Thoughts on the Rebuild? PART 3

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I'm team Stay the Course, with a few tweaks around the edges. A good pipeline of incoming talent is important, but we should also be careful not to overdo it. It's not the time yet to push all the chips in, but that time is coming soon — maybe a year or two. For now, this team needs to build chemistry and nurture a winning atmosphere and culture in the locker room, which it's well on its way to doing.

 

[HSF]

Its best to go all in now. You don't get too many cracks at the cup when your young talent is on decent contracts. The cap crunch will get this team soon and we will lose talent. The crowd that is saying to wait ....that might have worked before the cap era but there is a finite contention window.

Pipeline is important but we should be fine if we continue to draft well

 

[GCK]

Its best to go all in now. You don't get too many cracks at the cup when your young talent is on decent contracts. The cap crunch will get this team soon and we will lose talent. The crowd that is saying to wait ....that might have worked before the cap era but there is a finite contention window.

Pipeline is important but we should be fine if we continue to draft well

We wouldn’t be a Cup contender this year with a prime EK. Norris, Stu, Pinto need experience, they only have 125, 132 and 17 NHL games respectively under their belts. This is a big year to continue to develop and hopefully make a real playoff push.

 

[Xspyrit]

And if we make the playoffs this year?

If we make the playoffs then it's not that bad, 6 years is close to the new 5 years "norm"

I would have thought having massive assets like EK, Mark Stone and Duchene in their prime would have given us a serious boost over regular rebuilds but in the end it didn't for several reasons. Wish we could have been in the playoffs race for most of the last 2 seasons instead of being basically eliminated after 20 little games

But if we make the playoffs this year, we will partially catch up the wasted time since we wouldn't need a transitional year where we get close to making the playoffs before making it

But there's certainly a lot of pressure on us. Most of our young players are approaching the mid 20's (Chabot turns 26 this year, ouch) and the thing you really really don't want is to look like the Devils and Sabres everlasting rebuilds.

 

[HSF]

If we make the playoffs then it's not that bad, 6 years is close to the new 5 years "norm"

I would have thought having massive assets like EK, Mark Stone and Duchene in their prime would have given us a serious boost over regular rebuilds but in the end it didn't for several reasons. Wish we could have been in the playoffs race for most of the last 2 seasons instead of being basically eliminated after 20 little games

But if we make the playoffs this year, we will partially catch up the wasted time since we wouldn't need a transitional year where we get close to making the playoffs before making it

But there's certainly a lot of pressure on us. Most of our young players are approaching the mid 20's (Chabot turns 26 this year, ouch) and the thing you really really don't want is to look like the Devils and Sabres everlasting rebuilds.

Agree with this

Moves like debrincat and grioux and shooting josh brown in the sun are the type of moves we should have been making the last few years


Glad to see it’s happening now. The defence needs to be fixed though

Last year we were behind in the rebuild
This year we have caught up but still need improvement

 

[Xspyrit]

Agree with this

Moves like debrincat and grioux and shooting josh brown in the sun are the type of moves we should have been making the last few years


Glad to see it’s happening now. The defence needs to be fixed though

Last year we were behind in the rebuild
This year we have caught up but still need improvement

Winning in the NHL is pretty hard, not only you need several good players but you also carefully need to NOT have too many Tierneys, Zaitsieves, Stepans, Reillys, Gudbransons, Gaudettes, Sanfords, and especially Josh Brownies

 

[HSF]

Winning in the NHL is pretty hard, not only you need several good players but you also carefully need to NOT have too many Tierneys, Zaitsieves, Stepans, Reillys, Gudbransons, Gaudettes, Sanfords, and especially Josh Brownies

Ourf that list is tough

A lot of the best team don’t have crappy players on crappy contracts .

 

[Xspyrit]

Ourf that list is tough

A lot of the best team don’t have crappy players on crappy contracts .

When they have, it's their 13th forward or 7th/8th D-man

Oh and by the way, I didn't name everyone... like Paquette, Coburn, Galchenyuk, etc

 

[HSF]

When they have, it's their 13th forward or 7th/8th D-man

Oh and by the way, I didn't name everyone... like Paquette, Coburn, Galchenyuk, etc

Hey man it’s all part of Dorions plan

 

[Cosmix]

Hey man it’s all part of Dorions plan

He has had multiple plans. And l expect he still has multiple plans.

