this trade deadline with our core + Sandin, Lilly, Robertson, Woll...I'll be pretty excited.

 

[Legion34]

Lily is going to be a top 4 RHD. A Kenny Johnson. Stralman with offense type.

 

[Clark4Ever]

He hasn't looked out of place at all. In fact, he's looked better than some of our regulars on the blueline, albeit in sheltered minutes.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Watching Liljegren zipping laser passes right on the tape and his awareness is going to be fun to watch in a short time. The guy is poised and smart

 

[Wafflewhipper]

liljegren needs to watch 2000 hours of Cale Makar playing hockey on his vhs cassette recorder!

I don’t even think Makar is 2000 hours old is he!

 

[Einzakin]

Seems like he makes good plays and makes bad plays. I'm more convinced of his upside after the last couple games but I worry he makes Gardiner type mistakes too often. I'll chalk that up to being young, as all young players do that. He needs to correct his bonehead plays and I think we have a keeper on our hands.

 

[stickty111]

Why wouldn't he just watch Mac's tape ? A better hockey player on his very own team.

Or he can do that. He should if he wants to improve.

 

[Walshy7]

Not sure how u can say that given that Liljegren has played 3 NHL games. Also thats the biggest issue ive had with Liljegren in the last 3 years, his decision making has been wild. He would do something so head scratching that it would really make u wonder about his upside.

Change liljegren to dermott and this post sums up dermott perfectly

Dermott is a horrendous decision maker, he makes the stupidest possible decision out of all presented to him when he has the puck. Gets himself in trouble constantly when he has the puck, and gets teh team in trouble constantly when he doesnt have it. He is so easy for opposiiton players to get him out of position its quite laughable really. Dermott is goin to struggle to be any more than a #4 dman at absolute best, he is a classic "tools no toolbox" player

 

[DarkKnight]

Change liljegren to dermott and this post sums up dermott perfectly

Dermott is a horrendous decision maker, he makes the stupidest possible decision out of all presented to him when he has the puck. Gets himself in trouble constantly when he has the puck, and gets teh team in trouble constantly when he doesnt have it. He is so easy for opposiiton players to get him out of position its quite laughable really. Dermott is goin to struggle to be any more than a #4 dman at absolute best, he is a classic "tools no toolbox" player

This Dermott take isn’t wrong, but it amazes me. Rewind to when Dermott came up, and really before the injury, his biggest asset was the deft little hockey IQ plays he made. Dermott played so smart and actually made his partners better. I’m not sure what is going on with him, clearly plateaued this year and his confidence is low. I’m not writing him off yet, he’s shown flashes, but for me he really needs to get stronger to be top 4, he’s hasn’t filled out one iota the past couple of years.

 

[Walshy7]

This Dermott take isn’t wrong, but it amazes me. Rewind to when Dermott came up, and really before the injury, his biggest asset was the smart little hockey IQ plays he made. Dermott played so smart and actually made his partners better. I’m not sure what is going on with him, clearly plateaued this year and his confidence is low. I’m not writing him off yet, he’s shown flashed, but for me he really needs to get stronger to be top 4, he’s hasn’t filled out one iota the past couple of years.

yeah i should have added, i dont want him off the team i like dermott but i i do think the projections of top 4 dman were a little bit too far for him i think he is just going to be an excellent #5 OK #4 dman which is fine but his contract will absolutely have to reflect that.

Perhaps though his earlier seasons with "high IQ" were viewed through a lens of "he is a rookie doing this" and he wasnt that high IQ just compared to his partners he was? i dont know but he certainly makes terrible decisions too often now

 

[GQS]

He hasn't looked out of place at all. In fact, he's looked better than some of our regulars on the blueline, albeit in sheltered minutes.

I wish both he and Sandin could be given more ice time to see if they could handle it and also to give our other Dmen abit more rest during a game. I know we're fighting for a playoff spot and all, but it would be nice to give both these guys a solid audition and see if they're ready for regular NHL duty or if they need more time in the minors.

