Confirmed with Link: Tim Bernhardt Parts Ways With Coyotes

[Vinny Boombatz]

I’m hoping some stars align and we end up with Peyton Krebs somehow. What a combination of motor and wheels at center. Not a Dub guy but I like the videos I’ve seen of Nils Hoglander. Reminds me of vintage Sobotka.

I'm with you RT...Krebs would be perfect, the dude has an unbelievable motor and he's basically a one-man show because his team isn't very good. He would be a great get. Either him or Zegras.

 

[Mosby]

Sounds like Twohey was fired

The growing success of Mitch Marner has not been lost on the Arizona Coyotes. The Coyotes picked Dylan Strome ahead of Marner in the 2015 NHL Draft. Marner is outscoring Strome 149-13 in the league. Since the draft error, the Coyotes have quietly pushed out well known veteran scouts Tim Bernhardt and Jeff Twohey, who were central to the selecting of Strome.

from a Toronto paper

 

[hbk]

Sounds like Twohey was fired



from a Toronto paper

If this is true why did we stick to the OHL with our first rounder last year? Why did we essentially draft so heavily in the OHL?

I have no doubt there is frustration with Strome; however, this is just fiction. More Toronto gloating disguised as news.

Scouts are let go after the draft. Not midseason. This is personality and pride.

 

[lanky]

Twohey leaving at the same time that @SR says Strome is being shopped. The timing is not a coincidence. It would've been cleaner if we saw this play out in the summer. Chayka not willing to wait for next off-season.

 

[Plub]

I actually like that Chayka isn't going to wait on this. Dude is pretty ruthless when it comes to people making mistakes. But boy was Strome as HUGE mistake.

 

[XX]

I actually like that Chayka isn't going to wait on this. Dude is pretty ruthless when it comes to people making mistakes. But boy was Strome as HUGE mistake.

Every organization has highly touted players kicking around that they hope turn out. The difference in the outcomes is usually determined by the amount of faith and positivity shown. 13 games, most of them on the 4th line with nobodies, is neither. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. With more TOI and better wingers he'd have a 40ish point season pretty easily, which is about what most normal young players accomplish. It's only later that they break out into consistent top 6 types. The league is so enamored with Barzal and Matthews types nowadays. Those players are atypical.

By all means cut him free if this is how he is going to be handled. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him added to the list of players successful elsewhere.

 

[CLW]

Twohey leaving at the same time that @SR says Strome is being shopped. The timing is not a coincidence. It would've been cleaner if we saw this play out in the summer. Chayka not willing to wait for next off-season.

The 2015 draft was a bust we are paying for now. We have a lot of warm bodies who look like NHL players when dressed up, but there is hardly any hockey IQ or creativity to speak of. Hardly surprising Coach Tocchet complained about robotic players...

Hindsight is of course hindsight, but we could have ended up with Rantanen for the Strome pick and Aho for the late first round/early second round pick. With Aho and Rantanen on the roster we would look much healthier today. And I doubt this scouting team would have selected Kotkaniemi over Heyton, like Montreal did. Kudos to Chayka for pulling the trigger, it had to be done. The only way forward for the Coyotes is through exceptional drafting.

As for Strome, he may yet succeed, but he needs much more time and he needs better wingers, neither of which we have. I would not be surprised if he has adapted to the NHL in three or four seasons time, but I don't think it will be as the 1st or 2nd line center this team needs.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

I remember attempting to measure when players hit their "real" level in a statistical study I did (probably 10 years ago). I found this usually kicked in after 100 games experience (ie/ 1.5 full seasons). Players who perform at a high level immediately or break out many seasons later are outliers. Most players take time but after a certain amount of time passes are unlikely to improve further.

Keller - 100 games
Fischer - 101
Crouse - 98
Raanta - 148
Perlini - 146
Hinostroza - 121
Oesterle - 92
Connauton - 92
Strome - 42

You can see a few of these improving all the time. Perlini is the main one not developing here :/

Strome should get another 50+ games, hasnt had the anywhere near the same TOI the rest of the roster has had.

