This is Nazem Kadri's Chance.

[LeafingTheWay]

I'm not sure what everyone think Kadri's problem is. He's proven his performance based on analytics that he has everything you want. The ONLY problem is faceoffs (Which were league average) and that his point totals isn't higher. WHAT on earth would you expect from playing him 2C beside offensively-challenged players in Winnik, Clarkson, Panik, Booth, etc? A player could do a million things right and not up points, and everyone would be still messing with that player. If Kadri puts up the best point totals for our centers as a 2C even-strength, would more would you expect from him carrying his line? He's not going to be a 60 point player playing beside a Clarkson/Booth/Winnik etc.

If ALL you care about is points, play him beside offensive players and in offensive situations. His pts/60 clearly indicate he'll get more points in more offensive situations. Don't go complaining that he doesn't produce like a 1C, by playing him in defensive situations (despite his 'lack offaceoffs talent', beside offensively useless players, and no PP time (Extra 15 points to even-strength easily).

It's no wonder some people were happy about the Clarkson signing or even looking at signing Beleskly. 'Oh look, he put up so many points! Lets sign him!'

Look at the analytics and see if a player has the ability to produce more. Clarkson's analytics were the biggest indicators of no sustainability and future failure. In this case, Kadri obviously can produce more if given more productive ice time (As evidenced by his 1st line rate pts/60 for 2012-2015).

 

[81Reasons]

not expecting to much from Kadri to be honest. He's had the blue and white disease from day 1. At least this year Bozak (I assume) will be gone and Kadri will have nothing preventing him from elevating his game.

If he can't be a top line player on this team now it will speak volumes.

 

[Mitchy]

I'm not sure what everyone think Kadri's problem is. He's proven his performance based on analytics that he has everything you want. The ONLY problem is faceoffs (Which were league average) and that his point totals isn't higher. WHAT on earth would you expect from playing him 2C beside offensively-challenged players in Winnik, Clarkson, Panik, Booth, etc? A player could do a million things right and not up points, and everyone would be still messing with that player. If Kadri puts up the best point totals for our centers as a 2C even-strength, would more would you expect from him carrying his line? He's not going to be a 60 point player playing beside a Clarkson/Booth/Winnik etc.

If ALL you care about is points, play him beside offensive players and in offensive situations. His pts/60 clearly indicate he'll get more points in more offensive situations. Don't go complaining that he doesn't produce like a 1C, by playing him in defensive situations (despite his 'lack offaceoffs talent', beside offensively useless players, and no PP time (Extra 15 points to even-strength easily).

It's no wonder some people were happy about the Clarkson signing or even looking at signing Beleskly. 'Oh look, he put up so many points! Lets sign him!'

Look at the analytics and see if a player has the ability to produce more. Clarkson's analytics were the biggest indicators of no sustainability and future failure. In this case, Kadri obviously can produce more if given more productive ice time (As evidenced by his 1st line rate pts/60 for 2012-2015).

Good post.

Feel bad for Kadri. Gets so much undeserved criticism. I have never witnessed a fanbase unfairly criticize a good, young player like Kadri, more than us. He's already a good second line center. He has terrific underlying stats that suggest if he would get more pp time and play with some players who can actually score (ex. NOT Clarkson), that his production will increase. Kadri's good defensively, while being good offensively as well. Don't what people expect from him. The most interesting thing of all is, JVR -a guy who was privileged enough to play with Kessel, doesn't hustle nearly as much as Kadri, sucks defensively and gets top pp time - escapes a lot of the criticism that Kadri gets.

 

[Simcoe23]

Good post.

Feel bad for Kadri. Gets so much undeserved criticism. I have never witnessed a fanbase unfairly criticize a good, young player like Kadri, more than us. He's already a good second line center. He has terrific underlying stats that suggest if he would get more pp time and play with some players who can actually score (ex. NOT Clarkson), that his production will increase. Kadri's good defensively, while being good offensively as well. Don't what people expect from him. The most interesting thing of all is, JVR -a guy who was privileged enough to play with Kessel, doesn't hustle nearly as much as Kadri, sucks defensively and gets top pp time - escapes a lot of the criticism that Kadri gets.

