This franchise is an absolute mess right now

[OkimLom]

He got paid because of McDavid and the hype of being in the same draft, media hyped it up so much at one point some people thought he could go number 1.

Literally the lottery screwed us and then McDavid screwed us by being so good and signing a 12 mil contract.

Crosby doesnt even get paid Eichel numbers. Malkin on his 3rd contract makes 500 mil less.

If that's the thought behind the contract, then we have an Armchair GM actually being our GM...

 

[OkimLom]

Literally could not be in a better place right now. But hey all those ROR fans are going to kill this franchise any chance it can.

The best place we were in recently was on June 22nd.

At that time we had a Franchise D, A francise Center, a good really #2 Center, some really good prospects...Today we don't have a really good #2 center in place...So yes, we CAN be literally in a better place right now...

 

[OkimLom]

Botts wanted to change the culture and hand this team over to his young core. Berglund and sobotka are just fill ins. Botterill is putting a lot of trust into Eichel, Reinhart, risto and Mitts, and tbh I feel way more excited going into the season knowing that(with Dahlin as well of course) then running ROR out there for 22 mins a game and watching the same damn thing as last season.

How many wins did ROR cost us last year because of his attitude?

 

[Jim Bob]

How many wins did ROR cost us last year because of his attitude?

All of them.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Everyone uses the we were in last place with ROR excuse but doesn't realize a season ago we were at 80+ points with ROR, the only real change was Housley.

Then they defend Housley didnt have enough players to work with yet Byslma was working with Mezaros and Franson to name just a few.

It's all leading back to one person but sure let's move ROR because last place was his problem, right? @BananaSquad

 

[Icicle]

Everyone uses the we were in last place with ROR excuse but doesn't realize a season ago we were at 80+ points with ROR, the only real change was Housley.

Then they defend Housley didnt have enough players to work with yet Byslma was working with Mezaros and Franson to name just a few.

It's all leading back to one person but sure let's move ROR because last place was his problem, right? @BananaSquad

Franson is an NHLer. A slow one that takes a lot of penalties, but an NHLer.

Housley had Tennyson. An ECHLer.

 

[Jim Bob]

Franson is an NHLer. A slow one that takes a lot of penalties, but an NHLer.

Housley had Tennyson. An ECHLer.

Who's fault was that?

Franson signed a 1 year $1M deal on October 4, 2017 after signing a PTO with Chicago.

Botterill decided to sign Tennyson to a 2 year deal on July 1, 2017.

I can't wait to hear how that decision was Murray's fault.

 

[Sabre the Win]

If that's the thought behind the contract, then we have an Armchair GM actually being our GM...

It's either that or Pegula is actually running things again and Botterill is the puppet to Eichel and Pegula.

 

[Icicle]

Who's fault was that?

Franson signed a 1 year $1M deal on October 4, 2017 after signing a PTO with Chicago.

Botterill decided to sign Tennyson to a 2 year deal on July 1, 2017.

I can't wait to hear how that decision was Murray's fault.

He signed a 2-way contract and was slated for the minors as a #10 guy. Only after 4-5 injuries did we see him as a top-pairing guy.

If you're going to ignore how decimated our defense actually was last season, then at least be up front about it and your poor comparison.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Franson is an NHLer. A slow one that takes a lot of penalties, but an NHLer.

Housley had Tennyson. An ECHLer.

omg poor Housley.. let's see the players Bylsma had and did more with.

Ennis
Moulson
Franson
Mezaros
Grant
Cal O'Reilly
George's
Legwand
Coliaicovo
Deslauriers
Kulikov

All on the team at one point or another and all on the ice and he still did better than Bylsma but sure let's jump to injuries as an excuse for Housleys short coming this season now.

This circle is getting pathetic.

 

[Jim Bob]

He signed a 2-way contract and was slated for the minors as a #10 guy. Only after 4-5 injuries did we see him as a top-pairing guy.

If you're going to ignore how decimated our defense actually was last season, then at least be up front about it and your poor comparison.