We wouldn’t be a Cup contender this year with a prime EK. Norris, Stu, Pinto need experience, they only have 125, 132 and 17 NHL games respectively under their belts. This is a big year to continue to develop and hopefully make a real playoff push.

If the team is in the fight for a playoff spot in May, then progress will have been made.

 

[guyzeur]

He has had multiple plans. And l expect he still has multiple plans.


If the team is in the fight for a playoff spot in May, then progress will have been made.

May or did you mean March?

 

[Loach]

Not sure is this belongs here, but what are everybodies thoughts on how much of the rookies camp and preseason we get to see this year? If I remember correctly coverage has been very light the last few seasons. I'm hoping we get a bunch and flood our souls with hockey.

 

[Cosmix]

May or did you mean March?

They both started with "M" so I was close! Yes. March.

Not sure is this belongs here, but what are everybodies thoughts on how much of the rookies camp and preseason we get to see this year? If I remember correctly coverage has been very light the last few seasons. I'm hoping we get a bunch and flood our souls with hockey.

You are an irrational optimist.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Stay the course and win now are mostly the same thing. Staying the course brought us here and we're very close to win now.

I'd say this as well, but I'd express it a bit differently.

Rebuilds are cyclical and follow a pattern. We are at that "next stage" now where our young prospects are coming to fruition, and their contracts are increasing with the progression from ELC to RFA.

Now that we are in that phase, we'll need to navigate it with our players just getting older, wiser and stronger, and the odd improvements or addition from the outside. Unfortunately, all of this will have to done within the constraints of the cap, or our budget if we operate below the ceiling.

Of course, that isn't easy to do. They will have to identify the core, and we will see a few pieces from the roster go, hopefully from just the middle of the roster mostly. And, a good way to fill those roster holes will be with a steady stream of ELCs coming through the pipeline. If most of the holes can be filled this way, that will be good as it takes a delicate balance and staying away from making costly mistakes when adding from the outside (free agent & trades).

 

[Hale The Villain]

If DeBrincat re-signs or is willing to re-sign if we acquire a top 4 D like Chychrun (making this team a legit contender immediately and arguably for the next 3 years), I'd pull the trigger on a deal based around the 2023 1st, Jarventie/Sogaard and additional picks/prospects + Zaitsev.

I wouldn't go all-in with an acquisition like Chychrun unless DeBrincat is staying long-term. If we trade for Chychrun and then take a step back the following season after having to trade DeBrincat due to him not willing to re-sign, we'll look pretty stupid.

 

[JD1]

I'd say this as well, but I'd express it a bit differently.

Rebuilds are cyclical and follow a pattern. We are at that "next stage" now where our young prospects are coming to fruition, and their contracts are increasing with the progression from ELC to RFA.

Now that we are in that phase, we'll need to navigate it with our players just getting older, wiser and stronger, and the odd improvements or addition from the outside. Unfortunately, all of this will have to done within the constraints of the cap, or our budget if we operate below the ceiling.

Of course, that isn't easy to do. They will have to identify the core, and we will see a few pieces from the roster go, hopefully from just the middle of the roster mostly. And, a good way to fill those roster holes will be with a steady stream of ELCs coming through the pipeline. If most of the holes can be filled this way, that will be good as it takes a delicate balance and staying away from making costly mistakes when adding from the outside (free agent & trades).

NHL hockey isn't very predictable. Typically you can predict the top 6 or so and the bottom 6 or so and everything else in between is a bit of a crap shoot.

We got 106 goals out of DeBrincat, Norris and Tkachuk. Obviously DeBrincat has to settle in, but that number also reflects Norris missing considerable time. Very few teams had that many out of their top 3 and that number this year could be 120 between those three, with no guarantee they are your top 3 goal scorers either.

Sanderson could very well be playing high end 2nd pair minutes by the 2nd half. Obviously possible he isn't but there are many comparables to think it's more than possible

I know the adage is it takes time to win. But you never know who will win until they do. DeBrincat is in his prime, so is Tkachuk, Chabot, Zub, Joseph. Batherson, Norris, Formenton, Brannstrom...these guys are all going in to their 4th and 5th years of pro. Even Stu at 20 is in his 3rd full season.

