This is Nazem Kadri's Chance.

[The Winter Soldier]

Babcock's "Good Human Beings" requirement to be a member of the Leafs will be Kadri's biggest challenge.

There will be pain Nazem - time to grow up now. You have a leadership position waiting for you if you are mature enough to take it.

All the best in your journey towards manhood. I hope you succeed - we need you.

Babcock has probably been filled in on whatever historical problems Kadri has had here.

I did catch that part of Babcock's number 1 thing here is to be a good human being. Also the part of living and breathing Leafs. Training, eating right, all the things that make a Leaf. Kessel is gone, practically given away. So the Leafs are very serious with this I would surmise.

I would guess, Kadri will have very little wiggle room if he strays. Babcock said if you cannot uphold these standards, you will not be a Leaf. Simple as that.

Carlyle was tough love but he kept playing Kadri. Babcock is much more, don't do it his way. You are gone. He has the pull to make this happen with the Leafs. Will be interesting seeing this dynamic.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I'm the opposite. If we're looking ahead to the future Leafs and they have guys like Marner, Nylander in the top six, we ideally need our 2016 picks to be big skill centers like Logan Brown or Auston Matthews. Long term, if the Leafs successfully rebuild, I don't see a purpose for Nazem Kadri.

He can do whatever, but at the end of the day, the big payoff is trading him for a younger asset that fits in better.

Completely agree.

Also factor in Brown + Kapanen who are undersized guys who should fill into top 6 or at the worst top 9 roles.

Also factor in that Kadri is two years from UFA status so by the time we turn this around in 3 to 5 years he'll no longer be cheap.

Kadri isn't helping us win anything in the next few years. This team is destined for a lot of pain. He's also not the type of player to protect.

I see him similar to how Hemsky was in Edmonton. Edmonton had all kinds of young smaller offensive guys in the system and they refused to deal him out. They eventually did but only after his value had plummeted because of age/contract status. If they had of been proactive and dealt him earlier they would have got a lot more.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't see how this disproves my theory his p/60 go from 1.4 the season before, lockout season 3.18, next season 1.71, last season 1.65.

Either he played well above his head during the lockout or he had boost by being in much better condition, he started very hot but as the season went on he was surpassed by other players.

He seems to hover around 1.55-1.7 except that one season, one would have to surmise something was different about that season.

This was your theory wasn't it?
"AHL players had a big advantage on those who couldn't play during the lockout,"

This has been proven to be a myth. If you want to believe it that's your right, we'll agree to disagree.

If you think it makes sense to just toss out Kadri's best year for this reason, then we'll again agree to disagree.

As far as his ups and downs go, like I said before, progress isn't always linear and if you expect it to be, you will be disappointed in almost everybody we ever draft.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

This was your theory wasn't it?
"AHL players had a big advantage on those who couldn't play during the lockout,"

This has been proven to be a myth. If you want to believe it that's your right, we'll agree to disagree.

If you think it makes sense to just toss out Kadri's best year for this reason, then we'll again agree to disagree.

As far as his ups and downs go, like I said before, progress isn't always linear and if you expect it to be, you will be disappointed in almost everybody we ever draft.

I think removing an outlier provides more accurate data.I don't expect a linear progression but he almost doubled his historic output and has yet to come close to achieving that again.

It's not about tossing it out it's about what to actually expect based on lifetime performance, I think he had an edge because of the AHL but let's just say he had an unbelievable hot streak, doesn't take away that at this time it appears whatever caused it was unsustainable and since then he has regressed to his historic numbers.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Completely agree.

Also factor in Brown + Kapanen who are undersized guys who should fill into top 6 or at the worst top 9 roles.

Also factor in that Kadri is two years from UFA status so by the time we turn this around in 3 to 5 years he'll no longer be cheap.

Kadri isn't helping us win anything in the next few years. This team is destined for a lot of pain. He's also not the type of player to protect.

I see him similar to how Hemsky was in Edmonton. Edmonton had all kinds of young smaller offensive guys in the system and they refused to deal him out. They eventually did but only after his value had plummeted because of age/contract status. If they had of been proactive and dealt him earlier they would have got a lot more.

This makes some sense for sure. I just hope that if he is traded, he's utilized in a way that gives him a chance to pump up his value first.

On the other hand, based on what you've said about Kadri before, I know I have a better opinion of Kadri then you do and I don't think keeping him is necessarily a mistake. I think he hasn't been handled properly and he might thrive under Babcock in which case we might not want to rush to trade him. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I use to love kadri ,not anymore every year I expect him to step up , he still has not . He just talks and talks . " I'm gonna be the next Johnny T one day " oh yeah but . Trade him well people still want him before he has as much value as zack sill ( I know he won't have that little value ) but trade him

I expected him to snatch the top line job away from Bozak, but he has not been able to do that. I have been liking him less and less.

 

[Super Mega]

the opinions in this thread are surprising.

Kadri is absolutely the kind of piece you hold onto during a rebuild. Its a chance for him to get tons of ice time and be used on the PP. This will only increase his value as he solidifies into a 1C role.