He signed a two year deal with the first year being two ways with a guaranteed salary that was more than his AHL salary and the second year was a one way deal.

If you want to blame injuries, then try and compare the injuries they dealt with last season versus the two seasons prior under Bylsma.

The tough part with that is you have a lot of key guys that played more games last season than the year before.

Bogosian was the guy that had the much worse season health-wise last season. But, two years ago you had Kulikov who only played 47 games and those games were at far less than 100%.

 

[jc17]

omg poor Housley.. let's see the players Bylsma had and did more with.

Ennis
Moulson
Franson
Mezaros
Grant
Cal O'Reilly
George's
Legwand

All on the team at one point or another and all on the ice and he still did better than Bylsma but sure let's jump to injuries as an excuse for Housleys short coming this season now.

This circle is getting pathetic.

Like your post isn't a little biased the other way?

Lets look at the guys you listed and how much they played for us last year at even strength, on the team that was more successful.

Ennis-572
Moulson-761
Franson-1085
Grant-278
Cal O'Reilly-77
George's-1015
Legwand-Didn't play last year. 2015-16 Sabres weren't exactly great either.
Mezaros-Last played for the Sabres in 14-15 one of the worst historical seasons, so I'm not sure "did better with meszaros" is accurate

3/8 guys played significant minutes. 1 played half the season. And 4/8 people didn't play or barely played

Gorges, Franson, and Moulson were drags on that team, but dont tell me Bylsma made the most of COR, Grant, Legwand and Meszaros. And even then, are those guys that much worse than Nolan, Josefsson, Falk, Beaulieu?

If you want to give Bylsma credit for something maybe it should be that he didn't give a ton of ice time to most of the deadweight

 

[Aladyyn]

Tennyson was 100% Housley. He could have not played him. He could have played him way less. He didn't. He played him way more than he should have.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Like your post isn't a little biased the other way?

Lets look at the guys you listed and how much they played for us last year at even strength, on the team that was more successful.

Ennis-572
Moulson-761
Franson-1085
Grant-278
Cal O'Reilly-77
George's-1015
Legwand-Didn't play last year. 2015-16 Sabres weren't exactly great either.
Mezaros-Last played for the Sabres in 14-15 one of the worst historical seasons, so I'm not sure "did better with meszaros" is accurate

Gorges, Franson, and Moulson were drags on that team, but dont tell me Bylsma made the most of COR, Grant, Legwand and Meszaros. And even then, are those guys that much worse than Nolan, Josefsson, Falk, Beaulieu?

If you want to give Bylsma credit for something maybe it should be that he didn't give a ton of ice time to most of the deadweight

You were able to take an entire post and skew some numbers to better your argument and make a couple strawman arguments over who played last season when i clearly said all on the team at some point or the other meaning under Bylsma's watch.

Thanks tho for throwing Botterill under the bus which I love. Management couldnt add better players than the ones I listed and made due with Nolan, Josefsson and Bealieau which isn't moving forward much.

Also Falk played under Bylsma as well.

 

[Icicle]

omg poor Housley.. let's see the players Bylsma had and did more with.

Ennis
Moulson
Franson
Mezaros
Grant
Cal O'Reilly
George's
Legwand
Coliaicovo
Deslauriers
Kulikov

All on the team at one point or another and all on the ice and he still did better than Bylsma but sure let's jump to injuries as an excuse for Housleys short coming this season now.

This circle is getting pathetic.

Grant went on to actually score goals in a better club. Moulson wasn't dead yet. Franson was fine in a bottom-6, just nothing more. Legwand was an improvement over our entire bottom-6 last season. Nolan was worse than Des. Kulikov was injured-- the free pass Murray gets.

The only pathetic part is your half-assed attempt to refute an argument. We were talking about defensive depth and the only two you listed were better than guys who were getting top-pairing minutes due to injuries last season.

