The "Tanking" And/Or Other Roster Moves Discussion Thread

Cowumbus

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Assuming your rather broad definition of "franchise player", sure. If guys like Landeskog and Drouin and Duchene can be included among the ranks of "franchise players", you know who else qualifies? Guys like Atkinson. And Werenski.


There's talented guys all over the draft. If you're going to pull that sort of thing, you should be looking more broadly. Good research isn't looking for what confirms your hypothesis; good research is looking for what could potentially disprove your hypothesis.
Werenski is close to being a franchise player. Only thing stopping him is effort, and better defense.

Atkinson is not. Drouin has 2 (almost 3) seasons of 50+ points before the age of 24, and on pace for another this year. Duchene is .75PPG and Landy .71. Atkinson .63, close but not there.. and getting worse.

Also when franchise guys are in the 4 and 5 spot consistently it’s probably a sign that top 5 picks are a good thing. So even if you don’t win the lottery, you might be in a good spot if you’re low enough.
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
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Also when franchise guys are in the 4 and 5 spot consistently it’s probably a sign that top 5 picks are a good thing. So even if you don’t win the lottery, you might be in a good spot if you’re low enough.
I don't think anyone disputes that having such a pick is good. It's what one has to does to make sure one gets there that makes it not worth it.
 
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EspenK

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I don't think anyone disputes that having such a pick is good. It's what one has to does to make sure one gets there that makes it not worth it.

Looks like the Jackets are taking the non-tanking route to having a good chance at a top 5 pick. :sarcasm:
 
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pled

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if you guys refuse to tank what would you be willing to give to participate in the hall auction ?
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
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if you guys refuse to tank what would you be willing to give to participate in the hall auction ?
Any number of things, dependent on any number of other things.

Trades are dependent on what the other team needs. NJ fans have mentioned a need for a good defensive LD, but they kind of flinched when I suggested Murray straight up to them. There might be a base there depending on what else is involved, but I'm not certain.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Looks like the Jackets are taking the non-tanking route to having a good chance at a top 5 pick. :sarcasm:

This I find painful but much preferable to actually tanking. I find it better to emulate teams that are coming off big drop off seasons (Winnipeg 2016, Dallas, Colorado, and Philly in 2017, Carolina and Montreal in 2018) than to follow the path of teams that blow it up (Edmonton and Buffalo?).
 
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EDM

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Mar 8, 2008
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For Hall? Murray, Wennberg & Harrington. Plus a 3rd round pick.
 

Cowumbus

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I don't think anyone disputes that having such a pick is good. It's what one has to does to make sure one gets there that makes it not worth it.
And you keep insinuating tanking. That’s not what I want. I want solid asset management and selling older players while their value is still high. It COULD help our draft chances, but it could help a younger player break out as well.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
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And you keep insinuating tanking. That’s not what I want.
It is, however, what you originally said (see post #1 of this thread, which did not originally have a question mark in it), so you'll have to forgive me if I occasionally forget that you've subsequently claimed otherwise.
 

Cowumbus

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It is, however, what you originally said (see post #1 of this thread, which did not originally have a question mark in it), so you'll have to forgive me if I occasionally forget that you've subsequently claimed otherwise.
I have to add it after because people like you cannot understand a bit of sarcasm/hyperbole on the internet. Was not meant to be literal.

The post was in a GDT, YOU MOVED IT AND STARTED the TANKING THREAD.
 
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Jovavic

Gaslight Object Project
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Hall has a pretty good record of being on a team that wins the lottery, so there's that.

LA is done with Kovalchuk for whatever reason, offer up Dubinsky, Jarmo.
 

Cowumbus

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OK. You're not the only one who's suggested it at this point, though.
And that is not my fault. And I did not suggest it. Again all I want is smart asset management in a year where we are not going to be competitive.

you get so upset with one word and continue to focus on that rather than everything else I said. Idk why you get so mad about it

it’s not a dichotomy
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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It is, however, what you originally said (see post #1 of this thread, which did not originally have a question mark in it), so you'll have to forgive me if I occasionally forget that you've subsequently claimed otherwise.

Getting someone to change their prior belief, whether they'll admit it or not? Take a victory lap, Viqsi.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
42,363
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Almost 20 games into the season, here is my personal outlook on the roster at hand and how they're performing.

F
Anderson: Pretty disappointed in Andy so far this year. I think he's still playing hurt, because the aggressive powerforward of last year doesn't look like the same guy I see this year. His lack of offensive production isn't due to lack of effort, the guy is shooting from everywhere, but I'm not sure if his offensive numbers the past few years were boosted by the team around him. He might be on a Boone Jenner path of excellent 3rd liner with some offensive punch. Which isn't a bad thing. I do think he is playing injured though.

