The Seabrook Conundrum...

[Pez68]

yup that point happened two seasons ago.

Greed makes people do all sorts of things

This is on the Blackhawks for being soft. He needs to be scratched. Hockey players have a hard time knowing when they should hang them up. The Hawks have given him no indication that they feel he should hang them up anytime soon... You start scratching him and playing him 10 minutes a night, and maybe he gets the picture. If I'm still playing every game, and playing decent minutes, and have $20M left to collect, you bet your ASS I'm going to continue to play. The teams needs to take off the kid gloves, regardless of how important he was to this team in the past.

His career can’t be tainted. Fifteen years from now nobody will care that he was a broken shell of a player at the end of the line.

They will remember the three Stanley Cups and the three gold medals he won for Canada though.

The Stanley Cups will be remembered. Most people, outside of Blackhawks' fans, wont' remember him being the 7th defenseman for Canada in 2010. Nor will they remember his other gold medals, which were in 2005 and 2003, and in juniors(wow was that forward lineup STACKED in 2005).

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

This is on the Blackhawks for being soft. He needs to be scratched. Hockey players have a hard time knowing when they should hang them up. The Hawks have given him no indication that they feel he should hang them up anytime soon... You start scratching him and playing him 10 minutes a night, and maybe he gets the picture. If I'm still playing every game, and playing decent minutes, and have $20M left to collect, you bet your ASS I'm going to continue to play. The teams needs to take off the kid gloves, regardless of how important he was to this team in the past.



The Stanley Cups will be remembered. Most people, outside of Blackhawks' fans, wont' remember him being the 7th defenseman for Canada in 2010. Nor will they remember his other gold medals, which were in 2005 and 2003, and in juniors(wow was that forward lineup STACKED in 2005).

You’re selling his three gold medals a bit short, but I feel like you’re not considering the human element of of flogging Seabrook so publically. If they were bottoming out and going full rebuild, absolutely. But I can’t see Keith/Kane/Toews and to a lesser extent Shaw being happy with sending an old war horse to the glue factory. Again, zero insight to them as people. I just think it’s not as black and white as you paint it.

 

[Bubba88]

he Needs to sit more, but not getting his A taken away.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

he Needs to sit more, but not getting his A taken away.

You can’t have a part time alternate.

 

[Fire Stan Bowman]

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

watching seabrook on the ice is disgusting

 

[Bubba88]

You can’t have a part time alternate.

You can. Easily.

Other teams named 4 alternates. No reason we can't have a 3rd with Seabs keeping it.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Here's the problem as I see it. Seabrook is a "leader" on this team. This is always the argument people bring up when scratching him is discussed. He wears a letter. He is supposed to be an example for the young guys. One time in the playoffs he said something to Toews when he was losing his cool. He also scored some big goals many years ago. So, sure, he WAS one of this team's leaders.

But, every player, at some point in their career, reaches a point where they can no longer effectively "lead", because of their on-ice performance. How can he be vocal and hold the younger players accountable when he is one of the absolute worst players on the team? It would be one thing if he appeared to be going 110%, selling out to block shots, standing up for teammates, etc. But most of the time, he's not even moving his feet out there. If he's talking, he's likely being tuned out by most of the guys at this point.

I think if JC really wants to take control of this team, and instill accountability and work ethic into the room, he absolutely has to sit Seabrook. How can a guy be a leader on a team when his best, 100% effort(if it even is), is what most guys are doing when half-assing it? What motivation do the young players have to play harder, when they see him out there stinking up the place every night, and continuing to be thrown out on the PP and PK? How can you hold the young guys accountable and change their approach to the game if you aren't holding everyone accountable?

Joe Thornton is a hall of famer, and even he had his C stripped away for a better option. At some point, it needs to happen. I would sit Seabs, and the next game, his A would be on Shaw's jersey. Yeah, yeah, Kane. Maybe Kane is an option if it sparks him and he starts playing some semblance of a 200 foot game, but I don't think that's going to happen. You sit him for 4-5 games in a row, and when he comes back you just keep the A on Shaw's jersey. Shaw is a heart and soul guy, is a two-time cup winner, is 28, stands up for his teammates, and I guarantee nobody is questioning his work ethic or his desire to win if he steps up and talks.

If Seabrook doesn't start seeing regular press box duty this season, I'm on the fire everyone train. He's a detriment to the team, and at some point, guys will start resenting him because of his play, and it will end up fracturing the locker room. You need to start handing the reigns over to the younger guys at some point in the retool/rebuild, so it can be THEIR team. I would start that process with moving an A off of a guy that should be in the press box 75% of the season.

