Rumor: There have been rumors/ proposai of an exchange between the Nashville Predators and the Montreal Canadiens just before the draft..

[DAChampion]

A confounder here is that the Habs have benefited from strong goaltending for like 35 years. From Patrick Roy to Andy Moog to Jeff Hacket to Theodore to Huet to Halak to Price, this team has had consistently strong goaltending, probably the best in the NHL going back to 1990. That is anomalous and need not be the case forever, but it probably gives Habs fans an illusion that great goaltending is easy to come by.

 

[Pat Riot]

A confounder here is that the Habs have benefited from strong goaltending for like 35 years. From Patrick Roy to Andy Moog to Jeff Hacket to Theodore to Huet to Halak to Price, this team has had consistently strong goaltending, probably the best in the NHL going back to 1990. That is anomalous and need not be the case forever, but it probably gives Habs fans an illusion that great goaltending is easy to come by.

The way you explained it , it does seem easier to find a good goalie than finding a number one center or a top defenseman.

 

[DAChampion]

The way you explained it , it does seem easier to find a good goalie than finding a number one center or a top defenseman.

For the Habs, maybe, but they're anomalous NHL wide.

Also, the team has had great defensemen in that period.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah I believe Price would have post similar stats to Montembeault last season. Like I said the difference in goalie in todays NHL is very slim

The difference between Price and Montembeault is massive.

The difference between a top end goalie and the average goalie is massive.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

A confounder here is that the Habs have benefited from strong goaltending for like 35 years. From Patrick Roy to Andy Moog to Jeff Hacket to Theodore to Huet to Halak to Price, this team has had consistently strong goaltending, probably the best in the NHL going back to 1990. That is anomalous and need not be the case forever, but it probably gives Habs fans an illusion that great goaltending is easy to come by.

we've also had extremely poor results during this same timeframe (ok starting '94 onwards).

what does this say about how championship teams are built nowadays? let's move on from the goalie worship mindset, it's just not the way to go.

The difference between Price and Montembeault is massive.

The difference between a top end goalie and the average goalie is massive.

what? can't do an analysis today but if anything, the gap between the league's best goalies and the league average has been reduced a ton.

hence why so many 'average' goalies lead their team to cups nowadays.

 

[Pat Riot]

For the Habs, maybe, but they're anomalous NHL wide.

Also, the team has had great defensemen in that period.

We did have good defensemen in that period. If I remember correctly at one point Price was playing behind the most expensive defense in the whole league. Hence why I dont buy the argument that Price always had mediocre team in front of him. Some posters keep saying that but its just not true. His overall career was good-average in my book. Two incredible seasons but the rest was pretty average stats amongst nhl goalies

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well not admitting Dipietro was pretty average despite his draft ranking makes you being in the wrong. And the funny think , you are schooling the other poster when you are the one not admitting being wrong. Its like you are talking to yourself.

At no point did I ever say he was a HOFer held back by injury. I said he was a solid goalie whose career was ruined by injury.

We don’t know what his career would have been. Nobody can know this. The other non HOFer selected was Lehtonen. He wound up on an expansion team and had a pretty good career.

Four goalies who are/will be HOFers. One who had a good career. One whose career was ruined by injury. You don’t think this is accurate?

 

[WeThreeKings]

we've also had extremely poor results during this same timeframe (ok starting '94 onwards).

what does this say about how championship teams are built nowadays? let's move on from the goalie worship mindset, it's just not the way to go.


what? can't do an analysis today but if anything, the gap between the league's best goalies and the league average has been reduced a ton.

hence why so many 'average' goalies lead their team to cups nowadays.

The overall disparity has changed, the difference between Brodeur and the worst goalie in the league isn't as big as it once was.

But if you don't think there isn't a massive difference between Vasilevskiy and Adin Hill, come on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well not admitting Dipietro was pretty average despite his draft ranking makes you being in the wrong. And the funny think , you are schooling the other poster when you are the one not admitting being wrong. It’s like you are talking to yourself.

???

At no point did I say the DiPietro was on pace for a HOF career. I said he was a solid netminder with great puckhandling skills whos career was ruined by injury.

I summarized the six as follows: Four are/will be HOFers. One had a solid career. One had his career ruined by injury. How is this not accurate?

The fact of the matter is that goalies drafted top five have alomost always yielded great success for the clubs who’ve taken them. Moreover the draft that behindthetimes decided to use as his example undermines his argument even further because there are at least three goalies in that draft who were wiorthy of a top five pick.

Would you rather Turks Rask or Gilbert Brule? Come on man…

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The overall disparity has changed, the difference between Brodeur and the worst goalie in the league isn't as big as it once was.

But if you don't think there isn't a massive difference between Vasilevskiy and Adin Hill, come on.

Exactly. There’s a lot of parity in netminders right now. But that’s all the MORE reason to draft one higher if you find a guy who’s head and shoulders better.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

The overall disparity has changed, the difference between Brodeur and the worst goalie in the league isn't as big as it once was.

But if you don't think there isn't a massive difference between Vasilevskiy and Adin Hill, come on.

honestly i would go with Adin Hill and a Vasilevsky-level center, given the choice.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

honestly i would go with Adin Hill and a Vasilevsky-level center, given the choice.

Okay.

But if Vasilevski was available and you had the fifth pick overall would you refuse to draft him solely on the basis of him being a goalie?

It’s fine to value centers over goalies. But that’s a far cry from saying no goalie should ever be drafted top five.

In the 05 draft three of the top five players taken are goalies. Would you rather Paul Stastney than Jonathan Quick? Hell no.

