This is Nazem Kadri's Chance.

[Daisy Jane]

I don't really disagree or have issue with much of what DJ wrote regarding Kadri there. The kid undoubtably takes more criticism than he deserves, but from other parties he's sometime given more excuses than he should be. There is a given and take there

I would say however regarding consistency and his play when he had had FLC opportunity. These things need to be taken within context. The only real extended period of time that Kadri had spent in top line duty, his second line center behind him was Trevor Smith and the bottom 6 weren't even quality AHLers. We were really hurting injury wise and that top unit was rightfully being smothered by the opposition

Consistency is a funny thing. How do you find it on a team full of inconsistent players?

lol that is true.like i said. There isn't anything I'm taking (or seeing) and going to fashion a hammer and smack Kadri with it. I feel he is - what he is. If there's more potential to show, then I hope he shows it.

I think everything will be taking into account - how he handles this contract negotiation, how he carries himself this season - how he performs this season and so on and so forth. It's not like we're going to be uber-talented for the foreseeable future either so I think anything like "well he's only playing with third liners" can't be utalised with an excuse. May hay with the sunshine you've got. (even if your sunshine is behind a cloud, so to speak).

[and - as I've argued, I don't think I'd be penciling in anyone from the Marlies forward wise making the jump up any time soon either].

I think if Kadri can play consistently (his own play and not depending on those around him) then i think he'll stick. I can see him getting some PK time because Babcock's rule is "you make them play PK"

I feel... that Kadri is auditioning to be the veteran on this team. There are other options (some might argue better/equal/worse) and he already has the backing of management. so his play will be the ultimate tie breaker.

 

[Menzinger]

Worth noting Wgg

The other thing I would like to mention is Shanny is taking the effort to try and make him fix his issues. This alone tells you they view him as part of the core or he would be gone by now due to whatever issue there is.

Worth noting that both Shanahan and Babcock have named Kadri when talking about the teams future.

If Shanahan had a major issue with Kadri they would have cut him loose like the Jets foolishly did with Kane

 

[Stephen]

I keep seeing people in this thread undervaluing the need for quality players that are experienced. Kadri, Gardiner & JVR might be close to 30 when this rebuild is starting to turn but that's ok because you need quality players with experience on your roster. Building a roster with a bunch of teenagers being thrown to the wolves is a disaster waiting to happen. That's Ballard era garbage.

I trust that Shanny isn't going to repeat the mistakes that teams like the Oilers made. We need players like Kadri, Gardiner, JVR , Bernier to be an insulating presence for our younger guys. One of the important jobs for Babcock starting THIS SEASON is getting those guys back on track. They seem to be a very underrated part of our rebuild for a lot of Leaf fans.

I think this is why we have people like Parenteau, Robidas, Winnik, Santorelli, etc. cycling through every year. I don't necessarily see Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier or JVR as vets who can insulate anyone yet, I see them more as auditioning for jobs with the future core, if they deserve to be there. A guy with issues like Kadri is more like a placeholder until further notice. Keeping the seat warm for Nylander and Marner, basically. Keep him around if he's good, but he's not a key part of the plan. At the very least, don't Alex Steen him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Worth noting Wgg

Worth noting that both Shanahan and Babcock have named Kadri when talking about the teams future.

If Shanahan had a major issue with Kadri they would have cut him loose like the Jets foolishly did with Kane

This is key, especially Shanahan. We don't know what the off ice issues are (expect that he was late once) or how serious they are. Shanahan does, and thinks Kadri could be a big part of the teams future. How this isn't be good enough for some people and isn't the end of the story is beyond me.

On the ice, he's been pretty darn good.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This is key, especially Shanahan. We don't know what the off ice issues are (expect that he was late once) or how serious they are. Shanahan does, and thinks Kadri could be a big part of the teams future. How this isn't be good enough for some people and isn't the end of the story is beyond me.

On the ice, he's been pretty darn good.

i think because of the underlined

I hope though this season, Kadri does make it the end.

 

[Gary Nylund]

i think because of the underlined

I hope though this season, Kadri does make it the end.

I don't mean end of story as in Kadri's gonna be a Leaf for the next 10 years. I mean end of story as far as why don't people stop posting crap about off ice issues and seeing what happens this season. Perhaps chill is the word I'm looking for?

 

[Trapper]

i think because of the underlined

I hope though this season, Kadri does make it the end.

They will all be given the opportunity.
With Kessel gone, every position/role is open for competition on this team.

However, this is still not the finished product. Current roster players Kadri/JVR/Gardiner may or may not be here in the end.
Look at the rebuilding Sabres.
In addition to what they added, they also moved out Zadorov(20),Grigorenko(21),Hodgson(25).
The mix is not set and we don't know what becomes available in 2-3-4 years.

