Thoughts on the rebuild? PART 2

[topshelf15]

Some people can't relate to things like booting people like Alfie and Leeder on their assess mattering. Or the million other stories of the franchise being handicapped by his decisions, ego and getting his hands in hockey ops. I've been told over and over that the shit EM has done to his own product doesn't matter and it's as simple as fans not showing up, but it very clearly has had a profound effect on the franchise and it obviously started well before the last run, despite those trying to say otherwise. Relationships and actions matter and he's the variable in all of it.

It's a tough market, but Melnyk has done more than enough to deserve the treatment he's received.

Also, for all the blame put on fans, what about the media? They're the ones that have truly villainized the guy and given him that perception outside of Ottawa. If that didn't happen and he didn't constantly feed them stories to portray it that way, it would have all quieted down much quicker.

Yep the team is here because of his failure,this constant whine and trying to pin it everything and everyone else is tiresome

 

[angrydad]

The error in your post is assuming "you" spend money. The Sens fans didn't attend the ECF playoff games. Most who criticize the EM here don't buy any tickets. Its a bunch of people calling the owner cheap who sat on the couch during the playoff run. Hey, I'll listen to anyone who attends games criticism .... but not a bunch of people who haven't spent over $1000 in the building in the past few years.

Hold on, your argument is based off of people you just made up to fulfill your little argument. do you know the majority of posters in here? you can spot them out in a crowd? give me a break. Flip that argument on its head, who are you? how do I know you go to games? see how ridiculous this statement is?

I am not even going to get into reasons for why people may or may not have gone to games, your argument is solely based on people you just hypothetically made up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yep the team is here because of his failure,this constant whine and trying to pin it everything and everyone else is tiresome

In the end it doesn't change anything, its just their perception.

 

[Sweatred]

And again who,s fault is that??Please answer the question instead of just spinning for EM

What “owner negativity” occurred before the empty building in the playoff run. I apologize if I’m missing an event, but the team was about $6 million under the cap and in the ECF’s with an empty building.

From my view - the fans fired first.... unless I’m missing something.

What is your average annual spending over the last three years at the CTC ?

 

[Sweatred]

Some people can't relate to things like booting people like Alfie and Leeder on their assess mattering. Or the million other stories of the franchise being handicapped by his decisions, ego and getting his hands in hockey ops. I've been told over and over that the shit EM has done to his own product doesn't matter and it's as simple as fans not showing up, but it very clearly has had a profound effect on the franchise and it obviously started well before the last run, despite those trying to say otherwise. Relationships and actions matter and he's the variable in all of it.

It's a tough market, but Melnyk has done more than enough to deserve the treatment he's received.

Also, for all the blame put on fans, what about the media? They're the ones that have truly villainized the guy and given him that perception outside of Ottawa. If that didn't happen and he didn't constantly feed them stories to portray it that way, it would have all quieted down much quicker.

So you don’t buy tickets because the Sens passed on overpaying Alfy at 34 years old ? Or what ever he was.

The team was in the ECF playing in an empty building. Take some ownership. I wasn’t there ... I could have been. I’m also not running around calling the owner cheap every day.

This market provides its ownership with a modest revenue stream .. why anyone thinks an owner would lose millions each year is ridiculous.

 

[Sweatred]

Hold on, your argument is based off of people you just made up to fulfill your little argument. do you know the majority of posters in here? you can spot them out in a crowd? give me a break. Flip that argument on its head, who are you? how do I know you go to games? see how ridiculous this statement is?

I am not even going to get into reasons for why people may or may not have gone to games, your argument is solely based on people you just hypothetically made up.

I go to a modest number of games. I bought around 50+ cheap tickets last year .What I don’t do is go around calling the owner cheap. I’m frustrated that this organization doesn’t spend more money but I’m aware that I could spend more and I choose not to. So I don’t act like a hypocrite blaming everyone else... this fan base isn’t overloading the coffers at the CTC and don’t hide behind lame excuses like weather, distance, cold, Phoenix - those are all code for “cheap/lazy”.