 

[pepperMonkey]

If I remember correctly at one point Price was playing behind the most expensive defense in the whole league. Hence why I dont buy the argument that Price always had mediocre team in front of him.

Sorry, having the most expensive defense != the best defense. Doesn't even mean a good defense. And yes, Price has had a mediocre team in front of him. Our defense couldn't score (at least no where close to what the 'best' could) and neither could our offense. Does that sound like a great team?

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Okay.

But if Vasilevski was available and you had the fifth pick overall would you refuse to draft him solely on the basis of him being a goalie?

yes actually. i would actively avoid drafting a goalie and draft the BPA skater.

sounds dramatic but i just think that's the right move nowadays.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

yes actually. i would actively avoid drafting a goalie and draft the BPA skater.

sounds dramatic but i just think that's the right move nowadays.

So you’d take Paul Sastney over Quick, Price and Rask?

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

So you’d take Paul Sastney over Quick, Price and Rask?

you could have used Kopitar as an example just as easily

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sorry, having the most expensive defense != the best defense. Doesn't even mean a good defense. And yes, Price has had a mediocre team in front of him. Our defense couldn't score (at least no where close to what the 'best' could) and neither could our offense. Does that sound like a great team?

We have the benefit of seeing the team with/without Price. 2015 we’re a first place club. Then 2015-16 starts and we are the best team in the NHL. Our numbers were great top to bottom. Then Price gets hurt. We fall to dead last everywhere. The whole team collapsed.

There aren’t many examples of players with this kind of impact on their club. The idea that he was coasting along on a strong club is laughable.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

you could have used Kopitar as an example just as easily

I am including him.
Crosby
Kopitar

The next best skater in that draft is probably Stastny. Then there are three great goalies.

Are you telling me you take Stastny over any of them?

Feel free to find three other skaters before the goalies.

Edit: Letang would the best. Followed by Stastney. And then… I don’t know. Oshie? Yandle? What’s your top five from that draft?

Vasi is easily the best player in the 2012 draft. He’s not worthy of a top five?

 

[Pat Riot]

Sorry, having the most expensive defense != the best defense. Doesn't even mean a good defense. And yes, Price has had a mediocre team in front of him. Our defense couldn't score (at least no where close to what the 'best' could) and neither could our offense. Does that sound like a great team?

I never said it was the best defense in the league but it was far from being the worst one. And because the habs have not rely on a good offensive player in so long. Their style of plays was heavily focused on defensive mind strategy making it easier for our goaltenders

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I never said it was the best defense in the league but it was far from being the worst one. And because the habs have not rely on a good offensive player in so long. Their style of plays was heavily focused on defensive mind strategy making it easier for our goaltenders

The moment Price got hurt in 2015-16 our numbers went from best to worst…

Explain this.

 

[Pat Riot]

The moment Price got hurt in 2015-16 our members went from best to worst…

Explain this.

Price played what 10 games that season? We just had a bad roster. It was a habs thing to start the season strong but when others team start playing we see the team collapse. And we saw the samething happens with Price in the net. Therrien was a bad coach with old school mentality but I have to admit he had is team prepared to start the season very well but it would never last a full season

You have to acknowledge thats true. Habs start the season on fire and drop down the rankings during the season faster than a rock down the bottom of the ocean. It happens more than once with or without Price in the net

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price played what 10 games that season? We just had a bad roster. It was a habs thing to start the season strong but when others team start playing we see the team collapse. And we saw the samething happens with Price in the net.

You are incorrect.

In 2015 Price won every award under the sun. We were a first place team. This wasn’t a hot streak or a fast start. The following year was pretty much the same club.

Therrien was a bad coach with old school mentality but I have to admit he had is team prepared to start the season very well but it would never last a full season

You have to acknowledge thats true. Habs start the season on fire and drop down the rankings during the season faster than a rock down the bottom of the ocean. It happens more than once with or without Price in the net

The following year was a continuation of the previous one only we were even better. Our record was 10-2 or something like that and Price’s numbers were right in line with the previous season.

Then he gets hurt and the club collapsed.

Explain this.

 

[Pat Riot]

You are incorrect.

In 2015 Price won every award under the sun. We were a first place team. This wasn’t a hot streak or a fast start. The following year was pretty much the same club.

The following year was a continuation of the previous one only we were even better. Our record was 10-2 or something like that and Price’s numbers were right in line with the previous season.

Then he gets hurt and the club collapsed.

Explain this.

Like explaining Cheechoo 56 goals season. Like I said Price was on fire for 2 seasons. 2 seasons doesnt make a career does it?

How do you explain Price showing very average stats for the most part of his career? One season being extremely good is more an outlier compare to the rest of his career

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Like explaining Cheechoo 56 goals season. Like I said Price was on fire for 2 seasons. 2 seasons doesnt make a career does it?

We’re not talking about Cheechoo.

We’re talking about the team you said had the most expensive D in the league. We’re talking about the club you were saying was better than it was given credit for.

Okay… explain this then. Why did this great club collapse when Price went down? Aren’t all goalies the same?

By the way, the 2016 roster was actually better than the previous year because we now had Petry.

 

[Pat Riot]

We’re not talking about Cheechoo.

We’re talking about the team you said had the most expensive D in the league. We’re talking about the club you were saying was better than it was given credit for.

Okay… explain this then.

By the way, the 2016 roster was actually better than the previous year because we now had Petry.

I did say they had one of the most expensive defense in the league. That is not an opinion , its a fact