 

[hobarth]

I don't mean end of story as in Kadri's gonna be a Leaf for the next 10 years. I mean end of story as far as why don't people stop posting crap about off ice issues and seeing what happens this season. Perhaps chill is the word I'm looking for?

I'm thinking that being chill about a player who couldn't unseat such a modest talent as Bozak is sufficient reason to get a little excited. Shany and Babcock may talk about Kadri as a future Leaf but I wouldn't be surprised if it would take little to shake him out of those plans.

As TO's 2nd line center Kadri is/was as much a part of TO's core as any player and just as responsible for the debacle that was last year. I personally couldn't care a less about his off ice issues so long as he can perform on the ice and from what I saw last year and the year before neither his on ice or off ice results warrant his return to the Leafs

The core needs to be changed, that includes Kadri.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm thinking that being chill about a player who couldn't unseat such a modest talent as Bozak is sufficient reason to get a little excited. Shany and Babcock may talk about Kadri as a future Leaf but I wouldn't be surprised if it would take little to shake him out of those plans.

As TO's 2nd line center Kadri is/was as much a part of TO's core as any player and just as responsible for the debacle that was last year. I personally couldn't care a less about his off ice issues so long as he can perform on the ice and from what I saw last year and the year before neither his on ice or off ice results warrant his return to the Leafs

The core needs to be changed, that includes Kadri.

this should be interesting.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm thinking that being chill about a player who couldn't unseat such a modest talent as Bozak is sufficient reason to get a little excited. Shany and Babcock may talk about Kadri as a future Leaf but I wouldn't be surprised if it would take little to shake him out of those plans.

As TO's 2nd line center Kadri is/was as much a part of TO's core as any player and just as responsible for the debacle that was last year. I personally couldn't care a less about his off ice issues so long as he can perform on the ice and from what I saw last year and the year before neither his on ice or off ice results warrant his return to the Leafs

The core needs to be changed, that includes Kadri.

I think many of us have been wondering what it might take to "unseat" Bozak. Kadri has been outplaying Bozak for years now, apparently that wasn't enough.

And if you don't think Kadri has been outplaying Bozak, then I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[mikebel111*]

I think many of us have been wondering what it might take to "unseat" Bozak. Kadri has been outplaying Bozak for years now, apparently that wasn't enough.

And if you don't think Kadri has been outplaying Bozak, then I really don't know what to tell you.

hey Bozak is elite defensively or at least I have heard yet he is a GA king year after year

while Kadri is all negative stuff just because.............. false reasons

Kadri has been a beauty on the ice, don't let some false narrative by the poster you quoted make you think otherwise

 

[mikebel111*]

I'm thinking that being chill about a player who couldn't unseat such a modest talent as Bozak is sufficient reason to get a little excited. Shany and Babcock may talk about Kadri as a future Leaf but I wouldn't be surprised if it would take little to shake him out of those plans.

As TO's 2nd line center Kadri is/was as much a part of TO's core as any player and just as responsible for the debacle that was last year. I personally couldn't care a less about his off ice issues so long as he can perform on the ice and from what I saw last year and the year before neither his on ice or off ice results warrant his return to the Leafs

The core needs to be changed, that includes Kadri.

Kadri has outplayed Bozak for many years but I know doesn't fit the narrative. Kadri needs to continue to play great

 

[burpsalot]

this should be interesting.

Shift over.

 

[Gary Nylund]

this should be interesting.

Shift over.

Nothing new here. Just old reruns I'm afraid.

 

[Purity*]

Kadri has outplayed Bozak for many years but I know doesn't fit the narrative. Kadri needs to continue to play great

Kadri's been on the 2nd line because he actually provides secondary scoring and his able to elevate production of his linemates.

Bozak's numbers away from Kessel are horrifying to say the least.

 

[TML1]

All this crap about Kadri's off ice issues is garbage. You all base your opinions on ridiculous speculation. Has Shanny come out and said point blank this is what we're dealing with? No! Why is everyone making such a big deal out of it? Kadri' probably one of the best characters on the team and he comes from a solid upbringing. Give the kid a break people!

 

[tml19]

I'm thinking that being chill about a player who couldn't unseat such a modest talent as Bozak is sufficient reason to get a little excited. Shany and Babcock may talk about Kadri as a future Leaf but I wouldn't be surprised if it would take little to shake him out of those plans.

As TO's 2nd line center Kadri is/was as much a part of TO's core as any player and just as responsible for the debacle that was last year. I personally couldn't care a less about his off ice issues so long as he can perform on the ice and from what I saw last year and the year before neither his on ice or off ice results warrant his return to the Leafs

The core needs to be changed, that includes Kadri.