 

[valet]

great thread guys

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I can’t belive I have to actually lay out Darcys poor drafting in this decade. 2011 and 2012 were complete misses. From 2005-2012 the only draft pick to really hit from the later rounds was Marcus Foligno. Ullmark still hasn’t shown anything at a NHL level yet... also he had back to back drafts where his number one pick never played a game in the NHL.

Yeah they had high prospect rankings after he had four draft picks in the first two rounds. One of the four hasn’t been a disappointment.

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Chris Butler, Nathan Gerbe, Paul Bryon and McNabb were fine late picks.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Granted, you have people posting in extremes on both sides (overly optimistic and overly pessimistic)... but even leaning mildly optimistic? Thems fightin' words around here.

And IMHO the extreme optimism that's happening is less something happening naturally and that people really believe... and rather in more of a "devils advocate" or a contrarian way to the absolute bombarding of Botts-hate that's been non-stop since Jacks contract (so basically since Botts took the job).

EDIT: Actually, it probably goes back to Carrier being lost in the expansion draft.

The irony being Carrier was dreadful for Vegas this season.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Grant went on to actually score goals in a better club. Moulson wasn't dead yet. Franson was fine in a bottom-6, just nothing more. Legwand was an improvement over our entire bottom-6 last season. Nolan was worse than Des. Kulikov was injured-- the free pass Murray gets.

The only pathetic part is your half-assed attempt to refute an argument. We were talking about defensive depth and the only two you listed were better than guys who were getting top-pairing minutes due to injuries last season.

So you agree Botterill sucks at his job too.. everything you said here makes management look dumb, they took apparently serviceable players according to you and replaced them with Tennysson, Josefsson and Nolan to name a few.

How woe is me for Housley that all the players became decrepit when he took over the team.

Your argument is pathetic. In order for you to defend Housley you have to in directly trash Botterill and to protect Botterill you have to indirectly trash Housley.

So pick which one do you like more and stick with that, ok?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

So you agree Botterill sucks at his job too.. everything you said here makes management look dumb, they took apparently serviceable players according to you and replaced them with Tennysson, Josefsson and

How woe is me for Housley that all the players became decrepit when he took over the team.

Your argument is pathetic. In order for you to defend Housley you have to in directly trash Botterill and to protect Botterill you have to indirectly trash Housley.

So pick which one do you like more and stick with that, ok?

It's not fair to make a list of the worst players over a 3 year span, and compare them to a list of bad players from a single season.

 

[Icicle]

So you agree Botterill sucks at his job too.. everything you said here makes management look dumb, they took apparently serviceable players according to you and replaced them with Tennysson, Josefsson and Nolan to name a few.

How woe is me for Housley that all the players became decrepit when he took over the team.

Your argument is pathetic. In order for you to defend Housley you have to in directly trash Botterill and to protect Botterill you have to indirectly trash Housley.

So pick which one do you like more and stick with that, ok?

God you're bad at this

INJURIES

Murray's teams weren't tasked with playing their 12th defenseman

 

[Jim Bob]

God you're bad at this

INJURIES

Murray's teams weren't tasked with playing their 12th defenseman

2017-18 - The Sabres used 13 D, 22 F, and 4 G.
2016-17 - The Sabres used 12 D, 23 F, and 3 G.
2015-16 - The Sabres used 10 D, 21 F, and 4 G.

 

[Sabre the Win]

God you're bad at this

INJURIES

Murray's teams weren't tasked with playing their 12th defenseman

and you're back to injuries as if Bylsma's serviceable players were all healthy in his time and we apparently had stronger depth under Murray than we do now with Botterill.

Bogosian and Kulikov were both injured one season, two of our top 4 and you go right to "well injuries" for Housleys sake.

 

[Sabre the Win]

It's not fair to make a list of the worst players over a 3 year span, and compare them to a list of bad players from a single season.

Why is it fair for Housley defenders to do the same thing with Nolan, Josefsson and Tennyson?

Am I missing something here?

 

[Icicle]

Redmond, a mid-season acquisition, I had the pleasure of watching in-person. Murray never dealt with that.