OT: The Thread About Nothing CCXI: The Thread About Everything Besides Hockey and COVID-19

[Billdo]

It should also be said that while I think blaming the media is too easy a copout in a lot of cases, this is one case where the media amplifying the minority of incidents where violence occured without highlighting the fact that the majority of protests HAVE been peaceful and orderly hurts the cause and society on the whole. Never mind the fact there's been almost as much violence from the police/government overreacting as there has been from rioters.

And most of the people who are rioting and looting don't care about what the actual protesters and demonstrators are doing or stand for. Some are just troublemakers and criminals. Others want an actual race war.

I also reject the notion peaceful protests don't help, there've been a lot of peaceful protests for LGBT rights which have gradually expanded, Vietnam protests changed the national mindset of the war, the '60's race protests clearly didn't solve everything but they helped get the ball rolling in the right direction at least with desegregating schools, buses, etc.

The looters are absolutely selfish and not doing anything to spread awareness and promote change. They're selfishly doing it for their own benefit, that's for sure.

 

[The 29th Pick]

The looters are absolutely selfish and not doing anything to spread awareness and promote change. They're selfishly doing it for their own benefit, that's for sure.

and they should be arrested and punished accordingly, most of this stuff is on video

 

[R8Devs]

Yeah alright, f*** it then. Let's trash everything. Loot all of the stores, burn all of the buildings down

Fast forward a few weeks. Now everyone is starving to death because there is nowhere to get food, crime is rampant, and people are fending for themselves and killing each other on the streets.

none of these protests have had action that can really lay a foundation for the hyperbole you wrote out. majority of the protestors are not participating in looting and it's kinda sad to see that being the forefront of many people's responses instead of the reason why these protests are being held in the first place.

I think Toews said it pretty well:

 

[The 29th Pick]

 

[Davegarri]

none of these protests have had action that can really lay a foundation for the hyperbole you wrote out. majority of the protestors are not participating in looting and it's kinda sad to see that being the forefront of many people's responses instead of the reason why these protests are being held in the first place.

I think Toews said it pretty well:

I guess you didn't watch the same stuff I watched in West Philly on Sunday and all through NYC last night where they just ransacked every business they passed and destroyed it. The protests have been fine and I salute everyone protesting; however, the rioting is complete garbage.

But I 100% agree on the bolded. The rioters, looters, anarchists, and straight up criminals are taking away the real reason for the protest and it isn't getting the real attention it deserves. What broke my heart yesterday was this elderly woman in Minnesota crying her eyes out in an interview because all of the stores she could walk to were destroyed in the riots. She didn't have a car, there is no public transportation available, and can't get anywhere. Hopefully she has family that can take care of her, but it's those people I worry about in the aftermath of all of this. Not to mention Covid will probably explode again, which will be fun.

 

[JimEIV]

Growing up in Paterson and having sat in the back of a police car on a few occasions I seem to have a much different perspective on all of this...I understand that one anecdotal instance doesn't mean much but I can only draw my opinions based on my experiences.

I still have scars on my face from being hit with a Mag Lite flash light from an officer when I was 15, I have been punched by officers two other times, once in the face that split my lip open, again still have the scars. I have been stopped just walking in my neighborhood too many times count...A white boy with long hair walking around River Street gets stopped for drugs a lot, eventually you find a cop with a short fuse. I don't how how many times I have had an officer say to me "What are you doing here"...and I never understood why they outwardly displayed agitation by me saying "I live here". We knew every cop...we knew the ones who were likely to harass you and the ones who were likely hit you...We knew the telephone number to Internal Affairs. But truth be told I don't think I ever got anything I didn't deserve...The other truth is little of it has to do with race...class perhaps, culture most definitely. It was and still is a violent place, you're not going to get Andy of Mayberry policing in that environment...When I hear the calls for change, I know first hand that change can only happen by reforming those violent places...Another truth is nobody cares about those places unless the violence spills out of their perfectly confined boundaries...So time will pass, the outrage will fade, the drug dealers will be on the same corner, the dropout rate will remain the same, the lack of hope and opportunity still the glaring issue...But the suburbanite children will feel damn good when they go back to college in September for blacking out their Instagram account.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I'll admit that I have no sympathy for the NYPD. Living in NYC, you see every day they way they behave and it's not remotely positive. I'm not even talking about violence or arrests, just the constant little things - turning on their lights just to run a red light, parking in bike lanes and on sidewalks. They're also comically inept at actually being crime stoppers. In 2019, no NYPD officers were killed by criminals. Multiple were killed by friendly fire. There's still a bullet hole in the front door of my apartment building from years ago, before I moved in, when the cops fired 12 shots at a guy running and didn't hit him once. The laundromat next door still has holes in it too, and the owner still jokes about that. And our stupid idiot mayor has gone above and beyond to try not to blame them for anything, and they still whine and whine and incessantly whine that they don't have the support of the mayor. They're the biggest babies in the world, but that's to be expected. Cops are fake tough guys. They sign up for a potentially dangerous job and they just bawl their eyes out when it gets even potentially dangerous. You're getting paid far more than any other public servant, and incredible benefits to boot, sorry that you have to do the job you explicitly signed up for.