Well stated- agree completely.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Good post.

Feel bad for Kadri. Gets so much undeserved criticism. I have never witnessed a fanbase unfairly criticize a good, young player like Kadri, more than us. He's already a good second line center. He has terrific underlying stats that suggest if he would get more pp time and play with some players who can actually score (ex. NOT Clarkson), that his production will increase. Kadri's good defensively, while being good offensively as well. Don't what people expect from him. The most interesting thing of all is, JVR -a guy who was privileged enough to play with Kessel, doesn't hustle nearly as much as Kadri, sucks defensively and gets top pp time - escapes a lot of the criticism that Kadri gets.

Did you not see the "JVR should be traded?" thread?

I think that Kadri is just that. a good young player. he's nothing better than that - nor is he anything worse than that. I think he's okay. I do think he's a bit entitled and that he is better than he is. (i do get it a part of it is sports related) - and maybe that's what people glom onto.

I don't think he's going to be here in the future (ie: phased out) if I'm wrong. yay.

 

[Pholus]

I think most people are missing the boat on this one. There won't be much of a team left to anchor. Jonathan Toews would have a tough time making this team look good.

Sooo much this. Sure, in a vacuum Kadri might be able to produce ~60pts on a line with JVR & (a healthy) Lupul. However, when your 2nd line is something like Panik-Holland-Parenteau(or maybe Winnik/Arcobello/Frattin), teams will realize that Kadri's line is the only one that can consistently score. If Kadri is able to continue to improve defensively, and at the same time produce over 50 pts while constantly playing against the opponents' best defensive group, I will be extremely impressed.

 

[Mitchy]

Did you not see the "JVR should be traded?" thread?

I think that Kadri is just that. a good young player. he's nothing better than that - nor is he anything worse than that. I think he's okay. I do think he's a bit entitled and that he is better than he is. (i do get it a part of it is sports related) - and maybe that's what people glom onto.

I don't think he's going to be here in the future (ie: phased out) if I'm wrong. yay.

Why do you say that?

I know a lot of people disliked when Kadri compared himself to Tavares, but I personally, liked that. He praised Tavares, and said that he wants to be like him. Don't see anything wrong with that. I wish more of our players had his confidence and swagger. Really excited to see him under Babs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why do you say that?

I know a lot of people disliked when Kadri compared himself to Tavares, but I personally, liked that. He praised Tavares, and said that he wants to be like him. Don't see anything wrong with that. I wish more of our players had his confidence and swagger. Really excited to see him under Babs.

It's not even the Tavares thing. But... I think it was just thinking he didn't need to go back to Junior (though it benefited him), or he had this air of that he didn't need to spend time with the Marlies (though it benefited him). Just little things. Nothing that I would personally take and hammer him over the head with - just that he feels he doesn't have to go through his paces.

We will see what he does this season. again - I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

[mikebel111*]

It's not even the Tavares thing. But... I think it was just thinking he didn't need to go back to Junior (though it benefited him), or he had this air of that he didn't need to spend time with the Marlies (though it benefited him). Just little things. Nothing that I would personally take and hammer him over the head with - just that he feels he doesn't have to go through his paces.