Atkinson: Probably the biggest disappointment on the team. It isn't just due to the lack of production, but the pesty Cam Atkinson of 3 years ago seems to be a distant memory. He isn't as involved defensively, and appears to be cheating offensively. Our PP struggles hit him hard because he's our best scorer, yet only has two PPG. He is in a big time funk, not only on the scoresheet, but in general with his play. Although I will say he has begun to look better in recent games, but his luck still hasn't. We all know Cam though, he'll get one goal and he'll get hot again. Very streaky player. I'm not worried about him, but he is frustrating to watch sometimes.

Bemstrom: Completely overwhelmed to start the season, benched in games where he was a non factor, but there has been a spark into his game recently after he scored his first career goal. Riding a 3 game point streak, Bemstrom might finally be settling in to a full time NHL role. And boy, do they need it. However, the coach still doesn't trust him, and the failures of the PP (a huge reason he made the team out of camp) lies a bit on his shoulders. Still, there's certainly time for him to turn the season around, but he's got to earn the trust from the coach, even if it is in limited minutes.

Bjorkstrand: He's a hard one to pin down. He shoots a lot, and seems to get chances, but there is a huge majority of time where he just fades and is just there. I like him a lot, and I want him to reach his potential, but I think the lack of creativity as a whole on the team holds him back, and despite having one of the best shots on the team, he doesn't get deployed in a very good spot to use it very often. Especially on the PP, where he lines up on the right point rather than closer to the net. I would say he's been disappointing too, given how much they were/are expecting out of him. I thought this would be the year he topped 30 goals. Maybe he's just not that kind of player.

Dubois:
I think he's growing into a man child. Very rarely this season has he not had an impact in some way on the ice. He's hit a bit of a cold spell offensively in recent games (1 point in the last 5 games) but he's still had opportunities and is driving the net very well. He is one of the few people I have been consistently impressed with, and appears well on the path to become the #1 C he was drafted to be.

Jenner: Boone is the type of player you rarely get frustrated at. You see him out there and he's the same guy every game. Solid player, and important role player. Limited offensively, but we knew that. I have had no issues with his play for his given role.

Foligno: I think he's been fine. He's playing way above in the lineup where he should be (at this point of his career, he should be in the bottom 6, not getting PP time, but some PK work) but that's not his fault. Unfortunately with his ice time he should be producing more, but he's just not that type of player. Given his ice time he's been disappointing, but by and large I have had no issue with his play, more I have an issue with his ice time.

Milano: Other than Dubois, and Bemstrom's recent rise, Sonny has probably been the biggest bright spot among forwards. He's the most creative offensive player we have, and he's the most dangerous player with the puck we have (both positively and negatively). He should play higher in the lineup, and take our lumps with his deficiencies because he brings an element to our game that we need. He's been pretty silent recently, though.

Nash: Had a good start to the season, and has since gone back to being the Riley Nash of last year. Nothing special. Makes too much for his role, but that's not his fault either. On a path to become the most meh CBJ "big" offseason signing since Sammy Pahlsson.

Nyquist: He's not sexy, he doesn't flash on the screen like a Dubois or Milano, but he's good. I think he's been what we expected from him.

Texier: He's there. He looked overwhelmed to start the season, but has settled in. Too much was expected of him from the team and fans (me included) because of his end of the season last year, but he's an important player going forward for us and should continue to get fed minutes to get better. His injury didn't help things either.

Wennberg: Again we meet frustration. Much like Bjorkstrand, he had a good start to the season, and has since faded back into being the Wennberg of two years ago. I don't think he's been as bad as he was last year, but he's certainly not been as good as he was three years ago. He's an NHL player, but he's way more ideally a 3rd line center rather than relying upon him to be our 2nd line center. I'm glad he's made progress, but he's making too much money to keep waiting on.

D

Gavrikov: I think he's been very steady. Nothing sexy, and you don't really notice him ever, but that's his game. He's a solid player and someone we should have around for a long time.

Harrington: He's been fine. You notice him for the wrong reasons sometimes, but he's a serviceable 3rd pairing defenseman who can kill penalties. We're fortunate enough to have better options.

Jones: Probably the biggest disappointment this season for me personally. He's been fine. He's certainly a star type talent and you can see it whenever he plays a game. However, he's taken major steps back this season offensively and defensively than what we've seen the last two seasons. At the end of the day though, even when he's not playing his best, he's by and large our best defenseman. I don't know whats happened, whether he is/was hurt, read too much about his Norris season, or whatever, but we need him to get back to being Seth Jones. Not sure if playing with Werenski is dragging him down, but something is up.

Kukan: He's fine. He's better than Harrington, and as of this season better than Nutivaara. I think he's been a fine 3rd pairing defenseman.