I grew up in Brick, NJ, which for a while was "the safest city in America". Just cops all over the place, harassing you for the most minor of stuff. I still have the ticket for doing 38 in a 35mph zone. That sort of petty. I was sitting on the curb outside of my house at 8:30pm on a summer evening smoking a cigarette once and a cop pulled up on me with flashers on, demanded to see my license (Which showed that it was my address), and then ordered me to go inside, for no reason. My underage little brother got caught selling weed to his buddies, and they got a warrant to come into our house and they just tore the whole place apart. I come home and my bedroom looks like a tornado hit - bed upside down, clothes strewn about outside of drawers and my closet... and those morons completely missed the two fake IDs I had openly laying on my bedside dresser (I was 19, and home for the summer from college).

Too many high school C-/D+ bullies become cops, and if you watch the videos coming out of these protests, it shows.

When I hear the calls for change, I know first hand that change can only happen by reforming those violent places...

Nothing's going to change as long as police departments are getting 5 times the funding that education and social services in those areas are getting.

 

[Patrik26]

I mean look, I understand the severity of the situation for those impacted by the looters and those damaging their property. I also said there's a fine line between a non-peaceful protest and those that are simply being opportunistic and not actually standing with those protesting.

But at a certain point the ends justifies the means. If this inevitably can put an end, or at least makes SIGNIFICANT steps towards, the oppression and racism that black Americans face - especially from cops - then that's what matters.

So am I saying I'm okay with it? Not entirely. I'm not. But I'm much less okay with the racism, oppression, violence, and senseless deaths that black Americans have been facing for countless years.

There are 330 million people in this country. The horses are out of the barn - actually they have been for close to 250 years. Good luck getting them all back.

 

[R8Devs]

I guess you didn't watch the same stuff I watched in West Philly on Sunday and all through NYC last night where they just ransacked every business they passed and destroyed it. The protests have been fine and I salute everyone protesting; however, the rioting is complete garbage.

But I 100% agree on the bolded. The rioters, looters, anarchists, and straight up criminals are taking away the real reason for the protest and it isn't getting the real attention it deserves. What broke my heart yesterday was this elderly woman in Minnesota crying her eyes out in an interview because all of the stores she could walk to were destroyed in the riots. She didn't have a car, there is no public transportation available, and can't get anywhere. Hopefully she has family that can take care of her, but it's those people I worry about in the aftermath of all of this. Not to mention Covid will probably explode again, which will be fun.

NYC and Philly will be fine, both places have gone through much worse and are still here. That's what I was talking about when saying the protests of the past week don't lay a foundation for what you wrote out.

I wasn't just talking about the looters taking away from the message but also people focusing on that as the main part of the discussion even though they know the majority of the protestors aren't participating in that kind of stuff. It's a thing to be disappointed about and outraged at (opportunistic looting) but the main outrage should be focused on why these protests had to happen in the first place.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

 

[Patrik26]

Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

Body cams on the police should be MANDATORY. NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

When I hear the calls for change, I know first hand that change can only happen by reforming those violent places...Another truth is nobody cares about those places unless the violence spills out of their perfectly confined boundaries...So time will pass, the outrage will fade, the drug dealers will be on the same corner, the dropout rate will remain the same, the lack of hope and opportunity still the glaring issue...But the suburbanite children will feel damn good when they go back to college in September for blacking out their Instagram account.

Excellent post. Above all, these communities are victims of systemic indifference that is deeply rooted in political expedience. Decades of broken promises and misappropriated funds, sucking the life out these neighborhoods and taking with it any shred of hope or opportunity.

After years of cuffing and jailing people for anything, radical DA's and prosecutors have now adopted the opposite extreme of letting even violent criminals remain on the streets, where they further terrorize their already-broken communities. They target and recruit the youth, who are vulnerable not only due to age, but also due to the city's inability (at this point, it's unwillingness) to cultivate an environment in which these young people can exert their youthful energy in healthy ways. If you're a cop conducting a stop in these areas, you have no idea if you're stopping a young man on his way to his friend's house, or a notorious armed robber who was let off because ~compassion~ ... I understand the dangerous situation that these city cops are forced into, and it's all a result of institutional incompetence.

Of course, there was nothing dangerous about George Floyd, and there was no reason for that POS to murder him the way he did. But, still, you see smatterings of institutional incompetence that paved the way for this tragedy to happen - the POS kneeler was the subject of several excessive-force lawsuits dating back to 2006, 10 separate conduct complaints, as well as multiple internal complaints, but was never disciplined, let alone fired. (Bizarrely, the County Prosecutor who repeatedly chose against disciplinary action ran for President this year.) 2 of the 3 asshats who stood by have had excessive-force and misconduct complaints of their own, which similarly went undisciplined. These people all crossed the line numerous times, but where is the accountability? Is there even a line? (I'm sure the Minneapolis police union has done its best to push that line as far back as possible...)

It's just one massive, government-created mess. And I think you're spot-on with your quip about social media. Hollow compassion is not only unproductive, it's actually quite patronizing.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Too many high school C-/D+ bullies become cops, and if you watch the videos coming out of these protests, it shows.