We will see what he does this season. again - I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

what what what what what?

please tell me this is made up stuff again. Come on Daisy I expect better posts

When he was sent back to junior, he handled it as well as someone could.

watch this video, yeah looks like a kid who was sulking about being demoted

https://www.youtube.com/

here is a quote by Nazem.
"Everyone had some doubts about me coming into camp and I think I proved a lot of people wrong and opened some eyes. The bottom line, at the end of the day, I'm being sent back and I have no problem with that. I just have to keep my head held high."
yeah some entitlement right there


than your 2nd false criticism

He has never ever sulked about being sent down continuously to the Marlies. He just accepted it and went to continue to improve. So I guess what Eakins said about always having a good attitude is him lying.

your also implying he has made it to this point because of talent so far. wrong so very wrong. Management asks him to get bigger, he does that [no but of course he doesn't care about improving]. They say he needs to clear up turnovers, he does that [no but of course no care of trying, just talent because logic]

How can anyone with a straight face say he doesn't really care? [you kind of implied that]. According to his twitter and many articles [he has tried to improve and get bigger]. He went to train with Roberts [a huge sign he just goes through the paces, what ever that is supposed to even mean? I mean what player who doesn't care would train with Roberts?


Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

 

[Daisy Jane]

Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

It's what I heard. and the fact that you totally bypassed the next point that I said of "it's not even something I'd hammer him over the head with." to tell me how I'm making things up, or having an agenda, kinda irks. Trust me. I have better things to do with my time than make things up over a player.

I personally feel he was/is a little entitled. I heard instances of things that I said from media people that I trust (so not Simmons or Feschuk). think a lot of things went un-reported behind the scenes that escalated with the Shanaban (which to me wasn't just about being late for a meeting, because Kadri said it was the first time - and I don't think he lied about that) I wasn't around here for a lot of Kadri's beginning years, I was over-seas or writing my thesis so a lot of Kadri's first few years in Toronto, I only have reports, and articles and radio stuff to go by on.

I don't "hate" Kadri. I also don't think he's going to be here long term. My opinion. I have also stated if Kadri proves me wrong, I'd more than be happy. So whatever you thought I was insinuating (ie: he doesn't care - which I didn't, whatsoever). I wasn't.

 

[yubbers]

Him and his crew are the biggest bros you'll ever meet.

I don't have a problem with him until he asks for 6 million. Cause he will if he puts up 50 points this year. And he has all the opportunity to do so.

 

[LV*]

Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

I need you to tell me this is a joke. Please be a joke.

 

[TML1]

Well at least he has my boy Winnik to help him out against top competition.

What a good time to get his chance.

He better come fit and ready cause that's one huge mountain in his face.

Yeah that's what we need Winnik on the 1st line.

 

[TML1]

what what what what what?

please tell me this is made up stuff again. Come on Daisy I expect better posts

When he was sent back to junior, he handled it as well as someone could.

watch this video, yeah looks like a kid who was sulking about being demoted

https://www.youtube.com/

here is a quote by Nazem.
"Everyone had some doubts about me coming into camp and I think I proved a lot of people wrong and opened some eyes. The bottom line, at the end of the day, I'm being sent back and I have no problem with that. I just have to keep my head held high."
yeah some entitlement right there

than your 2nd false criticism

He has never ever sulked about being sent down continuously to the Marlies. He just accepted it and went to continue to improve. So I guess what Eakins said about always having a good attitude is him lying.

your also implying he has made it to this point because of talent so far. wrong so very wrong. Management asks him to get bigger, he does that [no but of course he doesn't care about improving]. They say he needs to clear up turnovers, he does that [no but of course no care of trying, just talent because logic]

How can anyone with a straight face say he doesn't really care? [you kind of implied that]. According to his twitter and many articles [he has tried to improve and get bigger]. He went to train with Roberts [a huge sign he just goes through the paces, what ever that is supposed to even mean? I mean what player who doesn't care would train with Roberts?


Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

 

[HellasLEAF]

he's still too soft. needs to get stronger.

the skill is there.

