Therrien is bringing the worst out of his players this year?

[Adriatic]

I'm definitely not a Therrien fan and I was pissed off when the hired him. But there's no way I'm going to blame him for any kind of problems the team is having until he gets some regular size players on his top 2 lines. No coach in the NHL has to deal with having that amount of bantam size players in their lineups. Bergevin needs to address that and give him better tools to work with. If they are still bad after that then by all means get rid of him.

 

[Kimota]

We win, though. If keep going on a winning tear for the remaining of the season and our players have next to no points individualy but are putting up points collectively, who cares.

 

[Habnot]

Are the Habs in such a bad position in terms of young talent that giving their youth (ie. Galchenyuk, Subban, Eller, Gallagher, Bournival, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc) an increased PP time/more leash/bigger role as opposed/etc to giving the veterans no accountability will not only result in the sacrifice of a playoff spot, but their confidence shattered?

Personally, I don't think giving Galchenyuk 15-18 minutes a game with 1st PP unit time will hurt the team. I don't think he's that much inferior to guys like Ryan Johansen and Scheifele who were given time to work through issues until it finally clicked. He started season similar role to them but that got diminished while they were played consistently. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Galchenyuk has the ability to be as good right now had they played him consistently in that role similar to those teams.

Aside from Subban regressing to the point he looks more confused than he was in his rookie year, I don't think we've seen a young player like Eller go from looking like a long term important core piece to a barely NHL player over a calender year. Perhaps this 'shattered confidence' thing happened here? Surely it's not from being given too big of a role.

When you think about it, the people that bash MT who tend to be labelled pessimists are the optimists since they believe the Habs future can be better with the current youth being developed better. Hopefully you're wrong about the "there's not a coach in the league not trying to win games..." line for Sylvain Lefebvre's sake. The only thing he has going for him is the Dogs are having the worst 2 season stretch in their franchise history because he's trying to develop players.

You have a valid point, but unfortunately there is not precise template on how to win games while developing young players. For every Pittsburgh or Chicago there is also an Edmonton.

The NHL is such a competitive league, every game has playoff implication. MT's role is not to develop players, it's to find ways to win games.

MB's role is to build a team for now and for the future. If he doesn't like the way MT uses his players, he has the option to fire him. That being said, I don't think MB is unhappy.

Once you toss aside veterans and put young players in their place, you basically have no options left if things start to go bad.

After Martin/Cunneyworth season of finishing last, we know things would take some time to turn this around, especially since we still had some big contracts on the books. Given the lockout last year, the team has only played 109 games and have a 62-35-12 record - thats pretty darn good. They have also integrated Galcheyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Tinordi/Beaulieu.

These are facts - but some have no patience and won't give credit where credit is due.

People point to the early exit in the PO's last year, or Price this year, or individual player performance - these are all excuses. If you would of told me this is what we would have accomplished after the year we finished dead last - I would have been giddy.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

MT has a short shelf life, he'll lose the room and be gone soon.

I'm quite sure he's lost the room already. Remember the reports (rumor) of a player revolt. Not sure if it's true or not but I hope they do one day. Come playoff time when the play is much different from the regular season. This team show will show its weaknesses (which were never addressed) like it did last playoffs against the Sens and gets drop kicked out of the first or second round I hope that it's an eye opener to MB and he gives this idiot the boot. Frankly though I think Bergevin is just as dumb for hiring him in the first place.

 

[Monctonscout]

When 3-4 players are under-performing, you can put it on them. This is a lot more than 3 or 4. So it can't be just an individual player issue.

The players underperforming are Eller and Bourque mostly up front with Emelin on defense, mostly because of the ACL surgery, and late start. Prust has played hurt on and off. Eller is the only glaring one.

Subban and Markov's numbers are down primarily because the PP is not clicking, but they are both playing good overall. Markov is better than last year despite worse stats, his defensive game is much better.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

You have a valid point, but unfortunately there is not precise template on how to win games while developing young players. For every Pittsburgh or Chicago there is also an Edmonton.