Murray: He's good when he plays, but the dude is just injury prone. He is what he is, a solid top 4 defenseman capable of playing all roles, and that's been no different this year. Probably best playing with Jones, but can't hold up to the rigors of playing that many minutes. Disappointing, but not unexpected.

Nutivaara: Hard to call a 7th round pick and everyday NHLer disappointing, but given how much praise the team gave him in years past, I think the word disappointing fits. He's a good puck mover, and is capable defensively, but he apparently has been outplayed by all of Harrington, Kukan, and Gavrikov according to the coaching staff. Which is something I didn't expect coming into the year. He has potential to be more, to be better than he is, but he's not gotten any better. The concussion from last years playoffs on top of this recent injury haven't helped.

Savard: Steady again. Probably our best defenseman this season as far as consistency. He isn't a glamorous player but he gets the job done. Fine for his role.

Werenski: Still lost at times defensively, but his offensive game makes up for it. I'm not sure if playing with Jones is the right thing for either of them, although they have chemistry together. His offensive game is good, and his production is pretty good, but that's never really been the worry with him. He has his up and down moments but I think he's been OK.

G

Korpisalo:
Up and down like a toilet seat. He has some good games, and some bad games, but one thing that has stayed consistent is his ability to give up soft goals. His Korpisofty nickname is well earned. However, when he is playing well you can see him being a good starting goalie. His on ice meltdowns need to be reigned in. I think the team has failed him a bit as well with their defensive breakdowns (so many odd man rushes and breakaways).

Merzlikins: More down than up, but he's starting to show why he was so highly thought of. More of an incomplete grade than Korpi's, but we'll see where his recent run of decent play takes him.

In general, the team has fallen flat on its face and has proven the doubters right. I thought the team would get around 88 points, and I'm nearly certain they're going to fall short of that. Not considerably short, mind you, but short. The offensive shortcomings on the team were expected (maybe not this drastic) but the defensive shortcomings are extremely disappointing due to the coaching staff preaching a more patient and stingy defensive strategy. I don't think our defenseman are capable of doing that. The guys we were counting on making huge strides aren't doing so, and the rookies we were told were ready weren't. Hopefully over the next 20 games this turns around, but given the absolute lack of anything resembling decent special teams, I don't see our offensive numbers changing drastically.

I like Torts, and I think the calls that this whole struggle on offense is his fault is pretty laughable, but I don't think this team is good enough to play the type of game he wants to play. I think he's a good motivator, and a great teacher for our young guys and I am glad he got to coach them. The way he's handled being the coach here has been nothing but spectacular, especially during last years roller coaster ride. I think he deserves the chance to right the ship, but I don't anticipate that happening. If the season continues down the path it appears to be, Torts should be fired at the end of the year in favor of a more modern coach.

TL;DR version: I think this team doesn't need a tank thread. They may have it handled without doing it on purpose.
 

Cyclones Rock

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Jun 12, 2008
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22% of the CBJ games are in the books. Tanking is coming natural to this team. No extra efforts (or lack of efforts) required.

Average goals per game 2.33. Only Detroit is lower at 2.3. Both of these teams are scoring almost one goal per game shy of the average NHL team.

Tracking for 73 points.

Last in Regulation Wins with 3 in 18 games. Tracking for 14. In 82 games. Oh my!

Tied for 2nd worst (with many teams) with 6 ROW.

Biggest margin of victory in a game: 1 goal.

Tied for third worst goals differential: -19. Tracking for -87.

Already down to a 25% chance of making the playoffs according to MoneyPuck (which might be a garbage site but might not as I'm not familiar with it).

NHL Playoff Odds -MoneyPuck 2020 Playoff & Cup Odds

Hockeyreference.com has the CBJ playoff chances at a meager 12% already. Ouch.

Playoff Probabilities Report | Hockey-Reference.com
 
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Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
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Last night MTL broadcaster said we have had 11 games (12 now) determined by one goal. Taking into account cap space, and the core already in place; I don't believe tanking or rebuilding or retooling is a good idea. IMO adding 2c or getting more out of the underperforming players (Cam, Anderson) we already have; would turn a lot of those 1 goal games into wins.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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if you guys refuse to tank what would you be willing to give to participate in the hall auction ?


I think this team needs at least one really good play maker and a 2nd solid play maker. The Jackets have no one that I would consider a play maker. This I believe is where Panarin's absence is being felt the most. I haven't watch Taylor Hall a whole lot but his career stats breakdown about 40-60 in favor of assists. I don't want to trade for him unless he is signed and I worry a bit about giving him an 8 year deal for mega bucks. Love to have him just don't think the price will be worth it plus I'm guessing he wants to go to a more likely SC contender.
 
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