This franchise is an absolute mess right now

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,286
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Mighty Taco, NY
If it takes you 69 games to figure out Jordan Nolan is trash, maybe you shouldn't be an NHL coach?
I'll give Housley a pass on that one, considering ROR and Reinhart even forgot the season started until after Thanksgiving. Literally, the entire team was trash besides Eichel and Kane up to a certain point. Hard to get too upset that he gave the benefit of the doubt a little too long when it came to picking out the turdiest turd.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,116
7,249
Czech Republic
Stanley cup winning coach Darryl Sutter played him 64 games in 13-14.

This is a pointless conversation. No one likes Nolan. It would have been great if someone else had his minutes. Him playing games for the Sabres is questionable, but doesn't define Housley as a bad coach or Botterill as a bad GM.
Nolan had 53% Corsi in 2013-14 compared to 43% in 2017-18 even though his relative possession impact was worse on the Kings. That's the difference between Sutter and Housley.
 
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OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,252
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Lol, what's the strawman? I didn't skew anything.

You listed 8 players Dan supposedly had success with, despite the fact that only 3 of them played significant minutes under Dan his last year.

Yes, you said "on the team at some point" but again that doesn't help your argument. Saying Dan had to deal with Meszaros and other guys that played on tank teams doesn't really make Dan look better because they still finished last.

Dan didn't have Meszaros on his roster anyway. But Buffalo also didn't finish last in any of the seasons Dan

55Rasmus RistolainenD829324133-21----------Finland: Turku20
5Chad RuhwedelD100020----------CA: San Diego25
47Zach BogosianD647172468-11----------NY: Massena25
46Cody FransonD594131726-5----------BC: Sicamous28
4Josh GorgesD772101272-7----------BC: Kelowna31
34Casey NelsonD704481----------MN: Stillwater23
25Carlo ColaiacovoD3614510-11----------ONT: Toronto32
6Mike Weber 2D35145323----------PA: Pittsburgh27
3Mark PysykD551101132-1----------ALTA: Sherwood Park23
29Jake McCabeD7741014516----------WI: Eau Claire21
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

38Taylor FedunD27077163----------ALTA: Edmonton28
41Justin FalkD5208829-3----------MAN: Snowflake27
55Rasmus RistolainenD796394558-9----------Finland: Turku21
47Zach BogosianD56291146-17----------NY: Massena26
45Brendan GuhleD300001----------ALTA: Edmonton19
4Josh GorgesD6615650-3----------BC: Kelowna32
67Brady AustinD500040----------ONT: Bobcaygeon23
6Cody FransonD683161934-5----------BC: Sicamous29
29Jake McCabeD763172026-7----------WI: Eau Claire22
77Dmitri KulikovD4723526-26----------Russia: Lipetsk25
46Erik BurgdoerferD20000-1----------PA: Abington27
34Casey NelsonD110004-3----------MN: Stillwater24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster D with Housley:

45Brendan GuhleD1805510-6----------ALTA: Edmonton20
5Matt TennysonD150008-8----------MN: Minneapolis27
55Rasmus RistolainenD736354148-25----------Finland: Turku22
6Marco ScandellaD825172237-15----------PQ: Montreal27
19Jake McCabeD53391226-11----------WI: Eau Claire23
38Zach RedmondD300021----------MI: Traverse City29
41Justin FalkD4611228-16----------MAN: Snowflake28
47Zach BogosianD1801120-9----------NY: Massena27
27Taylor FedunD70112-1----------ALTA: Edmonton29
82Nathan BeaulieuD5918936-19----------ONT: Strathroy24
4Josh GorgesD3402217-4----------BC: Kelowna33
8Casey NelsonD373588-14----------MN: Stillwater25
93Viktor AntipinD470101018-9----------Kazakhstan: Ust-Kamenogorsk24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Think we can all agree it's tough to have a D-Corp that is stable when you have 7 instances(Risto 3 x, McCabe 2x) of guys playing 70+ games in 3 years.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,116
7,249
Czech Republic
I'll give Housley a pass on that one, considering ROR and Reinhart even forgot the season started until after Thanksgiving. Literally, the entire team was trash besides Eichel and Kane up to a certain point. Hard to get too upset that he gave the benefit of the doubt a little too long when it came to picking out the turdiest turd.
Housley should NOT be getting a pass for that. He was a big part of the issue.
 

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,286
1,319
Mighty Taco, NY
Housley should NOT be getting a pass for that. He was a big part of the issue.
Because he put the one other functional forward on Eichel's wing?

EDIT: Besides, I meant I was giving him a pass on not realizing Nolan's lacking ability when the entire team lacked ability. Not necessarily a pass for ROR and Reinharts bad start to the season.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,252
6,716
I'll give Housley a pass on that one, considering ROR and Reinhart even forgot the season started until after Thanksgiving. Literally, the entire team was trash besides Eichel and Kane up to a certain point. Hard to get too upset that he gave the benefit of the doubt a little too long when it came to picking out the turdiest turd.