There's certainly more ammo to think a really good year is possible than to think we're in lottery land.

@Micklebot has pointed out several times in the past week, we played at an 85 point pace over the last 62 games and this team is certainly a lot better than the bunch that paced at 85. 95 likely gets you in the dance.

 

[GCK]

If DeBrincat re-signs or is willing to re-sign if we acquire a top 4 D like Chychrun (making this team a legit contender immediately and arguably for the next 3 years), I'd pull the trigger on a deal based around the 2023 1st, Jarventie/Sogaard and additional picks/prospects + Zaitsev.

I wouldn't go all-in with an acquisition like Chychrun unless DeBrincat is staying long-term. If we trade for Chychrun and then take a step back the following season after having to trade DeBrincat due to him not willing to re-sign, we'll look pretty stupid.

If we can keep Debrincat then adding a contract like Chychrun likely means moving on from Zub or moving Batherson. I’m completely off the Chychrun train now.

 

[Micklebot]

I know the adage is it takes time to win. But you never know who will win until they do. DeBrincat is in his prime, so is Tkachuk, Chabot, Zub, Joseph. Batherson, Norris, Formenton, Brannstrom...these guys are all going in to their 4th and 5th years of pro. Even Stu at 20 is in his 3rd full season.

The Hawks first Cup was with a 20 yr old Kane, and 21 yr old Toews each going into their third season, and a 26 yearly old Keith, Hjalmarsson was 22 going into his first full year and Seabrook was 24. They did have some key vets though in Campbell, Hossa and Sharp.

 

[GCK]

The Hawks first Cup was with a 20 yr old Kane, and 21 yr old Toews each going into their third season, and a 26 yearly old Keith, Hjalmarsson was 22 going into his first full year and Seabrook was 24. They did have some key vets though in Campbell, Hossa and Sharp.

That Chicago D had Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien, Campbell, Hjarlmassom, Sopel and Boynton. We don’t have that.

 

[UglyPuckling]

NHL hockey isn't very predictable.

I was talking about a "rebuild cycle" only. You seem to be taking this in a different direction than what I was talking about (maybe being defensive for some unknown reason?). No matter, it's not that important I suppose to engage in a prolonged discussion.

 

[Micklebot]

That Chicago D had Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien, Campbell, Hjarlmassom, Sopel and Boynton. We don’t have that.

Byfuglien was playing forward that year if I recall, and Boyton barely played any games in the playoffs, and he was at the tail end of his career, same with Sopel, not sure either of those guys were better options than Holden and Hamonic.

Campbell we have no match for and he was a quality player. If we do manage to swap Zaitsev and picks for Chychrun I think we're getting pretty comparable.

 

[GCK]

Byfuglien was playing forward that year if I recall, and Boyton barely played any games in the playoffs, and he was at the tail end of his career, same with Sopel, not sure either of those guys were better options than Holden and Hamonic.

Campbell we have no match for and he was a quality player. If we do manage to swap Zaitsev and picks for Chychrun I think we're getting pretty comparable.

You are right Boynton hardly played. I remember Byufglien playing both that year, he played forward when Barker wasn’t injured.

 

[Micklebot]

You are right Boynton hardly played. I remember Byufglien playing both that year, he played forward when Barker wasn’t injured.

I don't think so, Im pretty sure Barker got traded away that year. I mean, you might be right but I'm pretty sure he was used as a forward in the playoffs.

 

[Knave]

Dorion has had a hell of a summer. Going in this team was way outside the playoffs and internal growth was not going to cut it. I'm glad he knew that and addressed it by bringing in several big name forwards. The defense is a little suspect but the Hurricanes won in 2006 with a suspect defense, a loaded forward group and some hot goaltending at the right moment. A top 4 defenseman add would be ideal just to see what we could do in the next ~2 years but I'm okay with the roster.

 

[GCK]

I don't think so, Im pretty sure Barker got traded away that year. I mean, you might be right but I'm pretty sure he was used as a forward in the playoffs.

In the playoffs he definitely played forward. I remember the absolute freight train he was out there.