This Team is Horrible (All Purpose Venting Thread)

[Uncle Duke]

This is going to require patience. The Isles need one or more of the former 1st round picks to take off. I believe this will timing will align with the departure or LTIR of several current grizzled vet types. In other words, this is a mini rebuild but we are stuck in purgatory for the time being

A must or we're in deep sh*t for a while. And more than one of them.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Wow, the insanity on this board.

We aren't in a rebuild.

You don't commit to over $130 million dollars in one off season to 4 players- all approaching or over 30- and then trade a first round and second round pick for another 27 year old and sign him to another 30 million contract.... in a rebuild.

Truth is, we have no idea how this team will look with 4 quality centers running the lines and with 5-6 quality forwards on their wings yet..because we simply don't have them yet on the roster.

Lee HAS TO BE on a line with two shooters, and neither Barzal or Eberle are shooting enough.

Bailey HAS TO BE on a line with two scorers and he isn't on Nelson's line enough and Beau is still developing...

Eberle benefits most by being the "other" wing and not the go-to- wing, simply because his 30 goals seasons are likely the thing of the past unless a true scorer is on that left side of his.

Brassard is a third line winger at best, and usually saves his best for another day.

Ladd is washed up.

Komarov is a 14th forward, Knuckles is not even that.

MDC is absolutely nothing.

Johnston, Martin and Clutterbuck are pure checkers and roughers who provide little else. One or two of them on your 4th line is plenty.

So that is the challenge during the off season...period.

Islanders ABSOLUTELY MUST get 2 more TRUE wings to put into the mix to join Lee, Eberle, Beau and Bailey plus Wahlstrom, Koivula or Bellows need to start to show they belong.

And Lou has to do it this off season. We are 100% committed...period. There is no rebuild happening, so it is either finding a way or we will be in Mediocresville for awhile.......

Not a voluntary one anyway. A next 15 games like the last 15 may force Lou's hand though.

 

[Newsworthy]

Everyone gives trotz a free pass. Why?

For me it's about what has transpired despite the obvious lack of talent.

Did he not win coach of the year his first season here and a Cup the year before?

I guess it's a what have you done for me lately type reason.

Trotz had me at hello.

Lou is an acquired taste.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Not a voluntary one anyway. A next 15 games like the last 15 may force Lou's hand though.

No.

 

[Uncle Duke]

No.

That's right, just go blissfully forward in denial. Good plan.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

That's right, just go blissfully forward in denial. Good plan.

It is called reality. How they might continue to sink this season isn't going to have them reverse course with both Pelech and Cizikas being out for much for the spiral. A rebuild isn't happening period........

 

[Frankie41987]

Our “core” is a bunch of 30 year olds locked up in long term contracts. We have no assets to move them, little draft stock, very little roster flexibility and a shitty prospect pool. We couldn’t rebuild if we wanted to because all our veterans are on extended deals. Hate to break it to all the people touting that Lou had a “3 -5 year plan” but this situation is going to be a lot worse in the next few years.

 

[Merrrlin]

Our “core” is a bunch of 30 year olds locked up in long term contracts. We have no assets to move them, little draft stock, very little roster flexibility and a shitty prospect pool. We couldn’t rebuild if we wanted to because all our veterans are on extended deals. Hate to break it to all the people touting that Lou had a “3 -5 year plan” but this situation is going to be a lot worse in the next few years.

I don't think it's that grim - Dobson will alter this defence core in a positive way. Sorokin is going to be an elite tender. Barzal is not having a good year, but he does have 100pt potential, and personally, I think he will be in the Rocket convo a few times in his career.

We don't have a 1st now, but in the future we will.

Barzal
Dobson
Sorokin

^ looks like we have the foundation for a good decade or so.

I don't want to come off as a hater, but I think a big step in the growth of this team will come from moving away from Lou and bringing in someone with a better draft/development record.

Lou left Toronto with a couple good young talents, but he did nothing outside the top 10 picks. He left NJ in a similar position. Really weak when it comes to scouting as the leader of organizations.

Overall, I think NYI is in a good position, despite some hefty contracts.

 

[Newsworthy]

It is called reality. How they might continue to sink this season isn't going to have them reverse course with both Pelech and Cizikas being out for much for the spiral. A rebuild isn't happening period........

If the Islanders aren't going to rebuild than they will be in limbo for a long time.
Just backing into the playoffs isn't supposed to be the goal. We need long term stability.

 

[Newsworthy]

Our “core” is a bunch of 30 year olds locked up in long term contracts. We have no assets to move them, little draft stock, very little roster flexibility and a shitty prospect pool. We couldn’t rebuild if we wanted to because all our veterans are on extended deals. Hate to break it to all the people touting that Lou had a “3 -5 year plan” but this situation is going to be a lot worse in the next few years.

