The Vision of Kyle Dubas

[Suntouchable13]

How so?

Because we've been pathetic for 50 years. A team like TB will laugh at our "franchise point record"

 

[dubplatepressure]

Because we've been pathetic for 50 years. A team like TB will laugh at our "franchise point record"

...ok? teams that break franchise records for point totals are usually heading in the right direction. You know - on their way to not being pathetic, as you might say.

I don't give two shits about what Tampa Bay, perhaps the best overall team assembled in the last 50 years, has to say about it in your imaginary conversation. They are an outlier.

 

[yubbers]

does Josh Leivo play defense or defensively or backup goaltender?
No?
then no.

No. But he's a leader and plays a tough game with emotion. You guys continue to say players like that don't matter, yet we have the same conversation every year about how we're not built for the playoffs. What's the definition of insanity again?

 

[rumman]

Pretty much Mess. Muskoka 5 2.0

this could very well turn out to become true.

 

[Suntouchable13]

...ok? teams that break franchise records for point totals are usually heading in the right direction. You know - on their way to not being pathetic, as you might say.

I don't give two ****s about what Tampa Bay, perhaps the best overall team assembled in the last 50 years, has to say about it in your imaginary conversation. They are an outlier.

I don't see the right direction you're speaking of. Our defensive play is a mess. We haven't gotten better at that since Babcock got here.

 

[Mess]

My only gripe with Dubas so far is his faith in Sparks. Keeping Sparks over Mcelhinney was a massive blunder and more than a few of us knew it at the time.

That move single-handedly by itself likely cost Leafs home ice in the 1st round of the playoffs alone, and put the Leafs in a hole. If Boston wins game #7 at home AGAIN, and sends the Leafs fishing then Dubas decision making in net, can be pointed to as a reason the season ended early.

His contracts to JT + WN + AM and soon MM might soon put the Leafs in an even deeper hole they might not be able to climb out of. They will soon likely have 3 of the top 12 highest paid AAV forwards on their roster beginning next year, including 2 in the top 3. Leafs are heading for Cap Hell, much like the Titanic did to that iceberg.

This strategy requires A+ level scouting and drafting/developing to build a team around them for cap reasons. That task is made even tougher if you're giving away 1st round picks and your top prospects (you took with 2nd round/high picks) in trade. What's left mid-late round draft picks, or dumpster diving signing "free wallets" of previously undrafted/unsigned UFA players (Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman, Holl etc filling out the roster) or signing vets on bargain basement contracts?

 

[rumman]

My only gripe with Dubas so far is his faith in Sparks. Keeping Sparks over Mcelhinney was a massive blunder and more than a few of us knew it at the time.

I understand why he kept Sparks, but that's no excuse for not waiving one of Holl or Marincin and keeping McBackup. Carrying 3 goalies isn't ideal, but having a couple of D men pretty much sitting the entire season isn't a genius move either.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I don't see the right direction you're speaking of. Our defensive play is a mess. We haven't gotten better at that since Babcock got here.

It's not possible to both win more games and do it while getting worse. Not unless somehow bad play becomes correlated with winning.

The team is far from perfect and you've called out exactly what's wrong with it. But progress is still progress. Last year we would have had no chance against Philly in that 7-6 game after going down 3, nor would we have had any chance of making it close against Chicago.

 

[Bomber0104]

That move single-handedly by itself likely cost Leafs home ice in the 1st round of the playoffs alone, and put the Leafs in a hole. If Boston wins game #7 at home AGAIN, and sends the Leafs fishing then Dubas decision making in net, can be pointed to as a reason the season ended early.

His contracts to JT + WN + AM and soon MM might soon put the Leafs in an even deeper hole they might not be able to climb out of. They will soon likely have 3 of the top 12 highest paid AAV forwards on their roster beginning next year, including 2 in the top 3.

This strategy requires A+ level scouting and drafting/developing to build a team around them for cap reasons. That task is made even tougher if you're giving away 1st round picks and your top prospects (you took with 2nd round/high picks). What's left mid-late round draft picks, or dumpster diving signing "free wallets" of previously undrafted/unsigned UFA players (Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman, Holl etc filling out the roster) or signing vets on bargain basement contracts?