I think you're on to something here. I wouldn't apply the blanket "high school reject" label, but if you're getting at the idea that some LEOs get off to exercising/abusing authority, I agree.

And I certainly agree that Mr. Floyd's killer was enjoying one hell of a power trip kneeling with the cameras on him. His repulsive smirk said it all.

Nothing's going to change as long as police departments are getting 5 times the funding that education and social services in those areas are getting.

And if you look closely, the city government officials pulling those purse strings are the same people claiming to be champions of the downtrodden.

 

[Darkauron]

The bigger problem i feel for police is that they have barely any over sight. And body cams and more will go a long way. Assault someone, kill someone? Ehh depends on who it is and if you are going to get desk duty for a while, a slap on a wrist, charges brought against you, or nothing. All depends on where you are in the country and who is in charge.

It shouldnt matter if you are a cop in a small town or big city, you should be held accountable for your actions, but they are not.

 

[Cheddabombs]

There are 330 million people in this country. The horses are out of the barn - actually they have been for close to 250 years. Good luck getting them all back.

Yeah, racism isn't going to end after this. And there are still going to be racist cops. It's the repercussions that they face for their gross, racist actions that can change. Apparently the officer that killed George Floyd has had his charges change to 2nd degree murder instead and the other three officers involved are now facing charges. That's some progress in itself and I'd say without these protests that would have never happened. It's a good step. There needs to be much more done still.

 

[None Shall Pass]

The bigger problem i feel for police is that they have barely any over sight. And body cams and more will go a long way. Assault someone, kill someone? Ehh depends on who it is and if you are going to get desk duty for a while, a slap on a wrist, charges brought against you, or nothing. All depends on where you are in the country and who is in charge.

It shouldnt matter if you are a cop in a small town or big city, you should be held accountable for your actions, but they are not.

And heaven forbid you try to introduce any oversight! Then they cry even louder.

We keep hearing how it's only some cops, but the "good cops" aren't arresting or speaking out when they see stuff. The whole culture is rotten.

 

[Patrik26]

And heaven forbid you try to introduce any oversight! Then they cry even louder.

We keep hearing how it's only some cops, but the "good cops" aren't arresting or speaking out when they see stuff. The whole culture is rotten.

The 2nd Amendment is the only thing keeping law enforcement (and elected officials for that matter) somewhat in line. Take it away and watch out - we ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[njdevils1982]

Yeah, racism isn't going to end after this. And there are still going to be racist cops. It's the repercussions that they face for their gross, racist actions that can change. Apparently the officer that killed George Floyd has had his charges change to 2nd degree murder instead and the other three officers involved are now facing charges. That's some progress in itself and I'd say without these protests that would have never happened. It's a good step. There needs to be much more done still.

i agree, the 3 others need to be held accountable…and hard……they should be ashamed of themselves for their inactions while holding a place of authority…..police should never live above the law

 

[njdevils1982]

View attachment 348722

Body cams on the police should be MANDATORY. NO EXCEPTIONS.

…and citizens have their own right to their own camera as well

 

[Oneiro]

Kudos to you guys for talking about this like normal people. Hard to find respectful discussions or non-echo chambers anywhere else. Despite these poor seasons, I'm still proud to be a Devils fan and you guys are a part of that.

Protecting other people is an honor and it's a mostly thankless one. I'm not a parent but I do know that those moments when a kid is crying, shouting, spitting, saying they hate you - those are the moments where how a parent behaves is how much they'll be trusted going forward. All real authority is derived from trust and when that trust breaks down, the people in power have to understand that they are the ones who set the tone. Restraint, taking the high road, it's a part of the job. If you can't see the person underneath the chaos, you can't do the job.

We are reaching a boiling point on a lot of fronts, clearly. I do think the stage is set for a lot of violence and upheaval. Should we get past it, I really think this country is on the verge of becoming a truly incredible place to live. There's so much exciting stuff happening in science, medicine, finance, creativity, etc. And many of these things are not going to be very expensive but they could be life-changing.

 

[The 29th Pick]

The 2nd Amendment is the only thing keeping law enforcement (and elected officials for that matter) somewhat in line. Take it away and watch out - we ain't seen nothing yet.

what do you mean by that?

 

[Billdo]

View attachment 348722

Body cams on the police should be MANDATORY. NO EXCEPTIONS.

I'm kinda surprised they're not mandatory at this point. It's safer for the cop and the people they're interacting with. I'd love to know that someone couldn't just make up some bullshit story if I'm the cop and I'd love to know that a cops misconduct would be recorded if I'm the citizen.

 

[None Shall Pass]

NYPD are terrorizing the city.

 

[Patrik26]

I'm kinda surprised they're not mandatory at this point. It's safer for the cop and the people they're interacting with. I'd love to know that someone couldn't just make up some bullshit story if I'm the cop and I'd love to know that a cops misconduct would be recorded if I'm the citizen.

You can thank the police unions.

police union body cameras - Google Search

 

[Darkauron]

NYPD are terrorizing the city.

This country is a disgusting joke. f***ing hell.