Thoughts on the rebuild?

[supsens]

What are you quoting me and starting this dialogue for then? Has nothing to do with what I and @JD1 were discussing, whatsoever.

Did you confuse what I was saying with something that was relevant to your thoughts?

You are in a open public forum, other people are going to post in them. You should mellow and stop acting like these boards are yours and you get to control all aspects of the conversation. You seem to think putting words in my mouth so you can argue something I did not say is all good and relevent, but if I try to speak....
Anyway debate what I said or don't, thats up to you, but if you act like I said things I didn't say, thats dishonest and I will point it out.

 

[BondraTime]

You are in a open public forum, other people are going to post in them. You should mellow and stop acting like these boards are yours and you get to control all aspects of the conversation. You seem to think putting words in my mouth so you can argue something I did not say is all good and relevent, but if I try to speak....
Anyway debate what I said or don't, thats up to you, but if you act like I said things I didn't say, thats dishonest and I will point it out.

Sure, post away. Never said anything about not posting. Where are you getting that? When someone quotes and directs things at me, I'm going to respond in kind...if you don't want me to dissect them, don't quote me.

Also never put any words in your mouth whatsoever, on the contrary you did . You are the one who quoted me and started up a debate about something that I never even mentioned or had any intention of saying anything about. You're the one starting an argument over something that didn't exist if you'd like to go back and look. I'm not the one responding and starting a non-existent dialogue.

Can you quote me where I put words in your mouth, or are you going to skirt that question as you skirted the last 2 questions I asked?

When you post things that are completely irrelevant and not even remotely being discussed, I'm going to point it out.

You should mellow out and stop acting like these boards are and try to control all aspects

 

[supsens]

Sure, post away. Never said anything about not posting. Where are you getting that? When someone quotes and directs things at me, I'm going to respond in kind...if you don't want me to dissect them, don't quote me.

Also never put any words in your mouth whatsoever, on the contrary you did . You are the one who quoted me and started up a debate about something that I never even mentioned or had any intention of saying anything about. You're the one starting an argument over something that didn't exist if you'd like to go back and look. I'm not the one responding and starting a non-existent dialogue.

Can you quote me where I put words in your mouth, or are you going to skirt that question as you skirted the last 2 questions I asked?

When you post things that are completely irrelevant and not even remotely being discussed, I'm going to point it out.

You should mellow out and stop acting like these boards are and try to control all aspects

You were talking about trading players away the second they don't sign I explained why the cant do that.
Then for some reason you started acting like I said SJ should have traded him? Im fairly sure thats putting words in my mouth to argue something I didnt say.

 

[BondraTime]

You were talking about trading players away the second they don't sign I explained why the cant do that.
Then for some reason you started acting like I said SJ should have traded him? Im fairly sure thats putting words in my mouth to argue something I didnt say.

We were discussing when players are for sure not signing (Not extending in a UFA year and signing a 1 year deal straight to UFA) and when we know they are not going to sign and when teams need to move on

You keep saying "Well I guess SJ GM and owner are garbage...because Karlsson isn't signed yet.

A. If you can't see the difference in these situations I don't know what to tell you.

B. I brought up SJ not trading EK because you brought, and keep bringing up EK and SJ's contract in a conversation where we were talking about trading guys who won't be resigning. Difference being 1 team is competing and 1 team is 31st. When you bring up EK and SJ not having an extension in a conversation people are having about when to trade guys who won't sign, what do you expect?

C. We were discussing Stone and Duchene, not Karlsson, nor were we saying that MGMT and owner were terrible (I think they are, but that wasn't being discussed as the reason they weren't signing) is the reason they never signed.

Putting words in peoples mouths is "I guess SJ's GM and owner are garbage"...

 

[supsens]

We were discussing when players are for sure not signing (Not extending in a UFA year and signing a 1 year deal straight to UFA) and when we know they are not going to sign and when teams need to move on

You keep saying "Well I guess SJ GM and owner are garbage...because Karlsson isn't signed yet.

A. If you can't see the difference in these situations I don't know what to tell you.

B. I brought up SJ not trading EK because you brought, and keep bringing up EK and SJ's contract in a conversation where we were talking about trading guys who won't be resigning. Difference being 1 team is competing and 1 team is 31st. When you bring up EK and SJ not having an extension in a conversation people are having about when to trade guys who won't sign, what do you expect?

C. We were discussing Stone and Duchene, not Karlsson, nor were we saying that MGMT and owner were terrible (I think they are, but that wasn't being discussed as the reason they weren't signing) is the reason they never signed.

Putting words in peoples mouths is "I guess SJ's GM and owner are garbage"...

Yes you were taking about two x players and I brought up a third, how dare I. Anyway I said "I guess" so no those are not words in your mouth.