Are you stuck that far in the past?? Teams do not stack all their talent on the #1 line anymore. 1 and 2 have even talent/scoring ability on the good teams to prevent opposition from simply sending out their primary shutdown line + 1D pairing. (TB, CHI before the last few games where they put Kane and Toews together) The leafs needed secondary scoring and Bozak would not elevate the play of his linemates, Kadri has that ability (Santo,Winnik)

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

All this crap about Kadri's off ice issues is garbage. You all base your opinions on ridiculous speculation. Has Shanny come out and said point blank this is what we're dealing with? No! Why is everyone making such a big deal out of it? Kadri' probably one of the best characters on the team and he comes from a solid upbringing. Give the kid a break people!

I'm sorry but the best character people on the team aren't suspended for ice off issues, that happened it's not some allegation, it's not slander, it's not some tabloid journalists opinion, it's what happened.

What has he done to deserve a break, you can't pick and choose what part of this rotten core is rotten, Kadri is not some young rookie, he's been a core member of this team the last two collapses.

Every year it's the same thing "it's not his fault he plays with scrubs" , "how can you expect someone to succeed with Clarkson?" Kessel played with Bozak and Joey Crabb and he still found a way to make them both look useful.

He has a great chance here to be a bright spot in a poor season, but stop pretending he's this great player, he's not he might have the potential to be but he's been average at best these last two seasons.

 

[mikebel111*]

All this crap about Kadri's off ice issues is garbage. You all base your opinions on ridiculous speculation. Has Shanny come out and said point blank this is what we're dealing with? No! Why is everyone making such a big deal out of it? Kadri' probably one of the best characters on the team and he comes from a solid upbringing. Give the kid a break people!

I agree with this. However not surprising someone comes up with the "It's never Kadri's fault, he is average" card. I think you might have made some people angry with your post about speaking logic, though one thing I know from Kadri threads, someone makes up stuff to fit a certain agenda.

Considering the Hunter's love good character, you have to think Kadri is a good character, it seems he has fixed whatever issues were off the ice.

The bad character's need to leave this team, Lupul [where is the latest fashion}, Bozak [I cant spell effort and defence.

I wonder what the excuses from the Bozak camp will be this time considering the "it's all Kessel's fault" excuse wont work. Though it seems very few teams are interested, Something tells me the offer the Leafs got was really bad so they declined

Kadri figures to be a huge part of this rebuild and looks like Babcock agrees

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I agree with this. However not surprising someone comes up with the "It's never Kadri's fault, he is average" card. I think you might have made some people angry with your post about speaking logic, though one thing I know from Kadri threads, someone makes up stuff to fit a certain agenda.

Considering the Hunter's love good character, you have to think Kadri is a good character, it seems he has fixed whatever issues were off the ice.

The bad character's need to leave this team, Lupul [where is the latest fashion}, Bozak [I cant spell effort and defence.

I wonder what the excuses from the Bozak camp will be this time considering the "it's all Kessel's fault" excuse wont work. Though it seems very few teams are interested, Something tells me the offer the Leafs got was really bad so they declined

Kadri figures to be a huge part of this rebuild and looks like Babcock agrees

There is little point debating or even discussing something with a zealot, believe what you like just stop passing off fantasy as reality.

For what it's worth I hope Kadri has fixed his issues and I hope he has a good season I'm just not blind to his flaws.

 

[Mitchy]

I'm sorry but the best character people on the team aren't suspended for ice off issues, that happened it's not some allegation, it's not slander, it's not some tabloid journalists opinion, it's what happened.

What has he done to deserve a break, you can't pick and choose what part of this rotten core is rotten, Kadri is not some young rookie, he's been a core member of this team the last two collapses.

Every year it's the same thing "it's not his fault he plays with scrubs" , "how can you expect someone to succeed with Clarkson?" Kessel played with Bozak and Joey Crabb and he still found a way to make them both look useful.

He has a great chance here to be a bright spot in a poor season, but stop pretending he's this great player, he's not he might have the potential to be but he's been average at best these last two seasons.

A bunch of things as explained in previous posts. For instance, he faces the toughest competition and gets mostly defensive zone starts, yet people complain about his production. Increase his o-zone starts, increase his pp time (this is an absolute must, as he is already amazing at even strength) and give him lighter competition and production will increase a lot. I personally hope he continues to face the toughest competition, because that will help him grow as a player.

Also, he's a great possession player on an awful possession team (Babs will love him) . That right there makes him incredibly valuable. Not to mention, he's grown greatly in regards to his defensive ability. He's now our best two-way forward.

All those things are why he deserves a break.