 

[nsleaf]

what what what what what?

please tell me this is made up stuff again. Come on Daisy I expect better posts

When he was sent back to junior, he handled it as well as someone could.

watch this video, yeah looks like a kid who was sulking about being demoted

https://www.youtube.com/

here is a quote by Nazem.
"Everyone had some doubts about me coming into camp and I think I proved a lot of people wrong and opened some eyes. The bottom line, at the end of the day, I'm being sent back and I have no problem with that. I just have to keep my head held high."
yeah some entitlement right there


than your 2nd false criticism

He has never ever sulked about being sent down continuously to the Marlies. He just accepted it and went to continue to improve. So I guess what Eakins said about always having a good attitude is him lying.

your also implying he has made it to this point because of talent so far. wrong so very wrong. Management asks him to get bigger, he does that [no but of course he doesn't care about improving]. They say he needs to clear up turnovers, he does that [no but of course no care of trying, just talent because logic]

How can anyone with a straight face say he doesn't really care? [you kind of implied that]. According to his twitter and many articles [he has tried to improve and get bigger]. He went to train with Roberts [a huge sign he just goes through the paces, what ever that is supposed to even mean? I mean what player who doesn't care would train with Roberts?


Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

Can people have a different opinion than yours?

 

[Trapper]

Did you not see the "JVR should be traded?" thread?

I think that Kadri is just that. a good young player. he's nothing better than that - nor is he anything worse than that. I think he's okay. I do think he's a bit entitled and that he is better than he is. (i do get it a part of it is sports related) - and maybe that's what people glom onto.

I don't think he's going to be here in the future (ie: phased out) if I'm wrong. yay.

If it takes us 5 years to collect and assemble what should be our new core, JVR will be 31 and Kadri 30.
Rielly will be 25. (This is probably the prime age).
Not to mention during this 5 year time, JVRs contract will expire (and I wouldn't be paying him 6 million/year). JVR would be moved in the last year of his contract (or sooner if he isn't fitting for maximum return).
Same goes for Kadri. He needs a contract now and will probably need another as we put together the players we are drafting. This will also be a deciding factor. If we end up with a Matthews,Marner/Nylander,Gauthier center group, Kadri will probably be moved for other help.
We will see.

 

[ULF_55]

It's what I heard. and the fact that you totally bypassed the next point that I said of "it's not even something I'd hammer him over the head with." to tell me how I'm making things up, or having an agenda, kinda irks. Trust me. I have better things to do with my time than make things up over a player.

I personally feel he was/is a little entitled. I heard instances of things that I said from media people that I trust (so not Simmons or Feschuk). think a lot of things went un-reported behind the scenes that escalated with the Shanaban (which to me wasn't just about being late for a meeting, because Kadri said it was the first time - and I don't think he lied about that) I wasn't around here for a lot of Kadri's beginning years, I was over-seas or writing my thesis so a lot of Kadri's first few years in Toronto, I only have reports, and articles and radio stuff to go by on.

I don't "hate" Kadri. I also don't think he's going to be here long term. My opinion. I have also stated if Kadri proves me wrong, I'd more than be happy. So whatever you thought I was insinuating (ie: he doesn't care - which I didn't, whatsoever). I wasn't.

You have it right DJ and you aren't alone.

Additionally, Shanahan saw a player who has issues that need to be corrected.

If you and I aren't close enough to call him out, Shanahan and management certainly are closer than anyone here.

Management made the call, and it wasn't because he was late once.

This point verifies your position, he was not suspended for being late once.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...hangs-in-balance-after-suspension-arthur.html

“There’s more to this, obviously,†said Shanahan, in a rare and hastily-announced media scrum. “If this were just a case of Nazem being 15 minutes late for a meeting one time, yes, then you could probably sweep this under the rug and handle this internally and maybe take the guys out to lunch or something like that. The easiest thing for us to do at this point would be sweep it under the rug and put this off to the off-season to deal with, but Naz is an important part of our future.

“We like Nazem Kadri, his teammates like him. We expect a certain level of professionalism. It’s time for him to start making better decisions. There’s a history here. And there comes a point in the careers of many hockey players (in) similar situations. But there comes a point where you’ve got to grow up.â€

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=757852

The Maple Leafs originally made Kadri a healthy scratch for Monday's game against the New York Islanders. That day, the centre said he had apologized to teammates and coaches for what he called an "uncharacteristic" mistake.