The NHL is such a competitive league, every game has playoff implication. MT's role is not to develop players, it's to find ways to win games.

MB's role is to build a team for now and for the future. If he doesn't like the way MT uses his players, he has the option to fire him. That being said, I don't think MB is unhappy.

Once you toss aside veterans and put young players in their place, you basically have no options left if things start to go bad.

After Martin/Cunneyworth season of finishing last, we know things would take some time to turn this around, especially since we still had some big contracts on the books. Given the lockout last year, the team has played 109 games and have a 62-35-12 record. They have also integrated Galcheyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Tinordi/Beaulieu.

These are facts - but some have no patience and won't give credit where credit is due.

People point to the early exit in the PO's last year, or Price this year, or individual player performance - these are all excuses. If you would of told me this is what we would have accomplished after the year we finished dead last - I would have been giddy.

You make great points but I disagree with that one statement. There are some coaches who are great at developing players and if that's not the coaches job than who's job is it to develop these guys at the NHL level? By not playing Chucky now, letting him make mistakes and develop into the first line center this team drafted him to be Therrien will be squandering his talent.

 

[Monctonscout]

You have a valid point, but unfortunately there is not precise template on how to win games while developing young players. For every Pittsburgh or Chicago there is also an Edmonton.

The NHL is such a competitive league, every game has playoff implication. MT's role is not to develop players, it's to find ways to win games.

MB's role is to build a team for now and for the future. If he doesn't like the way MT uses his players, he has the option to fire him. That being said, I don't think MB is unhappy.

Once you toss aside veterans and put young players in their place, you basically have no options left if things start to go bad.

After Martin/Cunneyworth season of finishing last, we know things would take some time to turn this around, especially since we still had some big contracts on the books. Given the lockout last year, the team has only played 109 games and have a 62-35-12 record - thats pretty darn good. They have also integrated Galcheyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Tinordi/Beaulieu.

These are facts - but some have no patience and won't give credit where credit is due.

People point to the early exit in the PO's last year, or Price this year, or individual player performance - these are all excuses. If you would of told me this is what we would have accomplished after the year we finished dead last - I would have been giddy.

His job is to do both...win games and develop players. There is a time for both.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

While I'm no fan of MT I'm beginning to wonder at what point do we blame the players?

 

[ChuckysHands]

Therrien's usage of players is awful. how Galchenyuk hasn't seen the ice during the last 2 OTs is beyond me. His continuing use of Douglas Murray is embarrassing. He's managed to completely neutralize PK Subban. Unfortunately, changes are unlikely when you're sitting 2nd in the Atlantic a few games behind Boston.

 

[Habnot]

You make great points but I disagree with that one statement. There are some coaches who are great at developing players and if that's not the coaches job than who's job is it to develop these guys at the NHL level? By not playing Chucky now, letting him make mistakes and develop into the first line center this team drafted him to be Therrien will be squandering his talent.

I don't disagree and I too would prefer a coach that would show a better balance - who wouldn't.

I just disagree with those who would prefer losing by removing key veterans or by giving more responsibilities to the young players. There are no guarantees that putting young players in important roles before they are ready leads to a faster progression.

My point is that the NHL is not a development league - if you have a spot or a role on an NHL team - you need to earn it and take someone else's spot. Without being repetitive, take Detroit as a model. Players that can contribute are still forced to play 3-4 years in the AHL. When they come up, they are not developing, they have earned their spots are contributing at their assigned role.

Gallagher has taken a spot on the top 6 because he proves night in night out that he earned that spot. Galchenyuk, as good as hes been, has not developed the level of consistency in his game allows the Habs to use him as a top line center that he will eventually become.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

We win, though. If keep going on a winning tear for the remaining of the season and our players have next to no points individualy but are putting up points collectively, who cares.

But there is no progress. If they get owned in the playoffs, what do you build off of? You can't have this kind of approach when you're not a good team.