There are lots of non attenders here who regularly criticize his lack of spending. Some don't even live in Ottawa.

 

[jhutter]

I go to a modest number of games. I bought around 50+ cheap tickets last year .What I don’t do is go around calling the owner cheap. I’m frustrated that this organization doesn’t spend more money but I’m aware that I could spend more and I choose not to. So I don’t act like a hypocrite blaming everyone else... this fan base isn’t overloading the coffers at the CTC and don’t hide behind lame excuses like weather, distance, cold, Phoenix - those are all code for “cheap/lazy”.

There are lots of non attenders here who regularly criticize his lack of spending. Some don't even live in Ottawa.

What is Melnyk if he isn't "cheap"?

 

[BondraTime]

I go to a modest number of games. I bought around 50+ cheap tickets last year .What I don’t do is go around calling the owner cheap. I’m frustrated that this organization doesn’t spend more money but I’m aware that I could spend more and I choose not to. So I don’t act like a hypocrite blaming everyone else... this fan base isn’t overloading the coffers at the CTC and don’t hide behind lame excuses like weather, distance, cold, Phoenix - those are all code for “cheap/lazy”.

There are lots of non attenders here who regularly criticize his lack of spending. Some don't even live in Ottawa.

What does living in Ottawa have to do with criticizing his lack of spending

 

[bicboi64]

What does living in Ottawa have to do with criticizing his lack of spending

I guess the rest of us should start prioritizing traveling to Ottawa just to watch games live. I love it when certain types of fans pull this kinda stuff and start the slippery slope of creating tiers of fans on who is qualified to critique our team.

Fun fact for them, some of us might never live in Ottawa for whatever reason, and can still be diehard fans that want this team to succeed. Doesn't make you any less or more of a fan depending on your ability to attend games.

 

[Sweatred]

What is Melnyk if he isn't "cheap"?

less cheap than “you” (the fan the whines and doesn’t buy)?

 

[Sweatred]

What does living in Ottawa have to do with criticizing his lack of spending

Kinda hypocritical to call the guy spending $80+ million to run a team a year cheap that you don’t support yourself.

 

[Sweatred]

I guess the rest of us should start prioritizing traveling to Ottawa just to watch games live. I love it when certain types of fans pull this kinda stuff and start the slippery slope of creating tiers of fans on who is qualified to critique our team.

Fun fact for them, some of us might never live in Ottawa for whatever reason, and can still be diehard fans that want this team to succeed. Doesn't make you any less or more of a fan depending on your ability to attend games.

You may think that ... some fans hold $100K accounts with the Sens. They are way more important than you or me. I listen when they call the owner cheap. I’m a fan of the Jays but I don’t attend many games ... I also don’t spend half my day criticizing their spending on every second post .

I respect out of town views ... but their are a few posters here who comment on uncle Scrooge in every post. They would do well to look in the mirror.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So you don’t buy tickets because the Sens passed on overpaying Alfy at 34 years old ? Or what ever he was.

The team was in the ECF playing in an empty building. Take some ownership. I wasn’t there ... I could have been. I’m also not running around calling the owner cheap every day.

This market provides its ownership with a modest revenue stream .. why anyone thinks an owner would lose millions each year is ridiculous.

Or paying Mr. Senator what they agreed to right? See how perception can be so different. Sure, if phrased the way you chose to, it sounds absurd and reality probably lands somewhere in the middle, but I did not say it was that simple or that it was just the one thing, but things like that and the long list of them Melnyk has piled up over the years do matter to people and does have an effect and clearly effected the franchise, his corporate support, the business community getting behind them, interest in the team, and general willingness to buy in again. People in Ottawa hate the man and imo it has so much less to do with money than you do. I think it's more of an issue of if people want to buy in emotionally and spend their time again than it is forking over their cash. We have debated this before and you've told me these things don't or shouldn't matter, and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, nor am I going to be one that argues about the money as the primary issue.