But on Wednesday, Leafs president Brendan Shanahan extended Kadri's suspension to the next two games, saying the London, Ont., native's problems went beyond being late for Sunday's meeting.

"It's time for him to start making better decisions," Shanahan said Wednesday morning at Air Canada Centre.

Shanahan also said Wednesday that Kadri would be available to play Saturday at the Vancouver Canucks "if things go well."

He said it was an "uncharacteristic" mistake, Shanahan suspends him because of history.

In Kadri's defense, it is quite possible the leadership of the Leafs players has been so lacking that Kadri has never grown up. He actually thought it was just sleeping in when in fact that was just the tipping point.

Let's hope Hunter has identified leadership in the draft, and that Tavares is an example that you can find it in London.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ork-islander-teammates-in-1st-year-as-captain

Tavares 2 years ago:

But Tavares works harder at being a great hockey player than anybody, and that has earned him the respect of Islanders rookies and veterans alike. The one thing that all Isles players agreed on when asked about their captain was that he leads primarily by example. Monday at practice, he was once again one of the last players off the ice.

“His work ethic speaks for itself, and the way that he prepares to play the game is second to none,†said linemate Kyle Okposo. “From everything that I’ve seen, he really doesn’t leave much to chance. He works hard to be in the best physical condition. Mentally also he’s a student of the game. We can all learn from him.â€

It isn't age related, it is an internal drive.

We have yet to see if Kadri has that in him.

Shanahan has given him a nudge let's see if he truly got the message.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

what what what what what?

please tell me this is made up stuff again. Come on Daisy I expect better posts

When he was sent back to junior, he handled it as well as someone could.

watch this video, yeah looks like a kid who was sulking about being demoted

https://www.youtube.com/

here is a quote by Nazem.
"Everyone had some doubts about me coming into camp and I think I proved a lot of people wrong and opened some eyes. The bottom line, at the end of the day, I'm being sent back and I have no problem with that. I just have to keep my head held high."
yeah some entitlement right there


than your 2nd false criticism

He has never ever sulked about being sent down continuously to the Marlies. He just accepted it and went to continue to improve. So I guess what Eakins said about always having a good attitude is him lying.

your also implying he has made it to this point because of talent so far. wrong so very wrong. Management asks him to get bigger, he does that [no but of course he doesn't care about improving]. They say he needs to clear up turnovers, he does that [no but of course no care of trying, just talent because logic]

How can anyone with a straight face say he doesn't really care? [you kind of implied that]. According to his twitter and many articles [he has tried to improve and get bigger]. He went to train with Roberts [a huge sign he just goes through the paces, what ever that is supposed to even mean? I mean what player who doesn't care would train with Roberts?


Can people stop making stuff up just because it fits a false narrative? Than when one of the boards better posters starts as well, that is pretty sad to hear

What is she making up exactly? I am confused. Further The video you posted was when Kadri was 18. He will be 25 this October. This is not a young prospect anymore. I think most Leafs fans here expect a 7th overall pick to mature and progress to be an established core piece by now. If Kadri is not capable of this, then as the thread suggests, this may be his last chance. Shanahan expects more professionalism. Babcock will demand it. The rest is up to Kadri. It's not about talent with this new Mgt group. We just traded, practically gave away our most talented player. It is about commitment, doing the right things as a pro with this new regime.

 

[MJ65]

The talent is there, no question about it and it's up to the coaches and the management how to use it

Under right environment and situation, he is a 60-65 point producer (we will see), he is one of your best player on this roster and is going to get better going forward

 

[tooncesmeow]

Good post.