 

[solidprospect]

 

[BondraTime]

Yes you were taking about two x players and I brought up a third, how dare I. Anyway I said "I guess" so no those are not words in your mouth.

Cheers

 

[coladin]

If the Sens organization was serous about the offers then they clearly have money and there is no reason to go bargain bin shopping on a President and a Coach

We don’t know if they are bin shopping . We should get some good hires, hopefully.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Brucies article;
GARRIOCH: There’s no shortage of work to do for Senators before training camp in September
Again lots of rose coloured glasses optimism being pushed.

Best thing in the article on Ceci "If he doesn’t sign a contract that’s four or five years in length, there’s a good chance he’ll be dealt." He should definitely be going for longer term.

Very Encouraging - "Veterans Mark Borowiecki, Craig Anderson, Zack Smith, Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Bobby Ryan are expected to play big roles next year. Defenceman Dylan DeMelo and centre Chris Tierney, acquired in the deal with the Sharks for Erik Karlsson in September, will be expected to step up to help lead the way." - yuk no more please no more

 

[Ouroboros]

"Veterans Mark Borowiecki, Craig Anderson, Zack Smith, Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Bobby Ryan are expected to play big roles next year. Defenceman Dylan DeMelo and centre Chris Tierney, acquired in the deal with the Sharks for Erik Karlsson in September, will be expected to step up to help lead the way.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We need an elite high-end forward if we wanna be contenders and not pretenders. Gotta bottom out one more year to get Lundel or Laferniere.

 

[BonkTastic]

Because they were planning it for a long time?

Do you think they don't have a white board that contains a "stone won't sign" scenario?

You know what?

I'm tired of arguing points here with people who need to look for extreme side cases, who refuse to ever admit that their favorite team might ever do a bad thing, like admitting to someone else's fault will somehow affect them personally.

I mean, I specifically addressed this in my earlier points, and yet you missed the entire point of the debate... but I'm tired. This 2-year argument with literally the same 3 people has drained me to the point where I just don't even care anymore. You win. The team is perfect, and they've never purposefully ever misrepresented anything , ever. In fact, the idea that this team would lie about anything is preposterous.

You win. Enjoy.

 

[aragorn]

Brucies article;
GARRIOCH: There’s no shortage of work to do for Senators before training camp in September
Again lots of rose coloured glasses optimism being pushed.

Best thing in the article on Ceci "If he doesn’t sign a contract that’s four or five years in length, there’s a good chance he’ll be dealt." He should definitely be going for longer term.

Very Encouraging - "Veterans Mark Borowiecki, Craig Anderson, Zack Smith, Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Bobby Ryan are expected to play big roles next year. Defenceman Dylan DeMelo and centre Chris Tierney, acquired in the deal with the Sharks for Erik Karlsson in September, will be expected to step up to help lead the way." - yuk no more please no more

What I took away from that article was that they are going to go with the players they still have under contract going into next season but they will try & improve & move certain players (vets) who can be moved, if any teams are interested in them. I took that to mean same as this yr where they try to trade the players who will be UFAs next season & continue to stock pile picks & prospects from those trades. Sticking with those vets probably means they are going to try & tank next season to get into the 2020 lottery draft & trade the UFAs off during the yr leading up to the trade deadline & replace them with their NHL ready prospects.

They will take the assets they have now to the draft & use what they need to get the players they have targeted & if they can't get certain players signed to team friendly contracts they will look to move them for more or other assets. I think next yr is a write off for this org while they continue to rebuild & add young players through the draft or young prospects through trades. Just more of the same next season, I guess.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[BatherSeason]

The AHL team not making the playoffs seems like a pretty bad thing for the rebuild and for the Troy Mann coaching candidacy.

 

[JD1]

You know what?

I'm tired of arguing points here with people who need to look for extreme side cases, who refuse to ever admit that their favorite team might ever do a bad thing, like admitting to someone else's fault will somehow affect them personally.

I mean, I specifically addressed this in my earlier points, and yet you missed the entire point of the debate... but I'm tired. This 2-year argument with literally the same 3 people has drained me to the point where I just don't even care anymore. You win. The team is perfect, and they've never purposefully ever misrepresented anything , ever. In fact, the idea that this team would lie about anything is preposterous.

You win. Enjoy.

You're tired?

I'm tired of arguIng points here with people that must find extreme fault in everything the team does. The dIfference between your type and me is i find fault and acknowledge fault in things the team does ALL THE TIME.

And lets be super clear here Bonk. You and yours won. You drove away people that wanted to talk hockey and by and large it's just you venters left.

Next time someone starts a post with "i dont post here much anymore" sit back, light a cigar, smile and enjoy the victory

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You're tired?

I'm tired of arguIng points here with people that must find extreme fault in everything the team does. The dIfference between your type and me is i find fault and acknowledge fault in things the team does ALL THE TIME.