Finally, comparing Kadri to Kessel is silly. Kessel is a pure offensive player, while Kadri is a two-way player. Kessel is also an elite offensive player (one of the best in the league), while Kadri is not (he is still good offensively, though). Very, very few players elevate other players' production as much as Kessel does. Also, for what it's worth, pretty much every player plays better with Kadri.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Right. and I am not diminishing that for one moment.

However - and I am going to stand by my statement. I personally - do no think Kadri is going to be here like... 6-10 years into the future. I could be wrong - I don't have a crystal ball or anything, and unlike the hyperbole of him not being a #1 all star centre or things like that.

There is often a lot of turnaround when building a championship team from the beginning, and Kadri could very easily be caught up in said turnaround. So could Jake. Heck - so could Rielly, if we're going to be honest, lest anyone calls me biased.

I think whatever happened with the Shanahan Shanaban (tehee), was Kadri's wake up call, (and one could even say last chance per-se). I am not going to speculate what it was (though going by what was said in that time, it's apparent what happened), and there was a pattern. I lay some of it on Kadri's feet - but again, I put it on management not to curtail it (as there was - said pattern).

If Naz doesn't take what happened to heart, it doesn't matter if he only played with Winnik, or Clarkson or Santorelli, because that's not why he would have been traded, (among other things, like lack of consistency, etc).

As much as I don't like Bozak, the two times that Naz had a chance to actually show/prove he could handle first line duties - it did not go so well. I know people keep going "well face offs don't mean much" - and I know that he was roughly around (slightly below) league average, but Babcock preaches puck possession, and a key part of puck possession is off the faceoff. He has to be stronger here.

If Kadri can put it all together and be a good addition to this team (wherever he plays) - then that's good enough for me, and I truly hope he does. If he proves me wrong and is better than that, then double yay. As of right now, I don't think so.

Correction, face offs are not a huge part of possession. They are in fact small part of possession. As the article below I posted states, there is no relstionshipmbetween possession and faceeoffs thus far with the numbers tracked. But even if there was one that hasn't been found yet, Kadri still has a much bigger impact on possession than any of our centres.

When he was with Kessel, their games looked quite different but they produced at the same average rate Bozak and Kessel did. Kadri would have certainly enhanced the first line defensively and possession wise. A 2 game sample or 10 game sample is very, very small.

www.hockeywilderness.com/2014/11/6/7155985/faceoffs-nhl-possession-correlation-do-faceoffs-matter

 

[Suntouchable13]

Kadri has only been "great" in comparison to the trash heap that we had around him (especially at the centre position). He wouldn't crack the top 6 on many good teams' rosters. I just don't see how he has been that good at all when comparing him to the rest of the league.

I am about to rustle some jimmies with this, but that's OK. We all have our own opinions.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I'm sorry but the best character people on the team aren't suspended for ice off issues, that happened it's not some allegation, it's not slander, it's not some tabloid journalists opinion, it's what happened.

What has he done to deserve a break, you can't pick and choose what part of this rotten core is rotten, Kadri is not some young rookie, he's been a core member of this team the last two collapses.

Every year it's the same thing "it's not his fault he plays with scrubs" , "how can you expect someone to succeed with Clarkson?" Kessel played with Bozak and Joey Crabb and he still found a way to make them both look useful.

He has a great chance here to be a bright spot in a poor season, but stop pretending he's this great player, he's not he might have the potential to be but he's been average at best these last two seasons.

But that's where you're wrong... He made Clarkson, Booth, Panik, etc look all better than what they actually were. Kadri has made every single player he has played with better' (stats agree) and here you are making an acquisition against Kadri not making everyone better? I'm sorry, then JVR must be below average because he certainly hasn't made an impact like Kadri or Kessel on players.

No one is pretending when everything points to him being an elite 2C and a capable 1C DURing the rebuild. Just because the way he plays is different than the Kessels line one dimensional offense, doesn't make him any less of a great plaayer. If you look at any other team 1st line' they center their team around their best possession, two way forward with offensive talent. Gaborik and Kopitar didn't mesh at first, but then they came around to be a great duo.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Correction, face offs are not a huge part of possession. They are in fact small part of possession. As the article below I posted states, there is no relstionshipmbetween possession and faceeoffs thus far with the numbers tracked. But even if there was one that hasn't been found yet, Kadri still has a much bigger impact on possession than any of our centres.

When he was with Kessel, their games looked quite different but they produced at the same average rate Bozak and Kessel did. Kadri would have certainly enhanced the first line defensively and possession wise. A 2 game sample or 10 game sample is very, very small.

www.hockeywilderness.com/2014/11/6/7155985/faceoffs-nhl-possession-correlation-do-faceoffs-matter

thank you for that correction.

however - I would also think - if you win said faceoff, you start off with the puck sooner and easier to set up your play, rather than starting behind the play like the Leafs often do.