I still feel Kadri is a 2C but consider what an elevated role did for guys like Santa/Franson/Winnik - all played higher and excelled and all were able to bring back returns well exceeding their true value.

I see the same with Kadri except he has a chance to develop and grow still. Its absolutely win/win to keep him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think removing an outlier provides more accurate data.I don't expect a linear progression but he almost doubled his historic output and has yet to come close to achieving that again.

It's not about tossing it out it's about what to actually expect based on lifetime performance, I think he had an edge because of the AHL but let's just say he had an unbelievable hot streak, doesn't take away that at this time it appears whatever caused it was unsustainable and since then he has regressed to his historic numbers.

I hope you won't be offended when I say that this has been discussed to death and I don't care to make another dozen posts on the subject going back and forth with you so this will probably be my last.

You're entitled to your opinion but you might want to dig a little deeper. I'll throw out just a few thoughts for you. During Kadri's "outlier" season, he was matching up against 3rd lines. Since then, the matchups have been a lot tougher which is surely a factor in his lesser point totals since then. Also, last year he had an off year on the PP. Was that due largely to Clarkson? Just variance perhaps? Or can we expect equally bad PP production going forward? I think it's a combination of things but I'd be a lot he'll be better going forward. What about Corsi numbers, many people think those are a better indicator than points. You might want to consider how you feel about that and maybe have a look at his Corsi indicators. Others have mentioned his improvement defensively, maybe you don't agree or don't consider that a mitigating factor. There are many more things to think about I haven't mentioned and I'm sure you understand there is also more to it than just looking at points scored.

Anyhow, I've been through all that and have my own opinion on Kadri. I'm not going to make any predictions going forward but I do think it's too early to give up on him and wouldn't look to trade him right now. Hopefully he'll be handled properly by Babcock, I hope he gets a shot as our #1C and maybe he'll surprise some people. If you don't agree and want him traded I respect your opinion but I do disagree.

Cheers!

 

[diceman934]

I hope you won't be offended when I say that this has been discussed to death and I don't care to make another dozen posts on the subject going back and forth with you so this will probably be my last.

You're entitled to your opinion but you might want to dig a little deeper. I'll throw out just a few thoughts for you. During Kadri's "outlier" season, he was matching up against 3rd lines. Since then, the matchups have been a lot tougher which is surely a factor in his lesser point totals since then. Also, last year he had an off year on the PP. Was that due largely to Clarkson? Just variance perhaps? Or can we expect equally bad PP production going forward? I think it's a combination of things but I'd be a lot he'll be better going forward. What about Corsi numbers, many people think those are a better indicator than points. You might want to consider how you feel about that and maybe have a look at his Corsi indicators. Others have mentioned his improvement defensively, maybe you don't agree or don't consider that a mitigating factor. There are many more things to think about I haven't mentioned and I'm sure you understand there is also more to it than just looking at points scored.

Anyhow, I've been through all that and have my own opinion on Kadri. I'm not going to make any predictions going forward but I do think it's too early to give up on him and wouldn't look to trade him right now. Hopefully he'll be handled properly by Babcock, I hope he gets a shot as our #1C and maybe he'll surprise some people. If you don't agree and want him traded I respect your opinion but I do disagree.

Cheers!

I agree with you!

I will add that Kadri has always responded to challenges and thrives when given opportunity. I believe that this is the year that you will see Kadri take on more of a leadership role as well. Now is the time for Kadri to increase his worth to the team and I say he does so.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree with you!

I will add that Kadri has always responded to challenges and thrives when given opportunity. I believe that this is the year that you will see Kadri take on more of a leadership role as well. Now is the time for Kadri to increase his worth to the team and I say he does so.

Hehe. S..t happens eh.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I hope you won't be offended when I say that this has been discussed to death and I don't care to make another dozen posts on the subject going back and forth with you so this will probably be my last.

You're entitled to your opinion but you might want to dig a little deeper. I'll throw out just a few thoughts for you. During Kadri's "outlier" season, he was matching up against 3rd lines. Since then, the matchups have been a lot tougher which is surely a factor in his lesser point totals since then. Also, last year he had an off year on the PP. Was that due largely to Clarkson? Just variance perhaps? Or can we expect equally bad PP production going forward? I think it's a combination of things but I'd be a lot he'll be better going forward. What about Corsi numbers, many people think those are a better indicator than points. You might want to consider how you feel about that and maybe have a look at his Corsi indicators. Others have mentioned his improvement defensively, maybe you don't agree or don't consider that a mitigating factor. There are many more things to think about I haven't mentioned and I'm sure you understand there is also more to it than just looking at points scored.

Anyhow, I've been through all that and have my own opinion on Kadri. I'm not going to make any predictions going forward but I do think it's too early to give up on him and wouldn't look to trade him right now. Hopefully he'll be handled properly by Babcock, I hope he gets a shot as our #1C and maybe he'll surprise some people. If you don't agree and want him traded I respect your opinion but I do disagree.

Cheers!

For what it's worth I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

 

[mikebel111*]

For what it's worth I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

Thats fine, but you need to stop with the "its never Kadri's fault" card. If anything we always heard its always "Kessel's fault" when Bozak would allow GA after GA.