Bang on post, particularly the bolded part.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

There is no place for aggressive players in the top 9. We need skill. Scoring chances die on the stick of aggressive players and are an anchor on skilled players. This is the new NHL. No need for those guys. Just look at where we are in the standings.



Did I have you going at all?

Yes, yes you did! I thought you got abducted by the Stepford Fans.

 

[rumman]

what? You can call Leivo many things but not fritty isn't one of them. He was teh Captain of the wolves and isn't afraid to bang down low. And how is the guy we traded him for being a difference maker exactly? He isn't and never will because he's not an nhler. Once again Dubas gives away assets for players that aren't NHLers.

I'm happy for Leivo, but thinking he couldn't help this team is just wrong.

 

[Daisy Jane]

No. But he's a leader and plays a tough game with emotion. You guys continue to say players like that don't matter, yet we have the same conversation every year about how we're not built for the playoffs. What's the definition of insanity again?

a leader of what? like. seriously?

the issue with this team right now is the following.

1: they are lazy and cherry picking.
i don't get how you're #1 in the league in the offensive zone but bottom 5 in the defense zone. like literally what is different here?

2: they don't commit defensively. at all.
not as a two man unit, and not as a team.

3: we don't have a backup capable of eating games for the starter
thus - having our starter be rundown. again.

You can add "tough emotional game play." I've never said that we don't need it. but saying a "Leivo would have made things better" when it doesn't address the fact that the team can't win faceoffs in the defensive zone which literally directly leads to goals, this team doesn't commit to a defensive game, or can lock it down, that we have a crappy crappy crappy backup after literally giving away a not crappy one, and our goaltender once again has run into the ground - is like saying. imma need a whole new outfit, and saying "taaadaa! here are some shoelaces to get you started." if Leivo were here, issues 1 through 3 that are the main issues would still be issues.

not to mention the big ole #4
Mike Babcock is floundering big time. unlike most people here though, i'm not putting it all on him, I'll put a good chunk of it on Dubas and on the players.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Breaking record points for this franchise is a low bar.

How so?

The 105 points last season was the 140th best all time team points season. Whoopee!

 

[TheShape]

I understand why he kept Sparks, but that's no excuse for not waiving one of Holl or Marincin and keeping McBackup. Carrying 3 goalies isn't ideal, but having a couple of D men pretty much sitting the entire season isn't a genius move either.

D men sitting isn’t on Dubas. Babcock does this crap every year. Corrado two years ago, Leivo last year, Holl this year. He’ll always have someone he needs to make an example out of.

Carrying 3 goalies is a distraction in itself, especially in this market. Anyway forget about McBackup, we have a capable backup in Hutchinson. Dubas needs to cut ties with Sparks already, he isn’t an NHLer.

 

[yubbers]

I agree with all your points. I'm not saying Josh is the difference of a cup or not but he was the Captain of the wolves and was one of the leaders for the Marlies. He was always a performer in the playoffs for them. He has one of what....the 4 fights we have this year?

Leivo would not let anyone hack at our goalie like Tcachuk did last night and stay on his feet. He's the type of guy that can help give you momentum swings. And we all know momentum is a big part of the game.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The 105 points last season was the 140th best all time team points season. Whoopee!

If you only want to acknowledge the negative aspects of this team and not also acknowledge the positives, then who am I to stop you?

 

[TheShape]

That move single-handedly by itself likely cost Leafs home ice in the 1st round of the playoffs alone, and put the Leafs in a hole. If Boston wins game #7 at home AGAIN, and sends the Leafs fishing then Dubas decision making in net, can be pointed to as a reason the season ended early.

His contracts to JT + WN + AM and soon MM might soon put the Leafs in an even deeper hole they might not be able to climb out of. They will soon likely have 3 of the top 12 highest paid AAV forwards on their roster beginning next year, including 2 in the top 3. Leafs are heading for Cap Hell, much like the Titanic did to that iceberg.

This strategy requires A+ level scouting and drafting/developing to build a team around them for cap reasons. That task is made even tougher if you're giving away 1st round picks and your top prospects (you took with 2nd round/high picks) in trade. What's left mid-late round draft picks, or dumpster diving signing "free wallets" of previously undrafted/unsigned UFA players (Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman, Holl etc filling out the roster) or signing vets on bargain basement contracts?