So you're giving a pass to Nolan's season, because everyone else was bad? We're just going to forgive Nolan's season because hey, he's not counted on anyways like the other guys are...Except ROR and Reinhart were able to right themselves, while Nolan continued to struggle to play competitive hockey.
 

jc17

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
11,031
7,760
Nolan had 53% Corsi in 2013-14 compared to 43% in 2017-18 even though his relative possession impact was worse on the Kings. That's the difference between Sutter and Housley.

Now that's a pretty extreme statement.

First, what do you think the team's corsi would have been last year if Sutter was the coach?

Second, if Nolan's relative impact was worse with the kings, he shouldn't have played 64 games. You can't have it both ways.
 

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,286
1,319
Mighty Taco, NY
So you're giving a pass to Nolan's season, because everyone else was bad? We're just going to forgive Nolan's season because hey, he's not counted on anyways like the other guys are...Except ROR and Reinhart were able to right themselves, while Nolan continued to struggle to play competitive hockey.
And he was benched for it.
 

Gabrielor

"Win with us or watch us win." - Rasmus Dahlin
Jun 28, 2011
13,379
13,873
Buffalo, NY
Dan didn't have Meszaros on his roster anyway. But Buffalo also didn't finish last in any of the seasons Dan

55Rasmus RistolainenD829324133-21----------Finland: Turku20
5Chad RuhwedelD100020----------CA: San Diego25
47Zach BogosianD647172468-11----------NY: Massena25
46Cody FransonD594131726-5----------BC: Sicamous28
4Josh GorgesD772101272-7----------BC: Kelowna31
34Casey NelsonD704481----------MN: Stillwater23
25Carlo ColaiacovoD3614510-11----------ONT: Toronto32
6Mike Weber 2D35145323----------PA: Pittsburgh27
3Mark PysykD551101132-1----------ALTA: Sherwood Park23
29Jake McCabeD7741014516----------WI: Eau Claire21
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
38Taylor FedunD27077163----------ALTA: Edmonton28
41Justin FalkD5208829-3----------MAN: Snowflake27
55Rasmus RistolainenD796394558-9----------Finland: Turku21
47Zach BogosianD56291146-17----------NY: Massena26
45Brendan GuhleD300001----------ALTA: Edmonton19
4Josh GorgesD6615650-3----------BC: Kelowna32
67Brady AustinD500040----------ONT: Bobcaygeon23
6Cody FransonD683161934-5----------BC: Sicamous29
29Jake McCabeD763172026-7----------WI: Eau Claire22
77Dmitri KulikovD4723526-26----------Russia: Lipetsk25
46Erik BurgdoerferD20000-1----------PA: Abington27
34Casey NelsonD110004-3----------MN: Stillwater24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Roster D with Housley:

45Brendan GuhleD1805510-6----------ALTA: Edmonton20
5Matt TennysonD150008-8----------MN: Minneapolis27
55Rasmus RistolainenD736354148-25----------Finland: Turku22
6Marco ScandellaD825172237-15----------PQ: Montreal27
19Jake McCabeD53391226-11----------WI: Eau Claire23
38Zach RedmondD300021----------MI: Traverse City29
41Justin FalkD4611228-16----------MAN: Snowflake28
47Zach BogosianD1801120-9----------NY: Massena27
27Taylor FedunD70112-1----------ALTA: Edmonton29
82Nathan BeaulieuD5918936-19----------ONT: Strathroy24
4Josh GorgesD3402217-4----------BC: Kelowna33
8Casey NelsonD373588-14----------MN: Stillwater25
93Viktor AntipinD470101018-9----------Kazakhstan: Ust-Kamenogorsk24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Think we can all agree it's tough to have a D-Corp that is stable when you have 7 instances(Risto 3 x, McCabe 2x) of guys playing 70+ games in 3 years.

Exactly the reason I want to find a way to ensure bogo isn’t relied on to be in the top 4 again. And fail. Again.
 

Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
6,055
1,007
Dan didn't have Meszaros on his roster anyway. But Buffalo also didn't finish last in any of the seasons Dan

55Rasmus RistolainenD829324133-21----------Finland: Turku20
5Chad RuhwedelD100020----------CA: San Diego25
47Zach BogosianD647172468-11----------NY: Massena25
46Cody FransonD594131726-5----------BC: Sicamous28
4Josh GorgesD772101272-7----------BC: Kelowna31
34Casey NelsonD704481----------MN: Stillwater23
25Carlo ColaiacovoD3614510-11----------ONT: Toronto32
6Mike Weber 2D35145323----------PA: Pittsburgh27
3Mark PysykD551101132-1----------ALTA: Sherwood Park23
29Jake McCabeD7741014516----------WI: Eau Claire21
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

38Taylor FedunD27077163----------ALTA: Edmonton28
41Justin FalkD5208829-3----------MAN: Snowflake27
55Rasmus RistolainenD796394558-9----------Finland: Turku21
47Zach BogosianD56291146-17----------NY: Massena26
45Brendan GuhleD300001----------ALTA: Edmonton19
4Josh GorgesD6615650-3----------BC: Kelowna32
67Brady AustinD500040----------ONT: Bobcaygeon23
6Cody FransonD683161934-5----------BC: Sicamous29
29Jake McCabeD763172026-7----------WI: Eau Claire22
77Dmitri KulikovD4723526-26----------Russia: Lipetsk25
46Erik BurgdoerferD20000-1----------PA: Abington27
34Casey NelsonD110004-3----------MN: Stillwater24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster D with Housley:

45Brendan GuhleD1805510-6----------ALTA: Edmonton20
5Matt TennysonD150008-8----------MN: Minneapolis27
55Rasmus RistolainenD736354148-25----------Finland: Turku22
6Marco ScandellaD825172237-15----------PQ: Montreal27
19Jake McCabeD53391226-11----------WI: Eau Claire23
38Zach RedmondD300021----------MI: Traverse City29
41Justin FalkD4611228-16----------MAN: Snowflake28
47Zach BogosianD1801120-9----------NY: Massena27
27Taylor FedunD70112-1----------ALTA: Edmonton29
82Nathan BeaulieuD5918936-19----------ONT: Strathroy24
4Josh GorgesD3402217-4----------BC: Kelowna33
8Casey NelsonD373588-14----------MN: Stillwater25
93Viktor AntipinD470101018-9----------Kazakhstan: Ust-Kamenogorsk24
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Think we can all agree it's tough to have a D-Corp that is stable when you have 7 instances(Risto 3 x, McCabe 2x) of guys playing 70+ games in 3 years.
Housley only had 2 guys play more than 60 games. Eek.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,252
6,716
For ROR's piss poor off-season and Reinhart self proclaimed overthinking?

And for the rest of the team that played poorly? Or was the difference between Playoff Contendership and non playoffs, the start of soley ROR and Reinhart's starts to their seasons?
 

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,265
4,953
For ROR's piss poor off-season and Reinhart self proclaimed overthinking?
Reinhart stopped playing the coaches game and went back to what worked for him the 2nd half of the season.

I remember in his comments people on this board was accusing him of being the uncoachable one. Well if him doing opposite of what the coach wants and succeeds then the coach needs to go.
 

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,286
1,319
Mighty Taco, NY
Reinhart stopped playing the coaches game and went back to what worked for him the 2nd half of the season.

I remember in his comments people on this board was accusing him of being the uncoachable one. Well if him doing opposite of what the coach wants and succeeds then the coach needs to go.
I don't think he ever specified what exactly he changed.
 

jc17

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
11,031
7,760
Reinhart stopped playing the coaches game and went back to what worked for him the 2nd half of the season.

I remember in his comments people on this board was accusing him of being the uncoachable one. Well if him doing opposite of what the coach wants and succeeds then the coach needs to go.

Can you refresh my memory to what he was doing against the coach's orders? (not sarcasm, I actually don't remember)

And I thought the criticism was him skipping optional practices, or was that 2 years ago?
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,252
6,716
Housley only had 2 guys play more than 60 games. Eek.

Probably could've had two more guys, or at least 1 more guy if he didn't healthy-scratch Antipin the amount of times he did.

Like it not, Housley came in with higher expectations with his history of coaching defenseman. When his defense was as horrible as they were last year, he's going to catch criticism for it. HIS LINEUP decisions, left a lot to be desired.

Overall, I don't think the difference in talent level, is all that big between the two coaches (Bylsma vs Housley). I don't think either guy, whether you switch them up, gets you that much of a difference in numbers. I don't believe either guy is of a quality coach for bring offense from the backend, IMO.
 

CatsforReinhart

Registered User
Jul 27, 2014
7,315
1,623
Frankfurt
Probably could've had two more guys, or at least 1 more guy if he didn't healthy-scratch Antipin the amount of times he did.

Like it not, Housley came in with higher expectations with his history of coaching defenseman. When his defense was as horrible as they were last year, he's going to catch criticism for it. HIS LINEUP decisions, left a lot to be desired.

Overall, I don't think the difference in talent level, is all that big between the two coaches (Bylsma vs Housley). I don't think either guy, whether you switch them up, gets you that much of a difference in numbers. I don't believe either guy is of a quality coach for bring offense from the backend, IMO.
So you feel players like for example Antipin should be gifted games?
 
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Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,265
4,953
Can you refresh my memory to what he was doing against the coach's orders? (not sarcasm, I actually don't remember)

And I thought the criticism was him skipping optional practices, or was that 2 years ago?
He never went into detail, he just said he went back to his game that was working for him. I will try and look for the interview this evening.

The skipping of optional ROR practice was a Hamilton hot take.
 

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,265
4,953
Whose to say that's in spite of Housley?
I find it odd that Reinhart would say he went back to his game after the Winter Classic as if Housley was trying to have him do something else and it just wasn't working.

Who else is coaching?
 

jc17

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
11,031
7,760
Yeah I believe that he said that, but it seems like it would be weird to say that publicly if it was a shot at Housley.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
2,770
Pittsburgh
Which has always been crazy to me. Guys like Karlsson, Doughty, Lidstrom, etc play more than any top forward and can generally have a bigger impact on a game.

I have seen reasonable takes both ways on who is more impactful, a top center/forward or top D.

I think on some level it’s easier to see the tangible results of a forward compared to a dman and the fans pay for flashy goals.
 

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