Didn’t I bring up stripping Seabrook of the A this offseason and get f***ing roasted by a lot of you here? (Not necessarily you, Pez, I don’t remember exactly which posters)

 

[hawksrule]

but you know what else is true, $80 million is sufficient, making an ass out of yourself for the last 6 or so years to finish a contract and tainting what would have been a great career is not really worth the difference between $80 million which he has earned already to the $97 million that he would get for his career if he finishes it, if he does in fact have the physical ability to finish it which I highly doubt he does

The sixty million is cut in half for taxes, and another big chunk goes to his agent. He’s a very wealthy man, but you’re overstating it. And even if you weren’t, it would be irresponsible to himself and his family to leave that cash on the table. No one on this forum would.

 

[Hawkaholic]

As much as people don't like him, at least Q had the balls to sit Seabrook or limit his ice time. I want to see that out of JC too, has it happened once since he's been here?

 

[HjamSandwich]

He should lose the A and be a full time scratch. We basically need to make it clear to him that the only way he plays hockey is if the no-movement clause is waived.

 

[AmericanDream]

take him off the pk and watch the heat on him drop 50% instantly...

 

[BK]

As much as people don't like him, at least Q had the balls to sit Seabrook or limit his ice time. I want to see that out of JC too, has it happened once since he's been here?

Q sat him once to be fair.

 

[AmericanDream]

Q sat him once to be fair.

for me, it isn't even about sitting him right now, it is the common f***ing sense stuff we ALL are seeing...

Seabs needs to be removed from the pk, but because he flops around and blocks shots he has this narrative that he can pk well..I get it, he is a bigger body that should make it harder for players to crash the net and park there..but Seabs 8 out of 10 times puts himself out of position/into bad positions by sprawling on the ice trying to block shots. I applaud the man for taking those welts, I really do, but if you can't get up quick enough or are able to block a shot without sliding your way out of position, you have to stop it/minimize it.

Hammer blocked a shit load of shots for us, how many times did you see him flopping towards the half wall sprawled out on the ice?? not many as far as I can recall..

JC has to start putting Seabs in a 3rd pairing role, eliminate him from the pk because we now have Maatta, Murphy, De Haan and Keith that should form a solid 2 pairings of dmen..if we want to utilize Seabs better then only put him on pp unit #2 at times..he still has a heavy shot, not nearly as accurate as prior but he can still tee it up..that is where he can benefit this team. take Keith off the f***ing pp units for good, and when needed put Seabs out there.

if we do these simple common sense things, Seabs does have value here and won't look like a complete albatross on the ice IMO.,

 

[Pez68]

take him off the pk and watch the heat on him drop 50% instantly...

No. He needs to be sat. Hawks spend the entire shift when he is on the ice hemmed inside their zone. He's not an NHL defender at this point, and I would take, quite literally, any other defender in the system over him.

Q scratched him...once. I also don't get the humiliation aspect of this. Hawks don't need to say a damn thing about putting him in the press box. It is clear to anyone with eyes that he needs to spend the bulk of his time there. There's nothing to say about the A, either. A guy in the press box doesn't wear an A.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Q sat him once to be fair.

Yeah, more than JC. He also limited his minutes a few times, which is all we are asking.

 

[Muffinalt]

Rewatching the game, Seabrook really was the cause of like 80% of the problems (from defensemen, ignoring forwards). He makes so many blunders, its like his thinking slowed down.

But the problem is if we want to limit his minutes, we need two pairs that can handle all type of situation matchups. And right now Keith and Gus are getting offensive draws. I agree that putting Keith and Seabs on the bottom pair and giving them low minutes could be a solution, but do you want those two together? Would be an issue too, Keith cant cover for Seabs that well in this system.

Cant wait for next year when Mitchell and Boqvist will likely push him out.

 

[AmericanDream]

No. He needs to be sat. Hawks spend the entire shift when he is on the ice hemmed inside their zone. He's not an NHL defender at this point, and I would take, quite literally, any other defender in the system over him.

Q scratched him...once. I also don't get the humiliation aspect of this. Hawks don't need to say a damn thing about putting him in the press box. It is clear to anyone with eyes that he needs to spend the bulk of his time there. There's nothing to say about the A, either. A guy in the press box doesn't wear an A.

he is not going to get sat right now, so arguing over it is futile. Seabrook can still provide some value here if he finally gets utilized correctly. JC, Bowman and the staff have to take the damn rose glasses off and realize what he is..a bottom pairing dman, that is a hindrance on the pk to this team. I personally want to see Seabs sat for stretches but I just know it isn't going to happen, but as long as we continue to utilize this guy incorrectly it will only make things worse for him and the fans views of him. if you take him off the pk, it helps ease Seabs minutes and role...14-16 minutes a night with some power play time is what he needs to be getting..we saw that Seabs does play better with less minutes yet we still treat him as a top 4 dman which is baffling. maybe De Haan coming back will help that decision for JC, but Seabs is on this team right now and will be playing so might as well use him the best we can and that is to limit his overall minutes, take him off the pk and put him on pp2 replacing Keith...