Feel bad for Kadri. Gets so much undeserved criticism. I have never witnessed a fanbase unfairly criticize a good, young player like Kadri, more than us. He's already a good second line center. He has terrific underlying stats that suggest if he would get more pp time and play with some players who can actually score (ex. NOT Clarkson), that his production will increase. Kadri's good defensively, while being good offensively as well. Don't what people expect from him. The most interesting thing of all is, JVR -a guy who was privileged enough to play with Kessel, doesn't hustle nearly as much as Kadri, sucks defensively and gets top pp time - escapes a lot of the criticism that Kadri gets.

Thing is people here love to shred up prospects because draft position = definitive placement.

People expect a #8 to translate to an all star center #1 of the future. Or at least it seems like that.

People also seem to think a guy who had to play with people suited for the 3rd line is a guy who sucks and should be booted. They also seem to think a guy like that was a winger because he started in the NHL as that until he got moved to center in 2013 and they suddenly shut up. Funny story they're still doing that same thing to NYlander and Marner both who have been said can totally play center.

 

[tml19]

The other thing I would like to mention is Shanny is taking the effort to try and make him fix his issues. This alone tells you they view him as part of the core or he would be gone by now due to whatever issue there is.

 

[Mike1]

I keep seeing people in this thread undervaluing the need for quality players that are experienced. Kadri, Gardiner & JVR might be close to 30 when this rebuild is starting to turn but that's ok because you need quality players with experience on your roster. Building a roster with a bunch of teenagers being thrown to the wolves is a disaster waiting to happen. That's Ballard era garbage.

I trust that Shanny isn't going to repeat the mistakes that teams like the Oilers made. We need players like Kadri, Gardiner, JVR , Bernier to be an insulating presence for our younger guys. One of the important jobs for Babcock starting THIS SEASON is getting those guys back on track. They seem to be a very underrated part of our rebuild for a lot of Leaf fans.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The other thing I would like to mention is Shanny is taking the effort to try and make him fix his issues. This alone tells you they view him as part of the core or he would be gone by now due to whatever issue there is.

Right. and I am not diminishing that for one moment.

However - and I am going to stand by my statement. I personally - do no think Kadri is going to be here like... 6-10 years into the future. I could be wrong - I don't have a crystal ball or anything, and unlike the hyperbole of him not being a #1 all star centre or things like that.

There is often a lot of turnaround when building a championship team from the beginning, and Kadri could very easily be caught up in said turnaround. So could Jake. Heck - so could Rielly, if we're going to be honest, lest anyone calls me biased.

I think whatever happened with the Shanahan Shanaban (tehee), was Kadri's wake up call, (and one could even say last chance per-se). I am not going to speculate what it was (though going by what was said in that time, it's apparent what happened), and there was a pattern. I lay some of it on Kadri's feet - but again, I put it on management not to curtail it (as there was - said pattern).

If Naz doesn't take what happened to heart, it doesn't matter if he only played with Winnik, or Clarkson or Santorelli, because that's not why he would have been traded, (among other things, like lack of consistency, etc).

As much as I don't like Bozak, the two times that Naz had a chance to actually show/prove he could handle first line duties - it did not go so well. I know people keep going "well face offs don't mean much" - and I know that he was roughly around (slightly below) league average, but Babcock preaches puck possession, and a key part of puck possession is off the faceoff. He has to be stronger here.

If Kadri can put it all together and be a good addition to this team (wherever he plays) - then that's good enough for me, and I truly hope he does. If he proves me wrong and is better than that, then double yay. As of right now, I don't think so.

 

[Sypher04]

I don't really disagree or have issue with much of what DJ wrote regarding Kadri there. The kid undoubtably takes more criticism than he deserves, but from other parties he's sometime given more excuses than he should be. There is a given and take there

I would say however regarding consistency and his play when he had had FLC opportunity. These things need to be taken within context. The only real extended period of time that Kadri had spent in top line duty, his second line center behind him was Trevor Smith and the bottom 6 weren't even quality AHLers. We were really hurting injury wise and that top unit was rightfully being smothered by the opposition

Consistency is a funny thing. How do you find it on a team full of inconsistent players?