You pay your stars. Those contracts are not the problem. Dubas inherited dead cap space in Marleau, Zaitsev is about 2 1/2 million dollars overpaid and Kadri isn’t living up to his contract which used to be a bargain. Brown at 2.1 million on the fourth line etc. this is what kills teams and puts you in cap hell. All of which Dubas inherited.

Next year is a cap crunch, after that we are in the clear. Anyway there are deeper issues on this team than a few overpaid players

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If you only want to acknowledge the negative aspects of this team and not also acknowledge the positives, then who am I to stop you?

The Op stated that the Leafs "franchise record" is not a high bar. You asked "how so". I gave you the facts. That fact is neither negative or positive. It is just a fact.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That move single-handedly by itself likely cost Leafs home ice in the 1st round of the playoffs alone, and put the Leafs in a hole. If Boston wins game #7 at home AGAIN, and sends the Leafs fishing then Dubas decision making in net, can be pointed to as a reason the season ended early.

His contracts to JT + WN + AM and soon MM might soon put the Leafs in an even deeper hole they might not be able to climb out of. They will soon likely have 3 of the top 12 highest paid AAV forwards on their roster beginning next year, including 2 in the top 3. Leafs are heading for Cap Hell, much like the Titanic did to that iceberg.

This strategy requires A+ level scouting and drafting/developing to build a team around them for cap reasons. That task is made even tougher if you're giving away 1st round picks and your top prospects (you took with 2nd round/high picks) in trade. What's left mid-late round draft picks, or dumpster diving signing "free wallets" of previously undrafted/unsigned UFA players (Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman, Holl etc filling out the roster) or signing vets on bargain basement contracts?

Other than Matthews, Tavares, and McDavid... who are the other 9 players you think will make more than Marner?
My faith in Dubas' negotiating is so dramatically low that I 100% believe that Marner will have the 4th highest aav in the nhl starting next season. That will be 3 of the top 4 highest paid players (not even saying forwards) are on the Maple Leafs.

 

[theTTC]

... Leivo wasn't that much of a difference maker, nor is he a particularly high energy-gritty player.

Leivo is a puck-winning boards beast, will fist fight not back away when confronted, is a keep-my-mouth-shut-and-take-one-for-the-team guy, knew Babcock's system, and will always earn less than $1M per year.

Sounds just like what we need.

Vancouver fans are at least as critical and impatient as Leaf fans, and even they have only good things to say.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You pay your stars. Those contracts are not the problem. Dubas inherited dead cap space in Marleau, Zaitsev is about 2 1/2 million dollars overpaid and Kadri isn’t living up to his contract which used to be a bargain. Brown at 2.1 million on the fourth line etc. this is what kills teams and puts you in cap hell. All of which Dubas inherited.

Next year is a cap crunch, after that we are in the clear. Anyway there are deeper issues on this team than a few overpaid players

Yes, you "pay your stars". But you don't pay them higher than league-wide comparables. When term, number of ufa years taken up, etc, are all taken into consideration, our star players are heavily overpaid. (Other than Tavares, who is fair market value for a ufa of his stature.)
These overpayments (because Marner will be overpaid as well) will have eaten up somewhere around 5 million in cap space, which would be excessively important in adding to the depth we desperately need.

And you're right... there are other problems on the team other than our overpaid players. But, unfortunately, due to the overpayments, we don't have the cap space to address these problems.

 

[socko]

The 105 points last season was the 140th best all time team points season. Whoopee!

The loser point has inflated point totals across the league to where historical reference is meaningless.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The loser point has inflated point totals across the league to where historical reference is meaningless.

Yes it has. To the point that if last season were compared to seasons without the loser point it would be even further down the list.

 

[Menzinger]

The 105 points last season was the 140th best all time team points season. Whoopee!

This season the team is winning most of its games without the shootout needed though - a big difference from last season

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes it has. To the point that if last season were compared to seasons without the loser point it would be even further down the list.

I find it silly when people claim a team is playing at ".500" once they subtract out the ot/so losses. You get that? Overtime wins count as wins, but overtime losses don't count as anything at all. It's bullshit.
Like, when it was pointed the leafs are barely a .500 team since January 1st (17 wins, 16 losses), people countered by saying the ot losses don't count as losses, so the leafs are above .500
It's nonsense.