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Rewatching the game, Seabrook really was the cause of like 80% of the problems (from defensemen, ignoring forwards). He makes so many blunders, its like his thinking slowed down.

But the problem is if we want to limit his minutes, we need two pairs that can handle all type of situation matchups. And right now Keith and Gus are getting offensive draws. I agree that putting Keith and Seabs on the bottom pair and giving them low minutes could be a solution, but do you want those two together? Would be an issue too, Keith cant cover for Seabs that well in this system.

Cant wait for next year when Mitchell and Boqvist will likely push him out.

Hawks cost themselves the game...Dumb penalties by Kane and Shaw lead to 2 pp goals. Seabrook was a total disaster all game and accounted for at least a goal. He needs to play like 12 minutes max...

 

[Muffinalt]

Hawks cost themselves the game...Dumb penalties by Kane and Shaw lead to 2 pp goals. Seabrook was a total disaster all game and accounted for at least a goal. He needs to play like 12 minutes max...

Well at least now after JC split Keith and Gus we have two pairs that are all situation, and we can theoretically reduce Seabs minutes. Just sucks that one of our best d Maatta has to suffer reduced icetime too because of this.

 

[Pez68]

he is not going to get sat right now, so arguing over it is futile. Seabrook can still provide some value here if he finally gets utilized correctly. JC, Bowman and the staff have to take the damn rose glasses off and realize what he is..a bottom pairing dman, that is a hindrance on the pk to this team. I personally want to see Seabs sat for stretches but I just know it isn't going to happen, but as long as we continue to utilize this guy incorrectly it will only make things worse for him and the fans views of him. if you take him off the pk, it helps ease Seabs minutes and role...14-16 minutes a night with some power play time is what he needs to be getting..we saw that Seabs does play better with less minutes yet we still treat him as a top 4 dman which is baffling. maybe De Haan coming back will help that decision for JC, but Seabs is on this team right now and will be playing so might as well use him the best we can and that is to limit his overall minutes, take him off the pk and put him on pp2 replacing Keith...

It's not going to help, because the Hawks don't have a pairing that can eat 25+ minutes a night. The NHL is really moving away from that, anyway. More and more teams are spreading the icetime out on defense. Hawks need to do the same. The only way you can do that, is by putting Seabrook in the press box. He's going to struggle with anything more than 12-14 minutes a night. And the rest of the D will struggle if the third pairing is only playing those minutes.

I disagree about him on the PP as well. He doesn't move well enough or make quick enough decisions to be on the PP.

The only way I see it working, is running 5 D, and rotating Seabrook in to spell guys, in non-critical situations.

 

[AmericanDream]

It's not going to help, because the Hawks don't have a pairing that can eat 25+ minutes a night. The NHL is really moving away from that, anyway. More and more teams are spreading the icetime out on defense. Hawks need to do the same. The only way you can do that, is by putting Seabrook in the press box. He's going to struggle with anything more than 12-14 minutes a night. And the rest of the D will struggle if the third pairing is only playing those minutes.

I disagree about him on the PP as well. He doesn't move well enough or make quick enough decisions to be on the PP.

The only way I see it working, is running 5 D, and rotating Seabrook in to spell guys, in non-critical situations.

Seabrook or Keith on the pp?? that is my point...

 

[Pez68]

Seabrook or Keith on the pp?? that is my point...

Neither.

 

[AmericanDream]

Neither.

agreed, but someone has to do it and Maatta, Murphy and De Haan are not those guys...it comes down to Seabrook or Keith and in my eyes it is Seabs by a mile for the power play..

 

[Hawkaholic]

agreed, but someone has to do it and Maatta, Murphy and De Haan are not those guys...it comes down to Seabrook or Keith and in my eyes it is Seabs by a mile for the power play..

Honestly, I'd rather Maata do it than Seabrook.

 

[Pez68]

agreed, but someone has to do it and Maatta, Murphy and De Haan are not those guys...it comes down to Seabrook or Keith and in my eyes it is Seabs by a mile for the power play..

I would take DeHaan, Maata, or even Gus the full two minutes over both Seabrook and Keith.