Sad to say but Lou's a big part of the equation and has been a problem rather than a solution. Lou is hugely responsible for our bad cap situation and the 30 and over aging core.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

If the Islanders aren't going to rebuild than they will be in limbo for a long time.
Just backing into the playoffs isn't supposed to be the goal. We need long term stability.

You have to have depth to survive a season and we don't have that yet........that is what you should be pushing for, not a rebuild when you are already "all in" on competing.

 

[PK Cronin]

Sad to say but Lou's a big part of the equation and has been a problem rather than a solution. Lou is hugely responsible for our bad cap situation and the 30 and over aging core.

We don't have a bad cap situation.

 

[Frankie41987]

We don't have a bad cap situation.

We have to sign Barzal, Pulock, Toews after this offseason. That's basically going to eat up all our cap, what kind of flexibility is that going to leave us with?

 

[PK Cronin]

We have to sign Barzal, Pulock, Toews after this offseason. That's basically going to eat up all our cap, what kind of flexibility is that going to leave us with?

Take a look around the league at other teams' cap situations and you'll quickly realize that having the money to sign the players you have (and want) isn't a bad cap situation. Every year we hear about these teams who are in cap hell, yet, they somehow move players and money around to make things work. The Isles are somehow unable to do this though according to fans. There are only eight teams in the league with less money than the Isles right now. Between trades, buyouts, and burying contracts, there's more than enough wiggle room to get things done. Getting through next season is key, then there's the expansion draft which will provide more options with more teams looking to make deals. I'm not concerned.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think it's that grim - Dobson will alter this defence core in a positive way. Sorokin is going to be an elite tender. Barzal is not having a good year, but he does have 100pt potential, and personally, I think he will be in the Rocket convo a few times in his career.

Did you mean Art Ross? Because I can't see any way Barzal ever wins a Rocket. Doesn't have the long range shot, and doesn't hang around the net enough to bang in garbage goals/deflections.

 

[Newsworthy]

Take a look around the league at other teams' cap situations and you'll quickly realize that having the money to sign the players you have (and want) isn't a bad cap situation. Every year we hear about these teams who are in cap hell, yet, they somehow move players and money around to make things work. The Isles are somehow unable to do this though according to fans. There are only eight teams in the league with less money than the Isles right now. Between trades, buyouts, and burying contracts, there's more than enough wiggle room to get things done. Getting through next season is key, then there's the expansion draft which will provide more options with more teams looking to make deals. I'm not concerned.

But resigning our own players doesn't really improve the team. We don't have much flexibility either. Leddy could definitely be dealt for a solid return and add some relief but the players that need to go are pretty much untradeable.

Why aren't you concerned?
To me it's not about keeping our guys but getting better and younger.

 

[PK Cronin]

But resigning our own players doesn't really improve the team. We don't have much flexibility either. Leddy could definitely be dealt for a solid return and add some relief but the players that need to go are pretty much untradeable.

Why aren't you concerned?
To me it's not about keeping our guys but getting better and younger.

Getting better isn't linear. Sometimes teams need to take a step back before they can move forward again. Maintain the status quo, keep what we have, and wait for more options to become available. People think too many of our contracts can't be moved and I don't agree. We see similar moves happen all the time around the league. Leddy, Bailey, Boychuk, Komarov, Clutterbuck...they can all be moved if necessary. Heck, we even saw Ladd's name get thrown into the trade mix this year and he's willing to waive in order to get another chance in the NHL. The cap is going to go up again after next season, the Islanders would only need to re-sign Beauvillier, Dal Colle, and Koivula (maybe Sorokin?). That's not going to cost a ton, it moves other bad contracts closer to the end and therefore more easily moved, and the expansion draft will clear someone off the roster to provide more room. Oh, and the cap will go up again after the expansion happens.

Dobson, Bellows, Wahlstrom, Wilde, etc. could all progress as well (they all won't, but some will) providing cheap substitutes for players as we go.

 

[MJF]

We have to sign Barzal, Pulock, Toews after this offseason. That's basically going to eat up all our cap, what kind of flexibility is that going to leave us with?

With the contracts we have expiring we likely still have to shed 1 more contract to get some wiggle room.

We’re not in cap hell by any stretch.

 

[Newsworthy]

Getting better isn't linear. Sometimes teams need to take a step back before they can move forward again. Maintain the status quo, keep what we have, and wait for more options to become available. People think too many of our contracts can't be moved and I don't agree. We see similar moves happen all the time around the league. Leddy, Bailey, Boychuk, Komarov, Clutterbuck...they can all be moved if necessary. Heck, we even saw Ladd's name get thrown into the trade mix this year and he's willing to waive in order to get another chance in the NHL. The cap is going to go up again after next season, the Islanders would only need to re-sign Beauvillier, Dal Colle, and Koivula (maybe Sorokin?). That's not going to cost a ton, it moves other bad contracts closer to the end and therefore more easily moved, and the expansion draft will clear someone off the roster to provide more room. Oh, and the cap will go up again after the expansion happens.