It was not an empty building, you're using hyperbole and exaggeration to try to make a point, they just didn't sell out every single home game. From my perspective, that was at a point the tables had already turned, so I saw those empty seats as a direct result of Melnyk's handling of the team up to that point. There weren't empty playoff seats prior, so something changed.

Your perception is that it is the fans fault and is as simple as not showing up and that's okay, we don't have to agree.

By all accounts Melnyk sounds like an absolute class A douchebag that treats people like shit, so he just seems to be treated around here like he treats others.

 

[BondraTime]

Kinda hypocritical to call the guy spending $80+ million to run a team a year cheap that you don’t support yourself.

Jesus Christ

 

[Maraz]

On Hockeybuzz I saw that Sens might be after Matt Dumba. I know that is not reliable source but assume Sens aquire him for lets say NYI 1st + prospect.
Then they draft Stutzle (I think LA pick QB) and Raymond at #5OA.

Can we win the cup in 3-5 yrs if things go this way?

Tkachuk Stutzle Raymond
Norris Brown Batherson
Formenton White Duclair
Balcers Pinto Brown

Chabot JBD
Brannstrom Dumba
Wolanin Thomson

Daccord
Hogberg

Note 1: I am quite high on Daccord, as you can see.
Note 2: Swap QB for Stutzle if you think LA pick German.
Note 3: In the lineup I am not including posibble high draft picks in next 1-2 years.

 

[jhutter]

On Hockeybuzz I saw that Sens might be after Matt Dumba. I know that is not reliable source but assume Sens aquire him for lets say NYI 1st + prospect.
Then they draft Stutzle (I think LA pick QB) and Raymond at #5OA.

Can we win the cup in 3-5 yrs if things go this way?

Tkachuk Stutzle Raymond
Norris Brown Batherson
Formenton White Duclair
Balcers Pinto Brown

Chabot JBD
Brannstrom Dumba
Wolanin Thomson

Daccord
Hogberg

Note 1: I am quite high on Daccord, as you can see.
Note 2: Swap QB for Stutzle if you think LA pick German.
Note 3: In the lineup I am not including posibble high draft picks in next 1-2 years.

It takes so many things going right to make the Cup Finals, but making the playoffs is a first step. If the prospects hit like we hope they will, especially Timmy and Raymond, I think that's a playoff team.

 

[angrydad]

I go to a modest number of games. I bought around 50+ cheap tickets last year .What I don’t do is go around calling the owner cheap. I’m frustrated that this organization doesn’t spend more money but I’m aware that I could spend more and I choose not to. So I don’t act like a hypocrite blaming everyone else... this fan base isn’t overloading the coffers at the CTC and don’t hide behind lame excuses like weather, distance, cold, Phoenix - those are all code for “cheap/lazy”.

There are lots of non attenders here who regularly criticize his lack of spending. Some don't even live in Ottawa.

That is exactly what you did. You blamed a bunch of people you don't know for not spending money at the CTC.

 

[Sweatred]

That is exactly what you did. You blamed a bunch of people you don't know for not spending money at the CTC.

Incorrect - I called out a bunch of people that won’t spend any money for constantly criticizing a guy that won’t spend any money.

This just goes in circles ... Ottawa fans don’t spend any money and their owners can’t afford to spend $20 million a year and both sides whine about the other. If the fan base would fill the coffers at least they’d have something to complain about.... and sorry , there are not a list of owners who want to own this team who don’t care about losing $20 million.... so don’t bring up Tampa or Chicago or wherever.

 

[Spartachat]

What “owner negativity” occurred before the empty building in the playoff run. I apologize if I’m missing an event, but the team was about $6 million under the cap and in the ECF’s with an empty building.

From my view - the fans fired first.... unless I’m missing something.

What is your average annual spending over the last three years at the CTC ?

I was in the arena for all the ECF games. There were some $150 empty seats in the upper 300s, but the arena was far from empty. It be didn’t help that Melnyk jacked up the prices, so most people couldn’t afford to go.

 

[Sweatred]

I was in the arena for all the ECF games. There were some $150 empty seats in the upper 300s, but the arena was far from empty. It be didn’t help that Melnyk jacked up the prices, so most people couldn’t afford to go.