 

[gillyguzzler]

If someone asked me where I thought the team would be in the standings, 61 games into the season, if the following would occur :

DD with a stretch of one point in 20 games
Eller with a stretch of 4 points in 30 some games and on pace for 28 points
Galchenyk with a broken wrist and regressing
MaxPac missing 10 games because of injury
Norris PK playing so badly that speedsters Murray and Tinordi playing in OT as he sits
Briere being in the coach's doghouse and on the 4th line
Bourque with the same amount of points as Gorges
Plekanek on pace for 45 points
Gionta on pace for 41 points
Prust struggling with injuries all year
Emelin struggling after coming back from a major injury
Markov having to play 25+ minutes most nights
Bergevin not making any moves to improve the team

For sure, I would have thought the Habs out of a playoff spot - certainly not 2nd in their division. Almost everything has been a deception except for Carey Price yet they are still in a playoff spot. I don't think MT is a good coach, especially not a good communicator, but they can't fire him considering all this.

 

[19VJ17]

Holy cow man, some people sure love to nitpick....your family and friends must find it hard to please you.
People are looking at the tree and don't even see the forest....talking about minutes and who plays with who but forgetting the whole team wins and loses together along with the coaches.
I know of no coach who coaches to loses games. I think MT experience helps us more than hurts us....plus gives him thick skin for all the so called expert fans who love to nitpick

 

[Sorinth]

I'm definitely not a Therrien fan and I was pissed off when the hired him. But there's no way I'm going to blame him for any kind of problems the team is having until he gets some regular size players on his top 2 lines. No coach in the NHL has to deal with having that amount of bantam size players in their lineups. Bergevin needs to address that and give him better tools to work with. If they are still bad after that then by all means get rid of him.

Well Therrien is the one who decided he'd rather have a 5'7 center in the top-6 over the 6'2 one. Galchenyuk also belongs in the top-6 so with Pacioretty that's 3 players with size in the top-6 which isn't so bad.

Also Therrien got more out of the same team last season and the size in the top-6 hasn't really changed much. Therrien is a problem, just because he isn't the only problem doesn't mean we shouldn't fix the coaching first. Especially if he's hurting the development of players, which I believe he is.

 

[bsl]

Louis Leblanc hasnt played much yet...
Therrien is obviously scared of bringing out Alexandra Wozniacki

Ha Ha. Great post. That was so hilarious.

 

[Monctonscout]

I don't disagree and I too would prefer a coach that would show a better balance - who wouldn't.

I just disagree with those who would prefer losing by removing key veterans or by giving more responsibilities to the young players. There are no guarantees that putting young players in important roles before they are ready leads to a faster progression.

My point is that the NHL is not a development league - if you have a spot or a role on an NHL team - you need to earn it and take someone else's spot. Without being repetitive, take Detroit as a model. Players that can contribute are still forced to play 3-4 years in the AHL. When they come up, they are not developing, they have earned their spots are contributing at their assigned role.

Gallagher has taken a spot on the top 6 because he proves night in night out that he earned that spot. Galchenyuk, as good as hes been, has not developed the level of consistency in his game allows the Habs to use him as a top line center that he will eventually become.

Agreed, Galchenyuk shows flashes but he is still a kid developing. I'd like to see him a bit more on the PP, but at 14:40 he's not exactly getting Scott or Parros minutes. Most 18-20 year olds get insulated minutes as a #4-5 d-man or 3rd liner.

 

[Sorinth]

If someone asked me where I thought the team would be in the standings, 61 games into the season, if the following would occur :

DD with a stretch of one point in 20 games
Eller with a stretch of 4 points in 30 some games and on pace for 28 points
Galchenyk with a broken wrist and regressing
MaxPac missing 10 games because of injury
Norris PK playing so badly that speedsters Murray and Tinordi playing in OT as he sits
Briere being in the coach's doghouse and on the 4th line
Bourque with the same amount of points as Gorges
Plekanek on pace for 45 points
Gionta on pace for 41 points
Prust struggling with injuries all year
Emelin struggling after coming back from a major injury
Markov having to play 25+ minutes most nights
Bergevin not making any moves to improve the team

For sure, I would have thought the Habs out of a playoff spot - certainly not 2nd in their division. Almost everything has been a deception except for Carey Price yet they are still in a playoff spot. I don't think MT is a good coach, especially not a good communicator, but they can't fire him considering all this.