Give them both like 15 mins or so a game and if they're ready then let them play even in the playoffs and if not then decide what to do next and whether or not you need to trade for one or two Dman.

 

[Merrrlin]

I wish both he and Sandin could be given more ice time to see if they could handle it and also to give our other Dmen abit more rest during a game. I know we're fighting for a playoff spot and all, but it would be nice to give both these guys a solid audition and see if they're ready for regular NHL duty or if they need more time in the minors.

Give them both like 15 mins or so a game and if they're ready then let them play even in the playoffs and if not then decide what to do next and whether or not you need to trade for one or two Dman.

I agree, but Keefe is slowly handing them more minutes in different situations, so I think it will be a slow burn.

I swear I saw Lilly on the PK this weekend.

 

[Orfieus]

I agree, but Keefe is slowly handing them more minutes in different situations, so I think it will be a slow burn.

I swear I saw Lilly on the PK this weekend.

Because he was

He logged 10min total ice time against Montreal in sheltered minutes. Keefe is slowly building up his confidence

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It will take a few years to develop Sandin and Lily. They are both in a massive learning environment right now. Dermy is too but somehow people think defenders just develop overnight. They don't. We got 3 great kids and it 3 years we will look much better on defense.

Holl is still learning too under Muzz. But he is huge too and can skate. But he too is still a year or so from getting his positions correct.

Barrie is whatever. Clearly a bad fit here like with Avs. But he can produce offense but the cost on defense is too high. The more i see him the more I realize we got duped on the Kadri deal. But if we can trade him for a 1st next year and a defensive defender on bottom pairing I would be happy.

 

[stickty111]

I agree, but Keefe is slowly handing them more minutes in different situations, so I think it will be a slow burn.

I swear I saw Lilly on the PK this weekend.

He was on the PK on Friday and looked pretty good too.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

yeah i should have added, i dont want him off the team i like dermott but i i do think the projections of top 4 dman were a little bit too far for him i think he is just going to be an excellent #5 OK #4 dman which is fine but his contract will absolutely have to reflect that.

Perhaps though his earlier seasons with "high IQ" were viewed through a lens of "he is a rookie doing this" and he wasnt that high IQ just compared to his partners he was? i dont know but he certainly makes terrible decisions too often now

I dont think Dermott thinks the game fast enough or is smart enough to excel in a Keefe system where the defenders are so engaged. I too think his ceiling is starting to look like a good #4D which is totally fine and a good 2nd round pick if he is paid accordingly.

Unfortunately I think Dubas and co were counting on Dermott progressing and being able to hammer down that LHD slot on the 2nd pairing. That would allow them to let Muzzin walk if they wanted as there is a long jam at LD but it is looking like that wont happen.

Start of the season I expected Barrie would be resigned due to lack of depth at RD and Muzzin would walk but now I'm thinking the opposite will happen and that puts Dermott in an interesting position.. He needs to learn to play the right side effectively or he wont be here long term

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I dont think Dermott thinks the game fast enough or is smart enough to excel in a Keefe system where the defenders are so engaged. I too think his ceiling is starting to look like a good #4D which is totally fine and a good 2nd round pick if he is paid accordingly.

Unfortunately I think Dubas and co were counting on Dermott progressing and being able to hammer down that LHD slot on the 2nd pairing. That would allow them to let Muzzin walk if they wanted as there is a long jam at LD but it is looking like that wont happen.