Dobson, Bellows, Wahlstrom, Wilde, etc. could all progress as well (they all won't, but some will) providing cheap substitutes for players as we go.

I hope you're right. You are one of the more positive posters I've noticed.
Never a cloudy day.

 

[Frankie41987]

Take a look around the league at other teams' cap situations and you'll quickly realize that having the money to sign the players you have (and want) isn't a bad cap situation. Every year we hear about these teams who are in cap hell, yet, they somehow move players and money around to make things work. The Isles are somehow unable to do this though according to fans. There are only eight teams in the league with less money than the Isles right now. Between trades, buyouts, and burying contracts, there's more than enough wiggle room to get things done. Getting through next season is key, then there's the expansion draft which will provide more options with more teams looking to make deals. I'm not concerned.

But that's the problem, feel free to check my math, but I don't think we have the cap space to even retain our players at this point let alone upgrade the roster. At the end of the season we will have 71,400,000 tied up. If the new cap is 82,000,000. Thats roughly 10.5 million in capspace. Try to divide that up to sign the players we have to retain (Barzal, Toews, Pulock) and then try to add a backup goaltender (hopefully Sorokin). Just to accomplish that we are either going to have to unload bad contracts (which means pairing them with actual assets that i'm not sure we have) or try to move useful players that will be a detriment to moving this team forward. And even our useful players (Lee, Nelson, Eberle, Bailey) are all older players on long-term deals and I'm not sure how much value we will even get. I'd love for you to make that situation sound better (cause i'm real depressed about it) but saying "teams do it all the time" isn't an answer and isn't going to do it for me.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Our “core” is a bunch of 30 year olds locked up in long term contracts. We have no assets to move them, little draft stock, very little roster flexibility and a shitty prospect pool. We couldn’t rebuild if we wanted to because all our veterans are on extended deals

I though I was in the Rangers board any year up until 2017

 

[Sparksrus3]

oops. Gonna get the papers get the papers

 

[PK Cronin]

I hope you're right. You are one of the more positive posters I've noticed.
Never a cloudy day.

The great thing about sports is that there's always a tomorrow (unless your team relocates ). I don't agree with everything that happens with the team but I also don't see things as being catastrophic either. Everything can be undone in time and we've all suffered enough over the past 30 years. Has Lamoriello overpaid for some guys? Yes. Are they such a burden that they can't be managed? No. I'll say that I'm annoyed a top 6 scorer wasn't brought in this season (before or during the season). That means the team is now in a holding pattern. I'm happy we have a long term solution at the 3C spot though. Not ideal, but far from the end of the world. This team was the fifth best team in the league last year, and was pretty good until the injury bug hit this year. I'd suspect that this team is probably between what they're currently showing and what they were last year. That's okay for right now and hopefully Lamoriello can improve upon that as time goes on.

 

[PK Cronin]

But that's the problem, feel free to check my math, but I don't think we have the cap space to even retain our players at this point let alone upgrade the roster. At the end of the season we will have 71,400,000 tied up. If the new cap is 82,000,000. Thats roughly 10.5 million in capspace. Try to divide that up to sign the players we have to retain (Barzal, Toews, Pulock) and then try to add a backup goaltender (hopefully Sorokin). Just to accomplish that we are either going to have to unload bad contracts (which means pairing them with actual assets that i'm not sure we have) or try to move useful players that will be a detriment to moving this team forward. And even our useful players (Lee, Nelson, Eberle, Bailey) are all older players on long-term deals and I'm not sure how much value we will even get. I'd love for you to make that situation sound better (cause i'm real depressed about it) but saying "teams do it all the time" isn't an answer and isn't going to do it for me.

The cap is going to be $84M at minimum and can go up to $88M (it won't because of escrow).

Barzal at $8.5M
Pulock at $6M
Toews at $2.5M

That puts the team $3.3M over the cap and they'd have to sign a backup goalie still (Sorokin can only cost so much in his first year, let's say $1M).

Lee Barzal Eberle
Ladd Nelson Bailey
Beauvillier Pageau Dal Colle
Johnston Cizikas Komarov
Dal Colle Koivula

Pelech Pulock
Toews Mayfield
Leddy Boychuk
Dobson (could be Aho instead)

Varlamov
Sorokin

Trading Clutterbuck alone would almost free up enough space. I expect a trade or two to create the room necessary, and there might be a trade to bring someone back that could be useful. The "bad" contracts likely don't need to be packaged with anything unless you're talking about Ladd or Boychuk. Even then, Boychuk is serviceable and can still play in the NHL. We'll see what each of the RFAs get though, maybe my estimations are way off.

 

[MJF]

I hope you're right. You are one of the more positive posters I've noticed.
Never a cloudy day.

What’s to be discouraged about? We were competitive last year, we’re competitive this year.