I have seen Kadri harped to death on this board even one specific poster saying "he held out of camp". Wrong he signed his contract a night before camp started. People have constantly made up lies about him even when they make no sense. Another one is what he talks about on twitter. Like honestly are the critics that obsessed with him that they point out everything he does in his daily life? Whats next, they dont like his walking style? Its pretty amazing Nazem survived in this market. Heck I wouldnt be surprised if he asked for a trade with the way things have gone here.
He has done everything managment wants him to do. Get bigger he does that. Be better on D, he does that. Clear up turnovers he does that. Mature off the ice, all signs indicate he has done that.
You can tell he really cares and wants to win here and looks like Babcock wants him around as well.

There has been so many made up stories about him and when his fans start pointing them out to the critics, fans start being called "fanboys" "his poop dont stink" and all that other fun stuff. When that happens you know it means critics have no basis for those made up stories so they resort to name calling

 

[Morbo]

He and Gardiner are the two guys I'm most looking forward to seeing under Babcock. If Babs can get these two to unlock their potential that's two more core pieces we won't have to draft.

 

[ironhorse384]

It's not about skill and it's not about talent. It's about him being an every shift player.

 

[Diatomic]

He and Gardiner are the two guys I'm most looking forward to seeing under Babcock. If Babs can get these two to unlock their potential that's two more core pieces we won't have to draft.

I agree.

 

[Menzinger]

He's a fantastic possession player, with offensive skill and can draw penalties with ease.

If he plays well I can see Babcock loving his game and kerping him as a #2 centre for years to come.

 

[Wami]

Naz has always improved his linemates play. He is an essential piece moving forward, especially from the perspective of inflating the value of some of your pieces in order to sell them at the deadline for more than they're worth.

 

[mikebel111*]

He's a fantastic possession player, with offensive skill and can draw penalties with ease.

If he plays well I can see Babcock loving his game and kerping him as a #2 centre for years to come.

That would be great. Than we don't need to make both Nylander and Marner into C's, though it would be good if they both turned into C's anyway

 

[Menzinger]

I think removing an outlier provides more accurate data.I don't expect a linear progression but he almost doubled his historic output and has yet to come close to achieving that again.

It's not about tossing it out it's about what to actually expect based on lifetime performance, I think he had an edge because of the AHL but let's just say he had an unbelievable hot streak, doesn't take away that at this time it appears whatever caused it was unsustainable and since then he has regressed to his historic numbers.

Your "outlier" represents far too big of a sample size of games played to be treated as such.

 

[RickyVaive]

It's funny that the same people who defended and continue to defend Kessel like to **** on Kadri. Does not train hard? bad attitude? doesn't compete every shift? not likeable? All those describe Kessel and get transferred to Kadri who has always had a secondary role at the club.

I've never seen an organization be so negative towards one of their top prospects (during the Wilson years especially). I have heard reports of immaturity and undisciplined behaviour (late for practice, etc.) but not dozens of stories from teammates or former teammates about how they can't stand the guy. Kessel's elite speed and scoring touch doesn't excuse being a crappy teammate.
I hope Kadri rises to the challenge, but who knows. At least he isn't on a 8x8 contract and will be a lot easier to move if he doesn't.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It's funny that the same people who defended and continue to defend Kessel like to **** on Kadri. Does not train hard? bad attitude? doesn't compete every shift? not likeable? All those describe Kessel and get transferred to Kadri who has always had a secondary role at the club.

I've never seen an organization be so negative towards one of their top prospects (during the Wilson years especially). I have heard reports of immaturity and undisciplined behaviour (late for practice, etc.) but not dozens of stories from teammates or former teammates about how they can't stand the guy. Kessel's elite speed and scoring touch doesn't excuse being a crappy teammate.
I hope Kadri rises to the challenge, but who knows. At least he isn't on a 8x8 contract and will be a lot easier to move if he doesn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of that has to do with the way some fans of Kadri treat every other player who they view as in his way. Not saying it's right but negativity breeds negativity.

Also I personally find that when he's not performing well those same people blame everyone else for it. Kadri's a good center has his flaws like everyone else but hopefully he can step up this year.

 

[Snow Dog]

Does anyone realize that he isn't even signed yet(I don't think).What kind of contract does he get?My guess is he.s looking at 5x5 and will get 4x3.

 

[Snow Dog]

I wouldn't be surprised if part of that has to do with the way some fans of Kadri treat every other player who they view as in his way. Not saying it's right but negativity breeds negativity.

Also I personally find that when he's not performing well those same people blame everyone else for it. Kadri's a good center has his flaws like everyone else but hopefully he can step up this year.

You have seen the light my son.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Trade bozak and give him the #1 center spot for the whole season. Put him with our best wingers jvr and lupul. See if he sinks or swims and can be part of the core moving forward

 

[MikeBabchuk]

He was drafted in the same year as the great up and coming and rookie of the year candidate Mike Hoffman, they were born about 45 days apart.

People really need to get used to properly developing players, sometimes it means giving them more time than you expect.

Actually Kadri is a '90 birth, Hoffman '89.