 

[lanky]

I would not be surprised if he has adapted to the NHL in three or four seasons time, but I don't think it will be as the 1st or 2nd line center this team needs.

I have no doubt that he will get to that level and that it will be less than two years from now.

 

[rt]

Every organization has highly touted players kicking around that they hope turn out. The difference in the outcomes is usually determined by the amount of faith and positivity shown. 13 games, most of them on the 4th line with nobodies, is neither. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. With more TOI and better wingers he'd have a 40ish point season pretty easily, which is about what most normal young players accomplish. It's only later that they break out into consistent top 6 types. The league is so enamored with Barzal and Matthews types nowadays. Those players are atypical.

By all means cut him free if this is how he is going to be handled. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him added to the list of players successful elsewhere.

I definitely agree with the influence of the self-fulfilling prophecy component of this post. It’s not 100% of the issue obviously, but I think it really influences it. Great post.

 

[hbk]

You could just as easily interpret the departure of our OHL scouts as a commentary on bypassing Zadina for Hayton. Or Quinn Hughes.

Simmons (who pushed this Strome theory) isn't a solid source. He lost much of his credibility with his Kessel hatchet job while he was in TO.

Is it a statement about their performance as scouts or a disagreement in the evolution to our scouting list being more dependent/supported by analytics versus the eye test? When Bernhardt left it was apparent that the concern was philosophy and having a new boss (who supported this philosophy). I don't doubt that this situation with Twohey is the same.

I viewed the Hayton selection as a process pick. That's what we've embraced. My eye test scouting will be challenged.

 

[Jakey53]

Every organization has highly touted players kicking around that they hope turn out. The difference in the outcomes is usually determined by the amount of faith and positivity shown. 13 games, most of them on the 4th line with nobodies, is neither. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. With more TOI and better wingers he'd have a 40ish point season pretty easily, which is about what most normal young players accomplish. It's only later that they break out into consistent top 6 types. The league is so enamored with Barzal and Matthews types nowadays. Those players are atypical.

By all means cut him free if this is how he is going to be handled. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him added to the list of players successful elsewhere.

I agree. It's year four of the rebuild, but I'm forgetting Strome, Fischer. Perlini and Crouse are still kids, some with less than 100 NHL games played, playing a mans game. I really have come down hard on these kids for not shown consistency, which is very hard to do at their age. I have stressed patience with this rebuild, and here I am saying the exact opposite. Maybe I'm getting antsy because I know the vets we have can't lead us to the promise land and our only hope is for the kids to progress at an unreasonable rate. Rebuilds are so frustrating.

 

[Mosby]

If this is true why did we stick to the OHL with our first rounder last year? Why did we essentially draft so heavily in the OHL?

I have no doubt there is frustration with Strome; however, this is just fiction. More Toronto gloating disguised as news.

Scouts are let go after the draft. Not midseason. This is personality and pride.

Could be, but it's not only Marner. It's basically the entire 1st round has outperformed Strome by a huge margin.

There are only 6 first-rounders after Strome who I would not take over Strome, and I'm including Merkley.

Maloney passing on Hamilton/Wennberg+8+Rychel/three Boston 1sts has easily become his biggest mistake as GM.

 

[Mosby]

Dawn Braid is out now too, no? Her big project was Strome and there wasn't/hasn't been enough change there re: skating.

 

[hbk]

Dawn Braid is out now too, no? Her big project was Strome and there wasn't/hasn't been enough change there re: skating.

Should have hired a figure skating coach.

 

[Jakey53]

Dawn Braid is out now too, no? Her big project was Strome and there wasn't/hasn't been enough change there re: skating.

Strome's skating is much improved. Not sure who is responsible, but he is much better. I think his biggest weakness is his balance or lack of muscle to fill out his frame.

 

[cobra427]

Every organization has highly touted players kicking around that they hope turn out. The difference in the outcomes is usually determined by the amount of faith and positivity shown. 13 games, most of them on the 4th line with nobodies, is neither. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. With more TOI and better wingers he'd have a 40ish point season pretty easily, which is about what most normal young players accomplish. It's only later that they break out into consistent top 6 types. The league is so enamored with Barzal and Matthews types nowadays. Those players are atypical.