Except a lot of those issues in your list are a result of Therrien's coaching. Deciding a coach should stay or go based on how the goalie is playing seems dumb. Why not fix problems before they send the team into the basement. Get a coach that can get Plekanec, Gionta, Eller, Subban, Markov, etc... playing to their normal levels and with Price playing the way he is we are probably battling for the top spot instead of a wild card spot.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Except a lot of those issues in your list are a result of Therrien's coaching. Deciding a coach should stay or go based on how the goalie is playing seems dumb. Why not fix problems before they send the team into the basement. Get a coach that can get Plekanec, Gionta, Eller, Subban, Markov, etc... playing to their normal levels and with Price playing the way he is we are probably battling for the top spot instead of a wild card spot.

I don't disagree that someone like Dan Bylsma would get more out of these players but the team record is very good considering how badly too many players have struggled and that's why MT will keep his job.

 

[bsl]

I agree Galchenyuk should play more, especially on the PP...but 3 on 3 in OT...not really the time to play your 19 year old.

Why? In road game too, where you already stole a point?

I completely disagree with you. Young legs are fantastic 3 on 3. In my opinion that is the perfect time to play Galchenyuk.

Please give your reason for not playing Galchenyuk in that situation, relating to hockey, as it is played in the NHL today. I would like to hear it.

Let's hear it.

 

[Mrb1p]

We win, though. If keep going on a winning tear for the remaining of the season and our players have next to no points individualy but are putting up points collectively, who cares.

I care, because I've seen that happen for more than 20 years now.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Well, consistently shuffling lines is absolutely retarted and I was right. You can ruin player's seasons by putting him on different lines all the time.

Now that we sticked with DD and Max Pac, are we getting the results, yes.

I don't blame AK46 for sucking when he was giving only 1 season with proper ice time ( the season he blew out). Production comes with chemistry unless you are a one man team like Kovalchuk, Crosby or Ovechkin. Players that get 80+ points a year in this league gets the most of their points on PP and with proper chemistry with their linemates. Thats the reality.

 

[waffledave]

If I hear how the team is 3rd in the conference again I'm going to lose it.

Are you sure you guys are watching the same games I am? The Habs are the team in red, or white and red on the road. Big C on the front. Hard to miss.

I sincerely don't understand how you could possibly think this team will fare well in the playoffs. They look terrible whether they win or lose. Last night if Fleury wasn't horrible we lose that game 5-1.

 

[gillyguzzler]

If I hear how the team is 3rd in the conference again I'm going to lose it.

Are you sure you guys are watching the same games I am? The Habs are the team in red, or white and red on the road. Big C on the front. Hard to miss.

I sincerely don't understand how you could possibly think this team will fare well in the playoffs. They look terrible whether they win or lose. Last night if Fleury wasn't horrible we lose that game 5-1.

The team is 3rd in the conference.

 

[waffledave]

The team is 3rd in the conference.

 

[Habnot]

Why? In road game too, where you already stole a point?

I completely disagree with you. Young legs are fantastic 3 on 3. In my opinion that is the perfect time to play Galchenyuk.

Please give your reason for not playing Galchenyuk in that situation, relating to hockey, as it is played in the NHL today. I would like to hear it.

Let's hear it.

Easy - percentages, more apt to make a mistake that might cause a goal. Do you not think MT was playing for the shootout? Do you not think they know that going for the win in OT, opening it up or playing young players, percentage wise will most probably lose them a point?

Every point counts in this league - why do you think MT and the coaching staff were celebrating after the shootout?

MT was totally protecting the tie on OT, he gambled and won. But he put the odds on his side.

No one, from coaches to management, give a **** what fanboys think. Playoffs is the objective every year, that's the reality of the new NHL. It is so hard to make them, and harder to repeat except for a handful of teams. Next step is to be one of those teams, but that will take some time.