Start of the season I expected Barrie would be resigned due to lack of depth at RD and Muzzin would walk but now I'm thinking the opposite will happen and that puts Dermott in an interesting position.. He needs to learn to play the right side effectively or he wont be here long term

Dermy is still a kid learning da ropes. We won't know where things stand with him for a couple more years. He has the tools - skating, shot and toughness factor. He lacks some size no doubt. He lacks enough game experience. He lacks a good vet partner to show him da ropes. If we can get another vet defensive dman then it would really help him.
We really do not do a decent job of helping youngsters on the blue line. and now we have 3 in lineup which is extremely hard for any team to manage. When Rielly gets back putting Dermy on his right will help Dermy. He has played on his right most of his life in hockey.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Muzz Holl
Rielly Dermy
Sandin Lily
and we need to land a couple more defensive defenders for run and playoffs as a couple more injuries likely still

 

[AreBe]

I think that with Dubas at the helm, we are unlikely to revisit past mistakes like listening to Leafs Nation and drumming young skilled players out of town for penalty box sitters.

Trust in Dubas. Trust that he will not move prospects or young kids out at the trade deadline.

 

[LeafGrief]

This Dermott take isn’t wrong, but it amazes me. Rewind to when Dermott came up, and really before the injury, his biggest asset was the deft little hockey IQ plays he made. Dermott played so smart and actually made his partners better. I’m not sure what is going on with him, clearly plateaued this year and his confidence is low. I’m not writing him off yet, he’s shown flashes, but for me he really needs to get stronger to be top 4, he’s hasn’t filled out one iota the past couple of years.

Dermott has been playing with ants in his pants all year. He's got a ferocious case of the yips combined with a burning desire to do absolutely everything he possibly can every shift. He's brilliant at using his edges to beat forecheckers, but that's become his default first choice instead of just making smart and steady passes. He looked so smooth to start off and now he plays like a jitterbug. He still makes those smart little moves to shake off pressure or open a passing lane, but he's added in a whole slew of bad decisions because he's trying so darn hard to be a difference maker. I get the feeling that he's really hard on himself and is frustrated that his game hasn't taken itself to the next level, but he has to calm down if he wants to get there. Strength will help him, but he was a pretty smart player and there's a problem between his ears right now.

 

[Knies iT]

Dermy is still a kid learning da ropes. We won't know where things stand with him for a couple more years. He has the tools - skating, shot and toughness factor. He lacks some size no doubt. He lacks enough game experience. He lacks a good vet partner to show him da ropes. If we can get another vet defensive dman then it would really help him.
We really do not do a decent job of helping youngsters on the blue line. and now we have 3 in lineup which is extremely hard for any team to manage. When Rielly gets back putting Dermy on his right will help Dermy. He has played on his right most of his life in hockey.

Yup. If progression were as linear as this board expects, Sandin would be Bobby Orr by 25 years old.

Reality is that there are plateaus in player development, especially with young defensemen. This is the first period in Dermott's career that we've seen some stagnation and half this board is prepared to trade him. He's shown he can dominate a bottom pairing role, we're now just waiting for him to take that next step to the top 4 and he has every tool to do that. I personally think he is going to be one of the most important cogs on this team's blue line moving forward.

If you think Liljegren and Sandin aren't going to experience the same growing pains over the next few years, you're in for a surprise. Its unfortunate that this fanbase hasn't had the opportunity to watch many home grown defensemen develop over the years (historically, even) because the level of impatience is worrisome.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yup. If progression were as linear as this board expects, Sandin would be Bobby Orr by 25 years old.

Reality is that there are plateaus in player development, especially with young defensemen. This is the first period in Dermott's career that we've seen some stagnation and half this board is prepared to trade him. He's shown he can dominate a bottom pairing role, we're now just waiting for him to take that next step to the top 4 and he has every tool to do that. I personally think he is going to be one of the most important cogs on this team's blue line moving forward.

If you think Liljegren and Sandin aren't going to experience the same growing pains over the next few years, you're in for a surprise. Its unfortunate that this fanbase hasn't had the opportunity to watch many home grown defensemen develop over the years (historically, even) because the level of impatience is worrisome.

What would really suck is we trade him and then he becomes an NHL #1 in a few years. Not saying he will because no one can know. But we got 3 kids now who all need to be developed. I think we have put ourselves in a very very bad position. Muzz is still training Holl for f*c*s sakes. Rielly is just coming into his own now.