All owners jack up the prices for ECF games ... and fans can afford to go.. they choose not to... which is their choice ... but they made that choice. An owner raising ECF prices doesn't constitute the first salvo.

 

[Sweatred]

Or paying Mr. Senator what they agreed to right? See how perception can be so different. Sure, if phrased the way you chose to, it sounds absurd and reality probably lands somewhere in the middle, but I did not say it was that simple or that it was just the one thing, but things like that and the long list of them Melnyk has piled up over the years do matter to people and does have an effect and clearly effected the franchise, his corporate support, the business community getting behind them, interest in the team, and general willingness to buy in again. People in Ottawa hate the man and imo it has so much less to do with money than you do. I think it's more of an issue of if people want to buy in emotionally and spend their time again than it is forking over their cash. We have debated this before and you've told me these things don't or shouldn't matter, and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, nor am I going to be one that argues about the money as the primary issue.

It was not an empty building, you're using hyperbole and exaggeration to try to make a point, they just didn't sell out every single home game. From my perspective, that was at a point the tables had already turned, so I saw those empty seats as a direct result of Melnyk's handling of the team up to that point. There weren't empty playoff seats prior, so something changed.

Your perception is that it is the fans fault and is as simple as not showing up and that's okay, we don't have to agree.

By all accounts Melnyk sounds like an absolute class A douchebag that treats people like shit, so he just seems to be treated around here like he treats others.

Hey I 100% agree with all the dislike for Melynk ... I know people that have worked for him etc.

When I say “empty” I think you know what I mean ... it is a concern for playoff games to go unsold. Where do you think the Ottawa Senators rank in terms of overall gate revenue + TV deal less whatever disadvantaged arena deals they incurred over time.
NHL teams operating profit | Statista

 

[Spartachat]

All owners jack up the prices for ECF games ... and fans can afford to go.. they choose not to... which is their choice ... but they made that choice. An owner raising ECF prices doesn't constitute the first salvo.

He jacked up all the prices to playoff games that year after it was expected the Sens would play the Leafs. The face value of the tickets I had for the ECF were less than 90 dollars and I paid 60 dollars. To the public they were selling those for over 150. What you have to look at the total revenue for the game not number of tickets sold. Selling 5000 tickets at 400 dollars is the same revenue as selling 20,000 tickets at 100 dollars.

 

[Sweatred]

He jacked up all the prices to playoff games that year after it was expected the Sens would play the Leafs. The face value of the tickets I had for the ECF were less than 90 dollars and I paid 60 dollars. To the public they were selling those for over 150. What you have to look at the total revenue for the game not number of tickets sold. Selling 5000 tickets at 400 dollars is the same revenue as selling 20,000 tickets at 100 dollars.

Ya ya ... that’s been going on for years at lots of rinks ... our ticket prices are some of the lowest in the league ... regular season and playoff. We the fans provide our owner(s) with some of the weakest revenue streams.

I’ve read 1000 posts about our cheap owner and not one about our cheap fan base ...

 

[Spartachat]

Ya ya ... that’s been going on for years at lots of rinks ... our ticket prices are some of the lowest in the league ... regular season and playoff. We the fans provide our owner(s) with some of the weakest revenue streams.

I’ve read 1000 posts about our cheap owner and not one about our cheap fan base ...

True, Sens tickets are now some of the cheapest in the league. However, for the playoffs that year it was much more expensive than usual. I was also a ticket holder for playoffs in other years. I am sure Melnyk was satisfied with the revenue he got from those playoffs even if there were a couple of empty seats.

 

[Sweatred]

True, Sens tickets are now some of the cheapest in the league. However, for the playoffs that year it was much more expensive than usual. I was also a ticket holder for playoffs in other years. I am sure Melnyk was satisfied with the revenue he got from those playoffs even if there were a couple of empty seats.

Im not sure ... my feeling is he may have lost more money in 17-18 than 19-20 (less covid).