By all means cut him free if this is how he is going to be handled. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him added to the list of players successful elsewhere.

Its not about points for Strome, its the rest of his game that needs the work. If he's added to the list of players succesful elsewhere, he'll be alone on the list (except for Turris and he wanted out).

 

[rt]

Its not about points for Strome, its the rest of his game that needs the work. If he's added to the list of players succesful elsewhere, he'll be alone on the list (except for Turris and he wanted out).

Domi looks pretty good. DeAngelo and Duclair are off to great starts. I think the Domi thing is for real, at least.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Could be, but it's not only Marner. It's basically the entire 1st round has outperformed Strome by a huge margin.

There are only 6 first-rounders after Strome who I would not take over Strome, and I'm including Merkley.

Maloney passing on Hamilton/Wennberg+8+Rychel/three Boston 1sts has easily become his biggest mistake as GM.

Speaking of the 3 Boston 1sts:

Bruins selected:
13. Zboril
14. Debrusk
15. Senyshyn

Next 3 picks:
16. Barzal
17. Connor
18. Chabot

 

[AZviaNJ]

Domi looks pretty good. DeAngelo and Duclair are off to great starts. I think the Domi thing is for real, at least.

If the Coyotes were sitting at 4-11-1 right now this thread would be on fire. But Domi/Galchenyuk looks like a good deal for both teams, DeAngelo/#7 for Raanta/Stepan was a steal for AZ and Duclair for Panik/Dauphin is also good given Chicago cut ties with Duke and we wouldn't have resigned him.

Most of the guys here have bought into Tocc's system and results are starting to show.....that's the best outcome from these deals.

 

[Plub]

Strome's skating is much improved. Not sure who is responsible, but he is much better. I think his biggest weakness is his balance or lack of muscle to fill out his frame.

And his tendency to hesitate, his slow release, and his inability to assert himself.

 

[AZviaNJ]

And his tendency to hesitate, his slow release, and his inability to assert himself.

I think it speaks to his lack of strength/athleticism....he's easily pushed off the puck, can't win a board battle and doesn't have the ability to compensate.

 

[rt]

And his tendency to hesitate, his slow release, and his inability to assert himself.

Hesitation is maybe the biggest problem. I’d say his tentative nature and hesitation cause many more problems for him than his lack of speed. I honestly think he’s improved his mobility enough and especially gotten so good positionally, that his skating is really not a big problem. I’d rank it behind his lack of strength certainly. Also behind his hesitation problem.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Strome has relied upon his smarts and athletic ability to get him to this point, he is still pencil thin if you see him in person, he doesn't look like someone who has worked out. That tells me he just isn't working hard enough in the offseason, probably because he was focused on his skating, which still needs a little work, but what he needs now more than anything is some strength and balance in order to compete in the battles.

I have faith that Strome will become a 60pt Center who gets 25+ goals a season...and I believe he will get that as soon as next season if he does what he needs to do in the off season. If he doesn't show that next season then I'm willing to cut him loose.

Btw, for all of you that are following Duclair, he's getting less and less minutes. He was down to less than 10 min the last game, so even though he has something like 6 or 7 goals, he is still playing Anthony's way. It won't be long before he is a healthy scratch and then regulated off the team or permanently in the pressbox.

The kid has unbelievable goal scoring ability, but isn't willing to do what the coaches want, so he will find himself sometime within the next couple years playing overseas.

Domi is having a great season...and maybe whatever was wrong with his hand/wrist is no longer an issue and I'm happy for him, but there is "no way" he'd be producing at the rate he is if he were a Coyote plain and simple. Chucky brings a unique skill on the PP and if you haven't noticed, our PP has gone from bottom 3 to top 17 and we're climbing and I believe that with Chucky in the lineup our PP is above 20%. His shot opens up the ice on the PP and we're getting better looks even though the PP as a whole looks discombobulated.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Chucky brings a unique skill on the PP and if you haven't noticed, our PP has gone from bottom 3 to top 17 and we're climbing and I believe that with Chucky in the lineup our PP is above 20%.

22.6% since Oct 23. Good for 9th in that period.