And lets be super clear here Bonk. You and yours won. You drove away people that wanted to talk hockey and by and large it's just you venters left.

Next time someone starts a post with "i dont post here much anymore" sit back, light a cigar, smile and enjoy the victory

Don't want to butt into this .. but I don't think its fair to characterize Bonk like that. Overall I think he is one of the most intelligent, thoughtful and thorough posters and I think he's fair, certainly, for the most part. I certainly would not hang the "yours" on him and I would not hang the loss of quality posters on him in anyway.

Its ok to disagree on some of these points on how we are being run and the club hasn't done themselves a lot of favors to get fans (beyond casual) in general ... not just on here to remain supportive and positive.

 

[Liver King]

Is Dorion fired yet?

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Let's see who they hire as the coach before making a decision.

 

[Que]

Imagine if we had hired anyone other than Guy Boucher.

So cruel.

 

[Sweatred]

What I took away from that article was that they are going to go with the players they still have under contract going into next season but they will try & improve & move certain players (vets) who can be moved, if any teams are interested in them. I took that to mean same as this yr where they try to trade the players who will be UFAs next season & continue to stock pile picks & prospects from those trades. Sticking with those vets probably means they are going to try & tank next season to get into the 2020 lottery draft & trade the UFAs off during the yr leading up to the trade deadline & replace them with their NHL ready prospects.

They will take the assets they have now to the draft & use what they need to get the players they have targeted & if they can't get certain players signed to team friendly contracts they will look to move them for more or other assets. I think next yr is a write off for this org while they continue to rebuild & add young players through the draft or young prospects through trades. Just more of the same next season, I guess.

I hope so - is there anything of value left on this team? CT and CC may fetch a second pick ?

 

[JD1]

Don't want to butt into this .. but I don't think its fair to characterize Bonk like that. Overall I think he is one of the most intelligent, thoughtful and thorough posters and I think he's fair, certainly, for the most part. I certainly would not hang the "yours" on him and I would not hang the loss of quality posters on him in anyway.

Its ok to disagree on some of these points on how we are being run and the club hasn't done themselves a lot of favors to get fans (beyond casual) in general ... not just on here to remain supportive and positive.

Hey...i think Bonk is an intelligent and thorough poster too. I've even commented on it here in the past. Just like i've commented about things i don't agree with coming from the team.

This particular debate stems from the view that an issue is either a or b. To be honest in this instance i'm having trouble equating intelligent and thorough with being unwilling to think that there may be multiple rebuild plans based on who signs what.

Bonk's pissed off because i don't agree with his view. But as you said...he is intelligent and he has a big vocabulary....so his response to it was being a bit more creative...i fed a lot of his words back him.

He wants to put me in a narrow box of agreeing with everything coming from the team, which is notably not true, because i disagree with him.

You used the word fair. I'll tell you what is fair...fair is analyzing a particular situation and not going from zero to the most negative intrepretation possible in the blink of an eye. Fair would not be categorizing me as a blind supporter of everything the team does.

It is ok to disagree. Consider that Bonk's post that i responded to was his response to me disagreeing with him.

As for my suggestion that people are leaving....well micklebot told me over a year ago that he didn't have access to stats on unique posters daily, weekly etc but it's pretty obvious....especially when you see guys acknowledging it in their posts "i don't post much here anymore..."

Cheers...

 

[operasen]

Getting a good coach here in Ottawa who can integrate the young guns is important, but it should be the same deal for Belleville.

If indeed we are going to let Norris, Formenton, Brown, Batherson, Chlapik, Brunnstrom, etc stay there and learn to dominate, I'm not sure Mann is the answer. They need a good tactician, but also a solid development guy. Teach this group to win. Then add them up top. I have not seen the consistent dominance yet from any of them..

Paul and Englund type of players have been there long enough and should get a chance with the club. Fish or cut bait.

 

[harrisb]

Getting a good coach here in Ottawa who can integrate the young guns is important, but it should be the same deal for Belleville.

If indeed we are going to let Norris, Formenton, Brown, Batherson, Chlapik, Brunnstrom, etc stay there and learn to dominate, I'm not sure Mann is the answer. They need a good tactician, but also a solid development guy. Teach this group to win. Then add them up top. I have not seen the consistent dominance yet from any of them..

Paul and Englund type of players have been there long enough and should get a chance with the club. Fish or cut bait.

If Mann is on a multi year contract I'm sure they'll just promote him to AGM or POHO, that's how we roll

 

[BonkTastic]

Imagine if we had hired anyone other than Guy Boucher.

So cruel.

We could have hired Mike Yeo, and been in the same place we are today.

There were lots of bad choices for coach. We just picked the one who most resembles a bond villain. "Hiring anyone else" isn't the thing that would have fixed this team. It has to be the right guy... but the "right" guy usually costs $$$, so we're more likely than not going to hire the "wrong" guy again this summer.